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US WARS: Get your facts straight

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posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by byteshertz


The Iraq war:
Initial reason for invasion: The United States and the United Kingdom claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed a threat to their security and that of their coalition/regional allies. After investigation following the invasion, the U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical, and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion.
Aim: stop Saddam Hussein from obtaining weapons of mass destruction
Result: Although some degraded remnants of misplaced or abandoned chemical weapons from before 1991 were found, they were not the weapons which had been the main argument to justify the invasion. A U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical, and biological programs in 1991. Saddam Hussein is executed by the new governement. The war continues.

- Why are you still in this country? Did you stop to think maybe they do not want the peace and democracy your country is trying to force upon them?







[edit on 8-8-2010 by byteshertz]


THey asked us to stay longer in Iraq. So one would think that they wanted us to stay longer. I haven't heard the Iraq government ask us to leave, ever. I've heard quite the opposite, stay longer please.

To my knowledge we've had a great deal of success in our efforts. I'm not aware of anymore successful stateside terorist attacks.

7 out of 10 Afghan citizen support the presence of the uS military. I'd think that means they support us being there.

Sounds to like you care more about what you think those people want than what they actually want. Sad.




posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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Before our ground troops leave Iraq and Afghanistan, we will have plenty of drones in place to take care of business. Pilots in Arizona will still be straffing al-Qaeda.

There'll always be a super carrier near by.

Plus, enough Special Forces/Seals/CIA ops will be around to do the grunt ground work. And probably do it better than a large number of forces.

Private security forces will remain in place. No problem there.

Worse comes to worse, Mossad will go in to clean up a mess.

I don't think there's much to worry about. Not really.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by sdcigarpig


Why is Lincoln revered while Bush is remembered with disdain? Linxoln was willing to do ANYTHING to preserve the American Union, the Constitution be damned.

I'm by no means a Bush supporter, but Americans REALLY need to learn the history of their Presidency, not just what is taught in school books.


Baby, there is a fundamental difference between Lincoln and Bush. Lincoln was willing to do whatever was necessary to "preserve the Union". He was fighting an enemy from within that had a very real possibility of breaking this country half. Lincoln knew that what he was doing was "wrong" legally, but absolutely right, morally. In his mind, and those of historians, he was saving the Constitution by breaking it and putting it back together later. If he didnt do what he had done the Constitution and the country would have been destroyed.

Bush on the other hand, was bending the Constitution out of expediency.(My opinion) He isnt revered like Lincoln because, well scholars are largely Liberal and still have their panties in a bunch over the 2000 election. (Liberals, relax Im kidding. But seriously get over it already. Almost every election is stolen/rigged. Look into JFK winning the 1960 election against Nixon.....he didnt) Anyways Bush is looked down on because the country is so divided and a lot of people just dont like him.

From my view the choices that Lincoln were MUCH more difficult and were made by a man who was deeply conflicted and knew the gravity of what he was doing. Bush's decisions weren't as black and white. (Side note I also dont think "terrorists" ever posed that great of a threat to our country, we have done more harm to ourselves fighting them than they could ever do to us. More people die from Asthma each year than died on 9/11)

As a final point Lincoln's actions have had more than 100 yrs to to be proven right. Bush's are pretty new and the ramification are and will continue to be felt for many years to come. Who knows in 100 yrs Bush may be considered the greatest President we've ever had......as long as they "loose" all footage of his speaking in public





[edit on 9-8-2010 by adamc3]



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 
What's scarey is war has not been declared on any country. A war on a word has been declared and that word is TERRORISM. Here we are trotting through the middle east with our noses in the air like we are on a crusade that benefits ourselves and the rest of the world and dare anyone to stop us from doing 'GOOD'. Is it really GOOD??? It's funny but as an American, I don't feel threatened, afraid or paranoid of anyone but my own government. All the terrorist alerts and media hype have terrorized me more than anything. Not because I believed what they said, but because what they said over and over confirmed my belief they want a One World Government. Call me crazy.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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Well, if you don't like what's going on, why don't you go over there and help that poor country we invaded wrongfully. I believe in war, I believe in what America does. I think America needs to keep up with the bravado of being a tough SOB of a country. If we countinue being the "let's give piece a chance, Obama do your little peace tour", a strong enemy soldiery will invade our country, take our women, and breed a hardier race. Yeah, Chesty helped me with that last sentence.

The reason we're still there is because the moment we finally pull out without making sure the job is done and the threat to the free world, not just the US,that is festering in that area, it'll grow. You think it's just militants like it was in Iraq over there in Afghanistan? No. These are militarily trained men we are fighting. They know us, they know our procedures, they know how we work. There is a threat there that must be stopped. If you don't like it, as I said, go ahead and take a little trip out there, you might not even be heard from again.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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Reading some of these comments
highlights to me how rather a lot of Americans are brainwashed...

