Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

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posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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This is what I was looking for more or less.


thebilzerianreport.com...


My point is the dynamic that drives this is Holocaust guilt. Makes little sense.




posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
Sorry, but you think that Leuchter is an expert in his field??? Seriously? ROFL!!!


Can you without reasonable doubt prove that Fred Leuchter was not considered THE foremost expert in gas chambers and executions in the United States prior to his report and subsequent destruction?

I see you completely ignore my posting of the Zündel trial notes and challenge to you but rather choose to spout more blanket statements. It has now become blatently clear what your true motives are here in this thread.

It certainly is not finding the truth about the gas chambers and the alleged mass extermination of the Jews.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by MoonMine

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
Sorry, but you think that Leuchter is an expert in his field??? Seriously? ROFL!!!


Can you without reasonable doubt prove that Fred Leuchter was not considered THE foremost expert in gas chambers and executions in the United States prior to his report and subsequent destruction?

I see you completely ignore my posting of the Zündel trial notes and challenge to you but rather choose to spout more blanket statements. It has now become blatently clear what your true motives are here in this thread.

It certainly is not finding the truth about the gas chambers and the alleged mass extermination of the Jews.


Oh, you mean this Leuchter - www.nytimes.com... You know, the guy who was charged with fraud and whose machine would have paralysed people and caused excruciating pain before eventually killing them? The fraud?
As for your trial notes I find them to be extremely iffy, as your link is to a document put out by "Samisdat Publishers" who by a strange co-incidence were the same people who printed "Did Six Million Really Die" and other such poorly researched rubbish. So there was a reason why I ignored it. It's valueless.
My true motives are quite clear by the way. I'm tired of people claiming, based on bad evidence and twisted reasoning, that the Holocaust never happened. It did. My grandfather saw it at Bergen-Belsen.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by minafromRio
reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Thanks! How about the other point made. I have read that too. Initially there was a plaque or something at Auschwitz that said 4 million died there. Now the new plaque says 1.5 million died at Auschwitz. How do they deal with these numbers that seem at odds with the story as typically told in the main?


The plaque was taken down years ago. The new numbers are based on better historical studies.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
Oh, you mean this Leuchter - www.nytimes.com... You know, the guy who was charged with fraud and whose machine would have paralysed people and caused excruciating pain before eventually killing them? The fraud?
As for your trial notes I find them to be extremely iffy, as your link is to a document put out by "Samisdat Publishers" who by a strange co-incidence were the same people who printed "Did Six Million Really Die" and other such poorly researched rubbish. So there was a reason why I ignored it. It's valueless.
My true motives are quite clear by the way. I'm tired of people claiming, based on bad evidence and twisted reasoning, that the Holocaust never happened. It did. My grandfather saw it at Bergen-Belsen.


Thank you for confirming your agenda for all to see.

And with regards to the Zündel trial. All exchanges and the Christie cross-examinations are in public court record for anyone to read. The fact that they have been published is because they were extremely important. The publisher who published them is not.

Would you have read the transcripts you would have understood why. The fact you discard them for invalid reasons is another indication you are simply here to derail serious investigation of the questions with regards to the alleged extermination of Jews during WWII and the alleged gas chambers.

For your information: no gassings took place in Bergen-Belsen. Wiesenthal and Yad Vashem concluded there were no extermination camps on German soil. Corpses that were examined by allied field medics showed in almost all cases cause of death to be pectoral typhus. None were found to have been gassed - not a single corpse. Those are facts that also can be easily verified as they are part of public record as well.

For someone who claims to have studied history I would start to ask myself some serious questions with regards to your objectivity.


edit on 23-11-2012 by MoonMine because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by MoonMine
 


What agenda would that be then?



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by MoonMine
Thank you for confirming your agenda for all to see.

And with regards to the Zündel trial. All exchanges and the Christie cross-examinations are in public court record for anyone to read. The fact that they have been published is because they were extremely important. The publisher who published them is not.

