reply to post by DrJay1975
Thanks for an interesting post, with some vivid examples of what it is about gay behaviour in the US that people are actually opposed to (disinhibited
behaviour at carnivals and designated events).
Despite your moderate position, I think the descriptions (at least from my gay position) of "faithful" fundamentalists and exhibitionistic gays is
Are gay activists the only people to make homosexuality a public issue?
If all the gays went home quietly every single day, would homosexuality disappear from the political and religious discourse?
So we must hope to pass as straight and go home - thinking that an invisibility means acceptance, or has ever achieved anything for us?
I don't think so, homosexuality has become a career-move and an industry for a whole anti-gay/homophobic collective.
I'm certainly not talking about all Christians, just as I hope and assume you weren't talking about all gays. You seem to imply that only 1% of
Christians are clinically homophobic (really, so many more are just parroting slogans?) but you don't statistically contextualize "gay" behaviour.
Do all the gays in America descend on Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras - is it representative enough to justify anti-gay positions?
Homophobes certainly use the more outrageous behaviours at gay events to win support, by painting themselves as "sane" opposition to
But they never stop there. Most of them already believe that homosexuality is not fixed, but is chosen, and that their religious "therapies" can
cure it. When they connect gays to everything disgusting from corprophilia, to pedophilia and even serial killers, beastiality and Nazism they are not
being "honest" or "faithful", but they are in fact bearing false witness. Take the corprophilia videos shown in churches in Uganda (threads on
ATS). Here, they are saying this is what gays (all gays, not a few fetishists) do in the "privacy of their homes". Is it OK for even some Christians
to lie and spread alarmist propaganda?
It's all good and well to say gays are no longer killed in the US (at least not legally). But some of the missionaries from the US seem to support
such laws where they can influence what they can no longer achieve at home.
With a collection of homophobic research tanks pumping out questionable statistics, anti-gay books, sermons and websites, the US fundamentalists are
making an impact on global forces that are increasingly discovering that they can be homophobic. Gay acts are no longer just a judicial issue, but
following the US lingo: homosexuality is becoming a moral "lifestyle" issue. And a "lifestyle" is not fixed, but anything you construct it to be.
It appears that when even American Christian groups are preaching against homosexuality (in a society already regarded as rife with adultery, divorce,
porn and immorality) then anti-gay sentiments should prevail in societies like Iran, that view themselves as morally superior to the "Great Satan"
of the West.
Despite our liberal SA rights and consitution, many regard homosexuality as "unAfrican", and homophobia seems to give Africanists a moral
superiority that they are denied economically.
Fundamentalist Christianity is not a private religion, but a missionizing movement, and in some forms a movement that sees itself as destined to take
command of all levels of society. The US may be advanced enough to handle that, but how these messages are interpreted elsewhere are causes for
concern. In Nigeria there are charismatic US-influenced pastors who've poured acid down children's mouths to "exorcise" their demons.
Here in SA even infants have been accused of being witches by a dangerous mix of charismatic missionizing and local beliefs.
And we do have fundamentalists protesting at gay marches. In fact, they capitalize on gay events - we are their bread and butter. Along with a
minority of pagans, we are the visible, tangible proof to such people that Satanic forces are real, four bits of the Bible are true, and the end times
are upon us.
Interestingly, there was a mother on the radio who has one son who is a more outrageous gay marcher evey year at Joburg Pride, and his brother shouts
homophobic Christian slogans from the side-lines. Makes one think: perhaps there's a gene for attention grabbing behavior, no matter what the
ideology, some people are just exhibitionists? Reminds me a bit of the Fred Phelps brigade. Perhaps that is the core issue in more free societies: can
exhibitionism be banned? Can sexuality, in even suggestive forms be relegated to the private? Is religiously pushing patriarchal heterosexism also one
form of public sexuality, or burning condoms in public?
Isn't religion also filling children's heads with sex all the time?
What kind of discourse is it that tells children to commit to virginity until marriage, or that condoms are porous - isn't that sexual?
This makes me wonder, I've just viewed a program called "Taboo", which showed a Shiite Muslim ritual in which men and boys flog themselves bloody
in public (sometimes even to death). Then I've read in Charles Kimball's "When Religion Becomes Evil: Five warning signs" that Islam is about to
surpass Judaism as America's second largest religion. Considering it's growth (surpassing that of the Episcopalians) will the US allow such rituals
in public (does it already)?
Sadly, this whole scenario does trap a silent majority of Muslims, Christians and gays (many of whom are Christian or Muslim) between extremist
From my experience of coming of age in apartheid SA, I thought I was the only "abnormal" one, and it was my exposure as a teen to some photos of
queer visibility in the US that saved my life (at one point quite literally).
I think that isolating experience drives gays to forms of deliberate visibility - and yes, it does go too far in some cases, but it is a wider issue
for us than just upsetting conservative people.
The day they stop advocating homophobic laws that criminilize me, and stop talking blatant rubbish about gays in public I'll go home quietly.
The day that benign celebrities like Ricky Martin can come out without being accused of pushing an "agenda" down "innocent" straight America's
throat, I'll go home home quietly. The day I don't get hassled for how I speak, or move I'll go home quietly.
Until that day, I'll never be convinced that moderate heterosexuals have my rights or interests at heart, or that anything that gay people do or do
not do can ever make them acceptable to homophobes.
[edit on 19-8-2010 by halfoldman]