...brainwashed to believe their Foreign Policy is something to be proud of..

..brainwashed to believe the world NEEDS America...

...brainwashed to believe they have a right to invade or attack with impunity..

...brainwashed to believe bombing or nuking countries is acceptable...


...and lastly, brainwashed to believe that only Americans know whats going on in American Politics....and living there gives you an insight that "outsiders" have no access to...

Yup...brainwashed!!



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by byteshertz
 


None of your facts are facts. Those are just things reported by the media the powers that be want you to believe.

Our Government went into those countries so we could establish a strong military presence there. The given reasons were just an excuse to pacify the people. Our government wanted in so we could control and manipulate the governments, people and resources.

Truth is the people who run our government are evil sons of bitches who believe they are above the law and can do anything they want.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
Well, if you don't like what's going on, why don't you go over there and help that poor country we invaded wrongfully. I believe in war, I believe in what America does. I think America needs to keep up with the bravado of being a tough SOB of a country. If we countinue being the "let's give piece a chance, Obama do your little peace tour", a strong enemy soldiery will invade our country, take our women, and breed a hardier race. Yeah, Chesty helped me with that last sentence.

The reason we're still there is because the moment we finally pull out without making sure the job is done and the threat to the free world, not just the US,that is festering in that area, it'll grow. You think it's just militants like it was in Iraq over there in Afghanistan? No. These are militarily trained men we are fighting. They know us, they know our procedures, they know how we work. There is a threat there that must be stopped. If you don't like it, as I said, go ahead and take a little trip out there, you might not even be heard from again.


All your words are saying to me is 'I am afraid' 'I am in fear that eveyone is going to take what they were robbed of back'. Why then do the US governments actions not put the same amount of energy in to strengthening its borders first instead of invading other peoples countries.

If US soldiers were not taking 'little trip(s) out there' then they would have a lot less to worry about. Your words show how scared you are of this enemy, and enemy that according to official stories (which no I dont believe but they are the ones I use to keep on topic) managed to kill 3000 US citizens in the 2001 attack, but what you need to realise is nearly 2000 coalition troops have been killed since the war began in 2001. It is now said that over 1300 civilians have been killed so that so far is 2000+1300 innocent life spent to avenge 3000 people. Since the US has been in occupation there all they have done is create a more anger that will result in more bloodshed. What you fail to see is by design this is not a war that can be won, because it will never end - the people you fear are chasing you are real but they are only chasing you because you have killed their family and stolen their life and given them a reason to want to hate you. Whatever version of 9/11 you believe does not take away from the fact people are not born terrorists and are not born hating, they hate when they see their world ripped apart by bullets and blasts.
SERIOUSLY ASK YOURSELF: How would you react if china invaded you because a group in your country killed 3000 of their citizens. American pride themself on patriotism so why can they not respect someone elses.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


I agree, I personally do not believe official versions but these are what I choose to argue with because there is to many differneces of opinion.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by benoni
 


Reading your post makes me believe that there are a lot of people out there that are brainwashed into believing that every single problem in the world is the fault of the US.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by byteshertz
 


I'll be honest with you, I'm an American. Not a Russian, not a Chinaman, not an afghani or Iraqi. Can I not have pride in who I am and where I come from? Can I not feel that what this country does is for a reason? I say all you hear is I'm afraid blah blah. It's not fear, it's called wanting to be the best there is. It's pride. I'll close with this and it may seem pretty messed up to some but I'd rather watch another country decimated than see my fellow countrymen die. Hey, the American government sucks, what government doesn't? At least we're not a county ruled by the military. I've seen a country devastated by a natural disaster and the help that the US and UN were offering sitting off the coast and in a neighboring country denied because the country was ruled by an overbearing overlord that ruled from behind his army to scare his "people" in to submission.

Of course you could just come out and say it; you're jealous of the fact that I have the courage to stand up for what I feel is right. It's cool, when the hippies and liberals take full control of the country and America falls because of weakness, I'll be able to die happily knowing I kept he true strength of America in my heart.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Congress did authorize the use of force via presidential war powers. By granting broad powers to the executive, they easily sidestep their Constitutional responsibilities to declare the country at war.

Via the road, funding for the war is placed into supplemental bills and defense bills rather than a bill solely dedicated to the act of war.

It is a misguided and disingenuous understanding of the president being the Commander-In-Chief. Arguments pro the use of presidential war powers highlight points that the president must be able to act without the bureaucracy and red-tape of the Congress in the face of a threat.