Would you have read the transcripts you would have understood why. The fact you discard them for invalid reasons is another indication you are simply here to derail serious investigation of the questions with regards to the alleged extermination of Jews during WWII and the alleged gas chambers.

For your information: no gassings took place in Bergen-Belsen. Wiesenthal and Yad Vashem concluded there were no extermination camps on German soil. Corpses that were examined by allied field medics showed in almost all cases cause of death to be pectoral typhus. None were found to have been gassed - not a single corpse. Those are facts that also can be easily verified as they are part of public record as well.

For someone who claims to have studied history I would start to ask myself some serious questions with regards to your objectivity.


edit on 23-11-2012 by MoonMine because: (no reason given)


I know that no gassings took place at Bergen-Belsen. The fact that so many thousands of people were jammed into such a small place with inadequate food, housing, water and basic medical supplies for the so-called crime of being Jewish is more than adequate testimony to the mental mindset of the animals who were running Germany at that time. That was the point I was trying to make.
edit on 23-11-2012 by AngryCymraeg because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Here is a great video of German Ernst Zundel and Jew David Cole team up and demolish the holocaust myths at the actual Auschwitz camp. If anyone cries antisemitism after watching this video they must be very scared of the truth.
zioncrimefactory.com...
edit on 23-11-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by filosophia
Here is a great video of German Ernst Zundel and Jew David Cole team up and demolish the holocaust myths at the actual Auschwitz camp. If anyone cries antisemitism after watching this video they must be very scared of the truth.
zioncrimefactory.com...
edit on 23-11-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)


The very name of the website says everything about the argument. So, no actual historical facts then?



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
I know that no gassings took place at Bergen-Belsen. The fact that so many thousands of people were jammed into such a small place with inadequate food, housing, water and basic medical supplies for the so-called crime of being Jewish is more than adequate testimony to the mental mindset of the animals who were running Germany at that time. That was the point I was trying to make.


The fact that so many thousands of people were jammed into such a small place with inadequate food, housing, water and basic medical supplies for the so-called crime of being Japanese is more than adequate testimony to the mental mindset of the animals who were running The United States at that time.

(Wartime internment of Japanese Citizens in the U.S.)

The fact that so many thousands of people were jammed into such a small place with inadequate food, housing, water and basic medical supplies for the so-called crime of being German is more than adequate testimony to the mental mindset of the animals who were running The United States at that time.

(Eisenhower's DEF/Rheinwiesenlager Camps 1945-1949)

Shall we accuse the U.S. of mass murder as well?

We could very easily do so given Eisenhower knowingly let German soldiers and civilians starve to death in his scandalous DEF camps. There was no housing for the prisoners and little to no food. Can you guess what happened? Four years. I recommend reading "Other Losses" written by James Bacque.

Deportations and concentrations are WRONG whomever executes them be it Eisenhower or Hitler.
But they are NOT evidence of mass murder - nor do they magically lead to gas chambers.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by filosophia
Here is a great video of German Ernst Zundel and Jew David Cole team up and demolish the holocaust myths at the actual Auschwitz camp. If anyone cries antisemitism after watching this video they must be very scared of the truth.
zioncrimefactory.com...
edit on 23-11-2012 by filosophia because: (no reason given)


The very name of the website says everything about the argument. So, no actual historical facts then?


The only historical fact I see here is the same poster attacking the messenger for lack of arguments, intelligence and morals. I find you have questionable motives and display an absurd lack of objectivity.

Maybe you are angry as your handle suggests? Anger is not a good starting point for objective research you know.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by MoonMine
The only historical fact I see here is the same poster attacking the messenger for lack of arguments, intelligence and morals. I find you have questionable motives and display an absurd lack of objectivity.

Maybe you are angry as your handle suggests? Anger is not a good starting point for objective research you know.


