Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Evolution is also accelerating. Interesting.

rawstory.com...

reply to post by TXTriker

i have been thinking about a posible ice age to i dont want to derail the thread with the ominis date that we all know 2012 but i think it was on the history channel they had a program looking into it and the evedence points to the aztecs
having an ice age and instead of any fancy planets coming and changing the earth it was more likely to be an ice age

Originally posted by C0bzz
It looks as if there was some correlation between the sun and temperature especially in the years 1980 and 1985. But solar irradiance stays on the same old cycle, CO2 keeps rising, and temperatures keep rising. It is, therefore, only possible that CO2 is causing the warming, not the sun. PREDICTION: 2012, or 2013 will be the hottest year ever due to solar maximum and further increased CO2 concentrations.

I have an issue with your chart. It implies CO2 concentrations have increased about 400% since 1970. Which I don't believe is accurate as it seems too high to me. If you don't have a scale starting at zero you have to say where it starts. I'm kind of annoyed you put in a chart with no number labels.

reply to post by keithallenlaw

we took their word for it that we are causing global warming

We are.

the same thing is happening with the data we are receiving about the other planets

Not really.

I mean, we are being told the other planets are heating up, but are they really?

Not really.

Was the 1st moon landing real?

Yes.

as 9/11 was staged

No it wasn't.
I win.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Whyhi]

I sat in on a lecture given at the UofA (Arizona) as a student a few years ago where multiple climatologists, including some that are world renowned, went to the podium and said that anthropogenic global warming is not real and then proceeded to give their reasons why they were sure.

I don't remember much that was covered though I do remember that 97% of the greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is water! And that of the other 3%, .05% is the total amount of greenhouse gasses that human beings have contributed ever. That's pretty convincing to me that we don't have the capacity to make the shear volume of gas needed to effect the temperature.

Also they talked about how and why so many respected scientists would outright lie about the causes and it was because of funding mostly. If you don't follow gov policy, you don't get paid. They were quite upset and called it government mandated policy not science.

This was all before climate-gate also.

Following the lecture and climate-gate and a little personal research, which included what's in the OP, that was enough for me.

Anthropogenic global warming is a big fat government agenda pushing lie!

Edit for spelling and grammar.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Redwookieaz]

reply to post by Whyhi

no ofence but it seems to me you dont believe in conspiracys so why are you on a conspiracy site or is that a conspiracy in its self

The Russians knew about solar system changes in 1997
www.tmgnow.com...

[edit on 8-8-2010 by margaretr]

Well Al Gore and Maurice Strong can just tax the sunlight now. No problem....

Maybe the warming on Mars is caused by Mars not by the Sun.

Here we present predictions from a Mars general circulation model, indicating that the observed interannual albedo alterations strongly influence the martian environment. Results indicate enhanced wind stress in recently darkened areas and decreased wind stress in brightened areas, producing a positive feedback system in which the albedo changes strengthen the winds that generate the changes.

Our results suggest that documented albedo changes affect recent climate change and large-scale weather patterns on Mars, and thus albedo variations are a necessary component of future atmospheric and climate studies.

www.nature.com...


Maybe the warming on Pluto is simply a change in the very long seasons which Pluto experiences.

“The most likely explanation is thermal lag,” says MIT astrophysicist James Elliot, one of the team leaders. “On Earth, the days are longest in the northern hemisphere near the end of June, but the hottest month is July. Similarly, Pluto may not reach maximum surface temperature until a decade or so from now.”

discovermagazine.com...

The climate on Jupiter is very different from the climate of Earth, it's probably not very reasonable to think that the changes in both have the same cause. Jupiter after all, produces most of its heat internally.

We report differences in aspect ratios, areas and peak velocities of the GRS and the Oval(s) from 1979, 2000, and 2006. Some changes are large, and we discuss their implications for Jovian climate. We compare the areas of the clouds associated with the vortices with the areas enclosed by their outermost closed streamlines, and with the areas of the vortices’ potential vorticity anomalies. Indicators of climate change, such as changes in the mean zonal flow, the vertical stratification and vorticity gradients across the jet stream, are discussed.

adsabs.harvard.edu...

