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Originally posted by Section31
If any of my fellow United States citizens are agreeing with this crap, you have a very cynical perspective of your country. You should acknowledge our country's failures, pick your selves off the floor, and learn from the hell we went through. You should also stick up for your fellow citizens, and stop moping around because things went wrong.
Majority of these ATS foreigners who are bashing your country are hypocrites. None of them have the guts to pick up a weapon and fight for what they believe to be just. Instead of allowing our fellow US citizens to learn from such mistakes, ATS foreigners are bashing our country's government into the next millennium. Sure, we have issues to deal with, but what gives these hypocrites the right to kick you while we are down.
Stand up for yourselves for god sakes. Be proud of your country.
God bless the United States.
[edit on 8-8-2010 by Section31]
Originally posted by Section31
Majority of these ATS foreigners who are bashing your country are hypocrites. None of them have the guts to pick up a weapon and fight for what they believe to be just.
Originally posted by byteshertz
I know this has all been said before and I am sorry for dragging you all through it again but something is not sticking in the minds of some people. I am all for having your own opinions but they should at least have a basis of fact. I have nothing against American people and love you all like brothers and sisters but I direct this squarly at the American public in general because you are the one's that can make a difference, you are the one's not taking action and you are the one's that don't know the facts - so I am going to put 3 key areas of fact below that you need to get through your head before you continue to embarrass yourself and frustrate the rest of the world (it's like talking to people from the movie idiocracy)
To those American's that do know the fact's I am sure you are as frustrated by this as I am and I appologise for the blanket comments.
FACT:
The Afghanistan war:
•Initial reason for invasion: Response to the September 11, 2001 attacks on the US.
•Aim: was to find Osama bin Laden and put him on trial along with other Al-Qaeda members. Another aim was to end Al-Qaeda as an entity and remove the Taliban regime in Afghanistan which harboured the terrorist organisation and supported them.
•Result: After 10 years Osama has not been found and the number of "terrorists" groups have increased since occupation. The war continues.
- Your COUNTRY attacked another COUNTRY because a group of PEOPLE in that country were the ones your government claimed attacked you. How will you know when you have won the war? How many lives are you willing to take to stop this group of people?
The Iraq war:
•Initial reason for invasion: The United States and the United Kingdom claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed a threat to their security and that of their coalition/regional allies. After investigation following the invasion, the U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical, and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion.
•Aim: stop Saddam Hussein from obtaining weapons of mass destruction
•Result: Although some degraded remnants of misplaced or abandoned chemical weapons from before 1991 were found, they were not the weapons which had been the main argument to justify the invasion. A U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical, and biological programs in 1991. Saddam Hussein is executed by the new governement. The war continues.
- Why are you still in this country? Did you stop to think maybe they do not want the peace and democracy your country is trying to force upon them?
DO YOU SEE ANY WAY YOUR COUNTRIES GOALS CAN BE ACHIEVED THROUGH WAR WITH EITHER OF THESE COUNTRIES?
And lastly before this word comes up a million times...
• Terrorist: a radical who employs terror (panic) as a political weapon
- Thats right! nothing to do with nationality, groups or weapons. It is a label that can be used by someone to label someone else without any evidence so IT MEANS NOTHING!
IT IS ONE LEVEL OF STUPID TO JUSTIFY STARTING THESE WARS BUT IT IS ANOTHER LEVEL OF STUPID TO STILL JUSTIFY THEM APPROACHING 10 YEARS ON WHEN THE INITIAL REASON FOR WAR IS NO LONGER VALID
Edit to fix format - apologise for spelling to tired to edit.
[edit on 8-8-2010 by byteshertz]
Originally posted by jam321
IMO, the aim in both facts 1 and 2 was achieved.
In fact 1, you can't put dead people on trial.
Al-qaeda has been eliminated. What you have now is a bunch of wannabes as well as government officials who continue to use the group as a reason for continuing the war.
Taliban was removed.
In fact 2, Saddam cannot obtain weapons of mass destruction since he is dead.
The problem is the results. Once the US military achieved their goals, the military should have been withdrawn. Covert operations and diplomacy should have taken over.
IMO, a military isn't meant to be in a long dragged out war.
Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by byteshertz
I share your frustration but there is one area where you are mistaken. The American people can do nothing with their government and the powers that be. Election time and voting is a joke. The Constitution is almost history and the time for the American public to react to an extent that would make a difference is long gone. We are on a downhill slide on a slippery slope and the only thing that will stop us now it hitting the bottom.
Seeashrink
We are still in the country because we have an obligation to be. We could easily pull out and let the country go to waste. But....we do have morals.
i assume you live in a western world. I wish that there was a way for countries to be successful based solely upon how hard they work, and how moral they are. I wish there was a way for us all to get along. I wish i could stop the endless bloodshed.
i assume you live in a western world. I wish that there was a way for countries to be successful based solely upon how hard they work, and how moral they are. I wish there was a way for us all to get along. I wish i could stop the endless bloodshed
But for those of us who live in reality, we must realize that if we want to live in a world with an infinite supply of peace, we must be willing to give up our entire lifestyle
Are you willling to give up your house/apartment? Your car? Your television? Your cell phone? Your computer? Most of the clothes on your back? An insured supply of food?
I ask this, because if you live in a western world, you HAVE benefited in some way because of your relation with the United States in some way.
Originally posted by neo96
to the op im sitting here wondering if you would have the same views of the past world states:
spanish,iberian,empire,british,french,german,egypitan,islamic,mongolian
persian empires............... everyone is so quick to jump on america
but if you look at how truly brutal past countries have been,past wars have been......
to me you just cant justify your antiamericanism to me.
...."let he who is without sin cast the first stone........"
feel free to disagree...but i see this thread for what it is.
[edit on 8-8-2010 by neo96]
Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by rimshot
Ok, you practise killing people, then you go out and kill people?
The Army is immoral.
War is immoral.
Countries who wage war are immoral.
Originally posted by byteshertz
The Iraq war:
•Initial reason for invasion: The United States and the United Kingdom claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed a threat to their security and that of their coalition/regional allies. After investigation following the invasion, the U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its nuclear, chemical, and biological programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion.
•Aim: stop Saddam Hussein from obtaining weapons of mass destruction
Bush decided to invade Iraq in April 2001, six months before September 11th, and the official reason was to improve Western access to Iraqi oil.
"President Bush's Cabinet agreed in April 2001 that 'Iraq remains
a destabilizing influence to the flow of oil to international markets
from the Middle East' and because this is an unacceptable risk to
the US 'military intervention' is necessary."