I've found that Holocaust deniers tend to use the same old arguments and refer to the same old people. Zundel is a great example. He was found guilty twice by juries in the 1980's and the fact that he relied on testimony from David Irving is quite telling. Irving's reputation as a historian was destroyed by the libel trial that he stated. I love irony.
As for my objectivity, I have a degree in history and I have noticed that not one serious historian has ever cast doubt on the Holocaust, so pardon me if I look at Holocaust deniers with anything other than scorn.
We have the records, the census information, the eyewitnesses, the plans and the photographs to all prove one thing - the Holocaust happened. The gas chambers were real.
Then there's my motives. Go on, state why you find them 'questionable'. I'm fascinated.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by MoonMine
The fact that so many thousands of people were jammed into such a small place with inadequate food, housing, water and basic medical supplies for the so-called crime of being Japanese is more than adequate testimony to the mental mindset of the animals who were running The United States at that time.

(Wartime internment of Japanese Citizens in the U.S.)

The fact that so many thousands of people were jammed into such a small place with inadequate food, housing, water and basic medical supplies for the so-called crime of being German is more than adequate testimony to the mental mindset of the animals who were running The United States at that time.

(Eisenhower's DEF/Rheinwiesenlager Camps 1945-1949)

Shall we accuse the U.S. of mass murder as well?

We could very easily do so given Eisenhower knowingly let German soldiers and civilians starve to death in his scandalous DEF camps. There was no housing for the prisoners and little to no food. Can you guess what happened? Four years. I recommend reading "Other Losses" written by James Bacque.

Deportations and concentrations are WRONG whomever executes them be it Eisenhower or Hitler.
But they are NOT evidence of mass murder - nor do they magically lead to gas chambers.


Irrelevant - we're talking about totally different countries, situations and people. Plus, did typhus break out in those camps? The DEF camps issue appears to be a reference to James Bacque's book "Other Losses", which has been strongly disputed, to say the least. Bergen-Belsen was an example of the Nazis shoving unwanted people into a camp that was far too small for tm and then being left to rot because they were Jews. It says a great deal about the Nazis and their twisted views of humanity.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Whilst we're on Zundel, here's my favourite wiki entry about him - rationalwiki.org...



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


I posted that link for you dude, I knew you would get pissed at the mention of Ernst Zundel, or David Cole, or zioncrimefactory. I figure one or the other or all three would piss you off. Happy thanksgiving.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


I posted that link for you dude, I knew you would get pissed at the mention of Ernst Zundel, or David Cole, or zioncrimefactory. I figure one or the other or all three would piss you off. Happy thanksgiving.


Ah, so you deliberately trolled your own thread? Interesting!



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Yet another ad hominem attack. Wow. Can you say one sentence that doesn't involve an ad hominem attack?



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Yet another ad hominem attack. Wow. Can you say one sentence that doesn't involve an ad hominem attack?


I would not bother with this poster filosophia, I think he/she has exposed him/herself pretty well.

This is the exterminationalist method of operation:

first ridicule the topic itself
then ridicule the evidence
then ridicule its supporters

...and when that more or less fails simply attack the messengers.

In no way will they address the evidence and discard it with sweeping statements.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Yet another ad hominem attack. Wow. Can you say one sentence that doesn't involve an ad hominem attack?


??? You admitted yourself that you only posted that link to annoy me.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by MoonMine
I would not bother with this poster filosophia, I think he/she has exposed him/herself pretty well.

This is the exterminationalist method of operation:

first ridicule the topic itself
then ridicule the evidence
then ridicule its supporters

...and when that more or less fails simply attack the messengers.

In no way will they address the evidence and discard it with sweeping statements.


Sorry, but what evidence? All the evidence that I have seen and read about states that the Holocaust happened. Every single serious historian agrees that it happened. Irving - who is not a trained historian - destroyed his reputation when he tried to claim otherwise. Holocaust denialism is derided around the world, because it flies in the face of the evidence - of which there is a lot.





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