Triton, like Pluto, has a very long seasonal cycle. It's turning summer.

The moon is approaching an extreme southern summer, a season that occurs every few hundred years. During this special time, the moon's southern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight. The equivalent on Earth would be having the sun directly overhead at noon north of Lake Superior during a northern summer.

web.mit.edu...

Total solar irradience has changed very little since we have been able to measure it. While that change may contribute to warming, there are other factors closer to home (on Earth and other planets) which have much greater effects.

Although the inferred increase of solar irradiance in 24 years, about 0.1 percent, is not enough to cause notable climate change, the trend would be important if maintained for a century or more. Satellite observations of total solar irradiance have obtained a long enough record (over 24 years) to begin looking for this effect.

www.sciencedaily.com...







[edit on 8/8/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Either that is a lot of incredible coincidence, or real science.

Hard to say until we can investigate the actual data before any possible agenda driven manipulations, secret emails and fabricated supportive consensus.

reply to post by Le Colonel


Ice core samples, of which reveals a large part of the Earth's atmospheric record tell the real story as well as a cross section of the Earth's strata/stratum. Earth's geological data is the proof one needs to arrive at a conclusion, not the 'word' of man.

The Mayan calendar and other calendars of cosmic origin explains alot as well. Space Is the final frontier. Earth is just a rock, with mankind as a peon in the 'realm' of things. Mankind's creativity, on the other hand, is a precious Gift of the Creator to be shared and appreciated by All.....and it Is.

This data is not so publicized for 'no good reason'.


[edit on 8-8-2010 by Perseus Apex]

I've been saying this for years, that the sun is the cause of our current climate behavior. About darn time -.- Maybe some sheeple will finally wake up.

And oyeah, one more thing, a higher temperature causes a higher CO2 concentration in the air, not the other way around.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by vasaga]

People that deny the effects humans have on the environment make me laugh. It is basically the Creation vs. Evolution argument rehashed.

On one side we have Science with all it's pesky facts and figures, and the other side of the argument is based fully on faith. Faith that you are right and 95%+ of climate scientists are wrong. (The other 5% are just paid shills for the Oil industry, so I am not sure why conspiracy theorists would ever believe what they say, but it takes all kinds to make this world spin...)

For people that rail about Corporatism and evil cabals running the entire world, I find it high-larious that some then believe whatever an Oil company has to tell them about climate change.

reply to post by Crimelab


Just as I find it comical that these enlightened souls telling us mankind is causing the earth to warm must fly everywhere to spread the word and do more than their fair share to contribute to the alleged problem. The "solutions" that have tossed around are nothing more than get rich quick schemes. Would the co2 be as big a issue if we were not destroying the flora on our planet?

reply to post by Crimelab


Well, it's a fact we are polluting the "planet" if you want to call it that. However, the whole climate change issue has been blown way out of proportion. It's not like if you throw a cup on the floor it will cause climate change or whatever. The pollution of our environment has more to do with ourselves than the planet. The planet can take care of itself, we however, are a lot more vulnerable. There are enough animals on this planet that can live in the most hostile environments that would kill us in a matter of minutes. We as humans are very limited in this regard, and we need to watch out what we do to our direct environment to not endanger ourselves.

This sounds simple, but it also goes a lot deeper, especially in the animal department. If you take more than you need, or cause harm for no reason, you are causing some imbalance somewhere, which basically in the end will bite yourself in the ass later. I'm just gonna do some brainstorming here, but imagine if we killed off all seals because of greed or poisoned water or a bomb or whatever. What can happen? Well, sharks and killer whales will have less food to eat, and chances are, they are gonna feed more on humans to compensate, be it directly on indirectly, or, if they die out because of hunger, we will have an increase in squids which will eat more fish and leaving less for us, or whatever. You get it, I hope.

