a fat woman in a wheelchair: Primary Narcissism

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she has her excuse. whats yours?


my brother, who is a physical therapist, told me a story recently:

an ungodly obese woman in a wheelchair whose very life depended on her willingness to move her own body refused to GET UP. despite the efforts of three strong men, she continued to cry, "I CAN'T.....I CAN'T GET UP."

it is easy to judge in this case, isn't it? even people that have nefarious or evil intentions (Hitler) are at least attempting to accomplish something. but this woman in the wheelchair has lost the ability to be at cause of anything.


so sad.



in Psychology, we often make reference to Narcissism. what we usually are talking about is Secondary Narcissism. but what this woman is experiencing is called Primary Narcissism. it is the type of feeling in which you wish to return to the womb. you wish to back away from the Evil Curses of the World, and curl up into a ball and go back to sucking off of mother's teat.




the point of this thread, and what i wish to hear about, is this: YOU are the fat woman in the wheelchair.

admit it. you want to judge her, but you are just like her.


you know that it exists within you. no matter how much you would prefer to point the finger at her. you know that it is true:

when you go to bed at night, after stuffing yourself with your selfish delights and enduring the tenuous effects of daily life, you secretly wish to go back to that place (the womb) where you are safe and warm and cared for without any effort to your own being. most times, only those whom we are closest to are actually witness to this alter-persona.


we are scared and infantile at are core.

do you judge this woman?

she has her excuse. lets hear yours:

I was paralyzed at age 12 and was in a wheelchair. though 3 doctors told me I'd never walk again, after 6 months of being wheelchair-bound I started walking again and even walked out the front doors of the hospital. I went on to work carpentry at habitat for humanity in georgia, work my own restaurant for 6 years, and so on and so forth.
who needs a *snip* excuse?


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[edit on 8/7/2010 by maria_stardust]

reply to post by tgidkp


Is she in the wheel chair because she's fat or is she fat because she's in the wheel chair?

I've been heavy my whole life.. but at one point I declared enough to be enough and strapped on my nikes, donned my ipod and literally pounded the pavement.


Of course not everyone can do this. certain injuries and conditions prevent, but most normal people don't get that luxury and are just lazy.

reply to post by tgidkp


Would feeling sorry for her, be a judgement?

Maybe she has a glandular problem, or a hormonal imbalance. Without knowing the person, to know exactly why she is they way she is, in a wheelchair, I would not judge her for being obese. The fact she can't get up, even with the help of 3 men, doesn't give me a cause to judge either. Perhaps there is more wrong with her, than her weight.

No, it's not so easy to judge her, and her situation. I don't know her, and her medical history.

I've never heard anyone use the term "at cause" but scientoligists.

Confirm, deny?

reply to post by lellomackin


yes, i am a huge fan of the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. although i am not a scientologist and am frankly quite afraid of them. very subtle identification you have made there. well done. but please let us not distract the topic.

great responses so far.


and, yes, no matter WHAT you think: YOU are that woman.

Originally posted by lellomackin
I've never heard anyone use the term "at cause" but scientoligists.

Confirm, deny?

Good question. If it's a scientologist, then this thread might as well of had a picture of Kirstie Alley, who is a scientologist, and almost as fat as the woman in the wheelchair. She's also an admitted over eater!

I'm wondering what type of responses you were looking to get with this thread. First it seems as you may have a issue with either overweight people, or judging people, which in my book are both equally wrong.

To judge a book by its cover is the reason why I disassociate myself from so many, and disappointed that I would see such an analogy from people here on ATS.

Sorry, but this just offends me, and I'm sure others that may be here that may have a similar condition or a physical disability, that may not want to here how people feel about a "fat" woman in a wheelchair.

So, isn't narcissism the feeling that someone is better than someone else? I could be wrong. I don't have a degree or anything for psychology buti do have an interest. Correct me if I'm wrong, too. Unless, you look at it from the perspective of "I'm better than everyone else, so I should be able to return to the womb"...I don't know, maybe I'm barking up the completely wrong tree here. So like I said, please straighten up my thinking. Also, I am not in a wheelchair. I don't intend to be unless something happens to me where I need to be (not including obesity). I am hefty though. I do eat too much, and I've recently gained a good bit of weight. Now, I'm not the type who would just give up and say that I can't do it. But, yeah...I've never been in that situation. I probably wouldn't judge her as much as just say something like "I feel sorry for her, or I wish there was something I could do to help." I don't know. I think that's what I'd do.

Either way, like I said, I don't have an excuse and I apologize for not really answering your thread how you imagined, but you have sort of inspired me to make sure I never need an excuse or non excuse (unless it's something I can't control in some way/shape/form).and in that matter, I would probably never stop trying to walk. Kind of like my flute. I got a renaissance flute and can't play the darn thing worth a bag of poo. But I keep trying. Someday...lol Sooo anyways,

Thank you!


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Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by tgidkp

 

Perhaps there is more wrong with her, than her weight.

the point is that there is much much more wrong with ALL OF US. it is just unfortunate for her that her problems have surfaced up to the level where we all are able to see it for what it is.

but i maintain:


YOU = HER

Reply to post by tgidkp

no- YOU are that woman and you are exhibitng secondary narcissism by projecting that onto the rest of US.
also- l.r.h. made of with jack parson's gf just when parsons happened to die in his exploding yacht. coincidence? you tell me?

bad thread- I vote for its removal.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Given the phrasing of this post my first impression has nothing to do with the woman or the wheelchair. I think they are red herrings... devices to illicit a specific sort of reply.