This argument of course is garbage considering the immediate threat posed by both areas of operations where no more a greater threat than Korea or Vietnam (Those wars were fought under the guise of political theory and to fend of communism.)

The correct understanding of presidential war powers is to understand that in case of a sudden invasion or attack upon a holding of the United States, the President would then be authorized to mobilize the military in a small sphere were the threat was to repel such an attack. It was never intended to be extended to the use of full scale military attacks and/or theaters of war.

Another point would be that in order to declare an act of war, congress would have to name the enemy. In the current model, no enemy is declared, but only vague references to whom we are fighting. We are fighting not the people of Iraq, but the Government of Iraq or we are not fighting Afghanistan, but rather the tribal people that call themselves the Taliban.

Declaring war would require a transparent document that explicitly explains to the military and the people who we are fighting, what would need to be accomplished and the terms of surrender if we succeeded. None of those could possibly be met under the 'War on Terror' mantra.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 02:55 AM
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Let me just say that you can't judge all Americans by the actions of our government. What was once the land of the free, home of the brave, is now the land of the slaves, home of the cough potato. Our government is so blatantly corrupt that it's sickening, and yet there are very few of us who actually realize it. There are nowhere near enough support on our side at the moment to even attempt to change. However, one day TPTB will slip up so badly that it will send a wave throughout the country, waking the sleeping giant. My fellow Americans fail to realize the amount of power we have, and one day soon (hopefully) they will join you and me on the front lines, ready to restore the true American way. Give me liberty or give me death. I am no mans slave, and I will fight anyone who tells me otherwise. I'm 20, and let me just say that it seems like a lot of the younger crowd (at least around here) is really starting to feel like something is wrong. It's not too late to take back our country, as long as there is a single man who is willing to fight for freedom and against corruption, then there is still hope. One man can't win a war, but he can start one. America isn't perfect. Our country is still a baby, albeit a very large spoiled baby with a dirty diaper, we still have some growing up to do.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by rimshot
An army is like a football team. If you don't practice, you don't play so good.

War is good practice for when the real thing comes along.





War is practice.
You dont need to practice if you never really stop fighting.





Many think they see this for what it is but they are wrong. War is a industry it has been since after WW2 they need to fight to keep people employed and the masses afraid.


Just like if everyone stopped eating fast food all at once the nation would crumble. We need to fight it is sickening.


Who and why this happened is what we should look at. It is all a game with made up enemies. Just like the boogie man under your bed as a child. Our apathy knows no bounds. Our denial is second to none. We should see this for what it is. Profit based on death. And death allowing fear to rule.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Subjective Truth]

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Subjective Truth]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 03:02 AM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by sdcigarpig
 

Congress did authorize the use of force via presidential war powers. By granting broad powers to the executive, they easily sidestep their Constitutional responsibilities to declare the country at war.

And do these worthies care about the United Nations? Did the UN permit use of force? This Rambo mentality needs to stop right now!



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by OrionHunterX
 


As I consider myself a constitutionalist I would hope that the Congress of the United States, along with the president would not wait for a UN resolution to 'allow' a sovereign state to engage in a declared war.

My point being was that the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan were authorized by congress (nearly unanimously) to grant war powers to the executive. Those war powers were broad and overreaching and in my mind unconstitutional.

If the response was to allow the president to direct the military to engage and destroy all known Al-Qaeda camps, I would argue it would have been a constitutional act in regards to the war powers. But since we all know that wasn't the case, my view is that the Congress was derelict in their duties they swore to uphold and the president (including the current one) is engaging in an unconstitutional act.

All that said, neither Congress, the President or the Judiciary of any sovereign nation be held to the standard of the United Nations. Their governing body is a self-created control mechanism in which the People of a nation have no consent in being governed by.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


The unpleasant facts are that War was waged on a sovereign nation based on lies and exaggerated intelligence (Iraq). There is more than reasonable doubt to assume the War in Afghanistan was also waged on lies and the justification for being there has continually changed as well.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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To put it simply enough, there is no limit to what money can buy. And in this case, they baught the world. I cannot emphasize enough on the harsh and brutal way the American empire is slowly beginning to be a conqueror. This was of course facilitated by the Federal Reserve and all of those who are under the direct influence of their power. Only 6 families in the world have true and absolute power.


Their plans, unknown to most of us, are forcing everyone’s hand into either apathy or war. And someone needs to understand how the world turns before they can actually understand the decisions that are being taken.

You must also understand that technology available to the public and those that were invented in secret, might be something along the line of 100 years in advance.