The point is, we need to stop seeing ourselves as separate from the environment. We are directly connected, and even though we have no power to damage the planet itself as a whole (based on climate etc of course, we can blow up the planet with a nuclear bomb, but that's another story), we can definitely damage ourselves if we don't watch out with the flora and fauna. But that is a completely different issue than global warming and/or climate change.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Either that is a lot of incredible coincidence, or real science.

Hard to say until we can investigate the actual data before any possible agenda driven manipulations, secret emails and fabricated supportive consensus.

It would sure be wonderful if we could get a closer look at just how this was happening to other planets in our solar system. Now if only we didn't spend all that money bailing out corporate thieves, and creating wars for the Poppy... NASA might have something to play with.

I guess our future isn't as important as being able to tax whatever might be left of it.

Originally posted by Crimelab
People that deny the effects humans have on the environment make me laugh. It is basically the Creation vs. Evolution argument rehashed.

On one side we have Science with all it's pesky facts and figures, and the other side of the argument is based fully on faith. Faith that you are right and 95%+ of climate scientists are wrong. (The other 5% are just paid shills for the Oil industry, so I am not sure why conspiracy theorists would ever believe what they say, but it takes all kinds to make this world spin...)

For people that rail about Corporatism and evil cabals running the entire world, I find it high-larious that some then believe whatever an Oil company has to tell them about climate change.

Oh no please don't don't ask the deniers to listen to facts collected , correlated, cross referenced by thousands of scientists who are all part of a global conspiracy! I have to admit it is rather amusing to see big oil as part of a conspiracy on one hand and yet the saviour on the global warming "conspiracy"! Oh the irony.....

One of these days people will decide to read things for themselves WITH AN OPEN MIND........and then they will become enlightened (hang on a pigs just flown past my window!). It's why the powers that be hundreds of years ago were against the printed word and the english bible etc etc. God forbid people read and make informed decisions. Shock horror.

Originally posted by C0bzz

Originally posted by Le Colonel
reply to post by C0bzz

 

your graph does not show enough data. Why cant the Earth heat up, um, every 10,000 years or so..

your little graph of 40 years well shows, 40 years of data.. YOU are saying cause the world heating up in your life time, that it will just continue and continue until we all cook?

it will go back down, and when it does, every person like you will start to say or scream in some cases, GLOBAL COOLING.. oh noos :0

I thought people like you could only be poorly educated rednecks?

This is simply an error of logic. The fact that lightning strikes caused bushfires in the distant past, and continue to do so today, does not imply that arsonists never cause bushfires. Also, I take this as an acceptance that total solar irradiate is not rising temperature? It's very difficult to correlate the temperature changes we are seeing today with any factor except rising CO2 concentrations from human activity...

(also, Earth is not Mars)

[edit on 8/8/2010 by C0bzz]

Umm... a trend does not a cause create. "Total irradiance" means what? How much EME reaches the Earth? So if IR emissions rise and UV lowers accordingly, what does that do to total irradiance? And if IR drops while visible and UV increase proportionally what does that do? And which affects temperatures more?

I check this site often and it's because I read his book. I recommend EVERYONE read his book "Not by Fire But by Ice" It will give you a lot of information on how and why things are heating up and it's not all human caused. Most importantly it talks about cycles like the next ice age that WILL come, no doubt.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by TXTriker
Not sure about the "correctness" of information but the following site does have some interesting articles regarding the coming ice age.

www.iceagenow.com...

No doubt, and it should be here in late November.

On some other planets they call it winter, some months will pass and if we survive this ice age, there will be another period of extreme warming.

I don't deny that there is global warming - that much is obvious to any third grader.

However, I believe it is part of an ongoing cycle and that man made emissions have absolutely nothing to do with it, or a minimal impact, at most.

Mankind is at the height of arrogance to assume that we can control a planetary system such as the weather.

I've been saying for years that it's time to look at the data of other planets and large moons in the solar system, as data has been showing for some time that those planets are warming up as well.

We're about to reach an 11 year high for sunspot activity and people wonder why it's hotter the last few years?

One day, supporters of man made global warming will wake up and realize that maybe there is a large, hot, ball of fire somewhere at the centre of the solar system that is causing this to happen.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by babybunnies]