Anti-gay homophobes - what country would you choose?, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 02:19 PM by halfoldman
reply to post by sdcigarpig


Great post, with some crucial insights!
But:
Iran or Zimbabway? Neither, Iran is a theocracy, with no real rights for anyone else, and the other is slowly changing and an unstable government, and both are in a very volatile part of the world.

How is Zimbabwe in a volatile part of the world?
It's neighbors are the most stable, well-off democracies in Africa.
Its homophobia (first voiced by Mugabe in the late 1990s) is its most volatile danger, I'd say.


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 02:22 PM by Schrödinger
reply to post by halfoldman



I agree, all evidence support what you are saying!

Thanks for a good civil debate, it has made me think, so I will retreat for now, and perhaps come back.

S+F for you sir!


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 02:34 PM by halfoldman
reply to post by Schrödinger


Thank you!
And the danger I note with something as ill defined as "homosexuality", is that it becomes a cause to wipe out opposition.
Since most people already find the very idea of same-sex physical contact revolting (outside ritualized sport), it is very easy to falsely attach "gayness" to further fetishes like corprophilia.
The West's own ambivelance towards, and religious views on homosexuality are exported to global regions.
Just like missionaries never intended certain practices linked to exorcism, what is exported on homosexuality can lead to serious human rights abuses.


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 02:49 PM by halfoldman
Originally posted by brutalsun
Originally posted by halfoldman
Alright, homophobia is the focused hatred toward homosexual people.
It is rarely seen as a symptom on its own, but usually accompanies other phobias. A phobia against women and femininity is usually concurrent with it.

Phobia implies a fear of not a hatred of agoraphobia, arachnophobia, hydrophobia. And ism would imply a hatred or at least a point of view... racism, sexism, socialism, capitalism. A hatred of homosexuals is simply sexism and not a phobia. I think what bothers a lot of people is that for the most part, people are modest in their sexuality, they rarely display public affection (teens excluded) and find it highly offensive to see a group running around screaming at the top of their lungs "ACCEPT MY SEXUAL PREFERENCE!" Most people shouldn't and probably DON'T care what you do in the bedroom, just as you probably don't want to know what I do in mine.

So let me flip your question around on you... what country would anti-straight heterophobes choose?

Well, I'd say with homophobia two things are going on:
- a revulsion at contact with the same sex (outside certain ritualized sport, where men "trying to kill each other" justifies their touching)
- an actual revulsion at gay people (usually because they signify the former reaction)
There is also another possibility: straight men sacrifice a lot to be butch and macho. And suddenly, here comes this queen who implies: "Look at me, I'm happy, and all your efforts mean nothing to me!"
It's the ultimate mocking.
Furthermore, femininity is even seen as frivolous in women, and it is even more threatening in men.
There is no country as yet, but just as the Jews (and I think the Roma and Kurds should get) gays, lesbians and transgendered people should be given a country, or piece of land.

For hardcore homophobes I'd say: go to Uganda, Iran or Zimbabwe.


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 03:07 PM by halfoldman
reply to post by brutalsun


I think what bothers a lot of people is that for the most part, people are modest in their sexuality, they rarely display public affection (teens excluded) and find it highly offensive to see a group running around screaming at the top of their lungs "ACCEPT MY SEXUAL PREFERENCE!"

There is nothing modest about heterosexuality, or patriarchy anywhere.
Where is this modesty?
The Playboy Mansion, The Kardashians or the many porn movies of hetero celebs on the web?
Is it in some polygamous scripture?
Gay culture usually follows hetero culture.
So, admonish hetero culture for its lack of modesty and we may follow.

But isn't that the problem? Modern, open gay culture is just one of the things that other cultures detest - but it's just the symbolic tip of an iceberg.


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 04:35 PM by halfoldman
reply to post by sdcigarpig


Fair enough, I see your point.
Although the leaders in the SADEC region would usually be South Africa and Botswana.
What is sad however, is that as soon as one hears that homophobic drivel, a country is going under.
Perhaps gay people are to a social environment what some frogs are to ecosystems - early warning signs!
When states turn to homophobic rhetoric, rest assured some other group is actually intended as next!


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 04:36 PM by Tiger5
reply to post by halfoldman



Well you can tell a lot about any society by the manner in which it treats it minorities.


reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 05:39 PM by halfoldman
reply to post by Tiger5


So true, and of course "minorities" can be manufactured at will.
But what I've never understood - heterosexual women are not a minority.
Yet in a lot of these countries they have virtually no rights, they are sytematically raped and abused, and yet they are one half (at least) of the population!
I mean Grace Mugabe is just as cold-hearted as her hubby.
How does that work?
Why do so many women in these countries applaud their own mistreatment?



reply posted on 8-8-2010 @ 06:14 PM by halfoldman
reply to post by halfoldman


Can there be healthy homophobia?
Take Mel Gibson - once just a "righteous homophobe", now seen as an anti-Semite, racist, wife-beater.
The public image of functional homophobia as an ideal is at an all time low.
The fact that states with official homophobia are the worst dystopias is a further embarrassment.

To many, the fact that the US still wants to wage war against nations when that "conservative" war-like section wants to implement similar policies (as their Muslim enemy) is the biggest joke!


[edit on 8-8-2010 by halfoldman]
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