I believe I am not one to fully understand everything that goes on in the world, and the foreign relations or how they work. But I am pretty sure that money is the top and number one reason any country would back another. Financial gain in either party will make enemies seem like friends. Take China and the United States, two opposing forces that join together in economic growth. Or at least they used to. And most important, you are trapped in a society that no longer encourages individuals to grow or think. That’s because there are way too many lies all up in a single gift wrap. Tear a part of it and it all comes crumbling down.


IE this site and others like it, being used as datamines, to undermine any credibility people might have. You know those that feel like they are trapped and want to do something about it. All of those people join sites, talk about it on the internet, and everything stays in a nice controlled environment. A few trolls here and there and you can convince everyone that its not worth doing anything because you don’t have any proof. And voila you change public perception.


And this site does not even have to be run by anybody really much related to Masonic influence. All that needs to happen is some outside influence influencing the site in any way, and the Echelon system monitoring the site for keywords, and they already know which ones of us are really dangerous. When that happens they send over their “minions” to influence public opinion in the same way they do it on tv.


That is how you control. And then you put up a nice little TV show that shows your news, and controls the information even further. So far much that you are overwhelmed by the information. Public pressure hits you hard even with a high esteem of yourself. I mean try telling your buddies that you don’t listen the news and never read from the tabloids because they are all lies. You will see what I mean. Maybe half of those people will start arguing with the other half on how valuable their vision is.


And it is true what they say; we are all sheep, at our own times. Don’t take it personally. It’s not just one of us. It’s all of us. They surround us with so many different media, that it’s impossible not to fall for at least part of the lie.


But there is good news. They have cried wolf so much, that either part of the big lie will expose them all. The American People do not need a revolution against the system, because the system is not at fault, it is the people that are using the system that have corrupted it. And those same people that will wait and do it all over again. The problem is those with the power behind the politicians and the war industry. Those are the dangerous people. They hide behind others so that they are not fully recognized.


The U.S is into war since the beginning, and since it realized that it needs war in the current structure, for economic growth. (iron mountain report) In no way ,is it possible, to undermine this pattern of thought. As it affects every other society that currently depends on the U.S. And neither you or me can change this. They have total control over how we can live our lives. So in fact they do control our lives.


But not in everything.


The freewill and determination of someone can never be baught. Someone who does whatever is needed and doesn’t believe in it, will eventually rebel. And guess what, a lot of people do not believe anymore.


Now the events of 9/11 have forced public opinion in a way that is hard to change. People seem to think that the “terrorists” were alone responsible for the attacks. And I’m sorry, so much information available right now, seems to point out the bush administration, the covert intelligence agencies, and some of the imperial war complex industries and oil societies , as all being the closest allies in the “terrorists” plot.


I say look into all the words that are automatically searched by the Echelon system. They are at least a starting point into what can be a very big gift wrap, that we can shred together.


www.theregister.co.uk...


interesting to see that UFO’S KENEDY, INFOWARS, ELITE POLICE UNITS, OIL, FREE ENERGY, are all of the words they search for…. Must be because the CONSPIRACY is nothing but a word they use to categorize….. US.


Best regards.

(ohh and thanks for that password change someone did on my account I really apreciate that )



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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The Chinese, Russians, Indians and Pakistanis now own the copyright on the 'Rambo Mentality,' and they are doing pretty dang good with it.

While America backslides into political correctness.

Gee, what was that sound I heard? The lights going off throughtout America? Well, at least we are being polite about our downfall and capitulation to the other nations.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Deuteronomy 23:13

Originally posted by works4dhs


We did have fatal terror attacks after 9-12-2001: The anthrax murders were considered terror.

Over 5000 more americans died in Bush's stupid wars and close to 30,000 severely maimed. Not to mention all of the poor people who became collateral damage. I would guess that to you justice means killing innocent people. The wars (all wars) are stupid and have accomplished nothing but more destruction.

If bush and Cheney had been awake on 9-11 instead of being a couple of incompetent idiots there would never have been any reason to have the wars in the first place.

You disgust me and your thinking sucks.


so we'll stay home and sing kumbaya and wait for the Islamofascists to kill and terrorize us? let's just surrender now rather than fight? and let the Sharia fanatics take the US over? (won't be any gay marriage controversey will there?)
if Bush and Cheney were asleep at the switch, what was Clinton for the previous 8 years when they planned this?
'all wars are bad'? including defensive wars? if not for war we might be members of the Third Reich.
I appreciate the desire for a world in peace, but it takes all parties for peace. if only one wants war, there's war...or submission, which the US is not yet ready for.
sad but true; we must deal with the lowest common denominator. thank God we have some warriors in the country still willing and able to do that for the rest of us. and I repeat, it's better we fight them over there than let them bring the conflict here.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.



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