But that's just my thought.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by tgidkp

 

Is she in the wheel chair because she's fat or is she fat because she's in the wheel chair?

I wonder about this often when I see obese that use wheelchairs to get around.
At a place I used to work, I used to see this very obese woman leaving at about the same time I usually did. She would walk for a bit, find somewhere to sit and then sit and rest. I'd have gauged it seemed to be every 50 - 100 feet depending if there was another place to sit or lean against.

It was kind of sad, but I wondered why she wouldn't do anything about it? I mean some people do have physical issues that can contribute to obesity, but the resting tells me that she wasn't even trying for various reasons. After a couple of weeks she was riding around in one of those rascals or whatever and had a handicapped tag. Sad isn't it?

Though I try not to judge obese people that are wheelchair bound and make assumptions, it is still hard not to wonder.

back before i joined the army i used to be fond of the phrase that "soldiers are freaking stupid." and they are.


then, one day i looked down and found that i was wearing that uniform. (i served in the Army for 6 years.)


the point is that often times, at our VERY CORE, we are the ones that we are trying to point the finger at.


inside of ourselves, we want to simply vanish into the oblivion of masturbatory self-satistaction.


we ALL want to go back into the WOMB.

I thought the silly Freud stuff like trying to return to the womb went out with the theory of penis envy?


There's no deep psychological problem - More than likely her knees and hips probably hurt. It's probably just a bad cycle, the more weight the less she can exercise and the more she can't exercise the more she weighs.


But more important, did I understand you to say it’s better to be someone like Hitler than to be this over-weight?


How are you defining accomplishments? By material changes?

How about just trying to be a good, kind and moral person? That’s a goal many people don’t achieve (hint to author of this post)

Reply to post by tgidkp

are you crazy? you're definitely delusion. I'm not going back into the womb- not only do I not trust my momm but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't fit.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

It was hard telling what you meant but a few posts later I may see what you mean. To get away from obesity, most everyone has the basic psychological issues and anxieties, they just don't "come to surface" like they do for some.

If your's happen to come to surface in the wrong way or an obvious way, then you are singled out. But if others can play it off with anger or finger pointing or something else (even though to me it's quite easy to see through what they are doing) that passes in our shallow society.

But yes, definetly, everyone has the issues they just learn to hide them differently. I've seen people from nearly every walk of life lose their S over very minor issues where very little was at stake.

please stop projecting your realizations onto the rest of us. what are you, like 25 years old or something?


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excuse for what exactly? i have a million excuses for a million different scenario, hy don't you narrow it down for me so i can tell you.

reply to post by tgidkp


Few will understand what you are saying. Most will not want to. Narcissus will not be moved to Understand anymore than that obese lady. Narcissus Must Die! That is the Great Teaching!Narcissus is Unreal, it is only a reaction to fear.Narcissus is Unhappiness and everything narcissus does,money,food,sex,etc., is an attempt at a some kind of consolation.

My excuse:Narcissus is buried so deeply within our DNA like the Alien Parasite attached to a human in Aliens that we cannot remove it.


Da:
We are, in general, un-Happy or, at most, only minimally and temporarily Happy. And our primal drive or motive is the need for Happiness. Each of us is devoted to the futile search for ultimate Happiness. The finite and changing conditions of the embodied self in Nature make Happiness an always temporary and minimal attainment. And the constant experience of Happiness as a temporary and minimal attainment forces us to conceive of Happiness as the ultimate Goal (rather than the always present Condition) of existence. We are active in the pursuit of Happiness (and in despair of Happiness), but we are not simply, always, and already Happy. Only those who are un-Happy seek Happiness.

The Great Wisdom is a matter of the serious acceptance of the Lesson involved in this observation. We do not tend to take it seriously. We tend to think (or both Nature and the conventions of human society condition us to think) that life is somehow a necessary process (given by God, or at least somehow given, and without any alternative). We tend to think that life, as it tends to be, must be embraced. Therefore, we tend to accept the idea that life must be a search for ultimate Happiness, even if the Happiness we actually attain is always minimal and temporary. (And we may even console ourselves with the idea that, if we embrace the futile search for ultimate Happiness in this finite world, we will actually attain ultimate Happiness in some infinite world beyond, after death, or after God somehow intervenes and transforms the universe into a Heaven of Happiness.) But such views are simply the conventions of egoity or non-Wisdom. Wisdom begins when we are no longer inclined to adopt such views.

The beginning of Wisdom is when we are made truly serious by this Lesson of life: The achievement of Happiness is always minimal, temporary, and ultimately unattainable. You cannot become Happy. You can only be Happy. Happiness is not a matter of subsequent action (or seeking) but of prior being. Happiness is Being Itself. Therefore, Happiness must be presently Realized, since It cannot ever be attained on the basis of Its prior non-Realization. Until we take this Lesson seriously, the mere observation of unHappiness in general will only be part of the psychological process whereby we become constantly re-motivated to seek Happiness by various conventional or traditional means. (And those means always correspond to the various possible enterprises of the first six stages of life.)

The Argument I propose is the Argument of ultimate Wisdom. The Way that I Teach, or to which I invite you, is based on a radical understanding of existence. It is not a conventional call to religious belief and spiritual practice, for such beliefs and practices are merely extensions of the usual search for Happiness (via the efforts associated with the first six stages of life). The Way that I Teach is based on a radical rather than a conventional understanding. It is not based on any problem or method of solution to a problem. It is based on seriousness, or the clear observation and profound acceptance of the Lesson of life.





[edit on 8-8-2010 by RRokkyy]