Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!, page 38
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reply posted on 11-1-2012 @ 06:46 PM by RedBird
I find this fascinating.

There have been so many historical events that are debated, and ways in which people think things happened. So many theories, and ideas, and hypotheses. Typically, the most hotly debated moments in history are the ones for which there is very little data or evidence to analyze -- hence why people speculate.

Which is exactly why holocaust denial is so bizarre.

Go try to find evidence for the Armenian genocide, or Stalin's Ukrainian Famine, or the tens of millions dead in the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution in Mao's China. The evidence is there, but you have to dig for it. These mass murders were covered up well. And their extent can be debated, even today.

But the holocaust was so well documented (by the Nazis, go figure) that I can't even begin to understand people who say it didn't happen. The Nazis kept meticulous records of their atrocities, many of which were recovered before they could be destroyed. There's a trail of paper a hundred miles long proving the Holocaust happened.

Regarding the question of: "Yeah, but HOW MANY Jews?" that seems to be so popular, I will say this:

It is true that the "6-million" figure does not jive with official historical estimates of European Jewish populations, and Jewish populations in Nazi occupied areas.

But it's also well understood that estimates of Jewish populations were typically very low -- especially in Poland, Russia, and Eastern Europe in general, due to ghettoization.

Even if we place the final figure at 3.5-4 million.... what's the debate? Why are we having this conversation? Why do we need to pound our fists and shout and scream over this?

All this artificial "debate" about numbers serves only to provide a forum and pulpit to those who would deny the Holocaust altogether -- and who have, already and repeatedly, in this thread -- why give them a voice? They have no evidence, no justification, and are motivated solely by hate.

It's not even worth our time or effort.

For every 25 threads about the 3-6 million Jewish people killed during the Holocaust, there is maybe one, or two, about the 30 million people killed by Mao in China, or the 14 million Ukrainians starved to death by Stalin. Holocaust deniers themselves like to bring these atrocities up to remind us that what happened to the Jewish people "wasn't as bad" as other genocides. Yet they don't spend their time actually talking about these other massacres, or defending their historical positions. It's just "ammo" in their gun to fire at "Jews."

Debate the numbers, fine. But why are you bothering? There are bigger fish to fry, and every time you stop to debate the numbers, you open the door for and give legitimacy to someone who claims the Holocaust never happened.


reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 03:29 PM by Firsk
I want to say first that I am not the least bit anti-Semitic. I have close friends who are Jewish, and I am sure that they would agree. However, yes, I do think there is something to Holocaust Revisionism. I don't deny that Jews were incarcerated and abused and killed by the Nazis, but there is no evidence of gas chambers or any program of mass extermination. Are you aware that for a long time it was maintained that there were death camps in Germany? Now that has been retracted, and they say the death camps were all outside of Germany. Are you aware that originally it was claimed 4 million died at Auschwitz, but now it's less than 1 million? And of course it's still a lot of people. But, what about the Katayn Forest Massacre which for decades was blamed on the Nazis, when it was really the Soviets? The victors of WW2 wrote the history of it. Never forget that.

But, in light of the above, I want to call attention to Michael Collins Piper's book, Final Judgment, in which he makes the case that the Mossad was involved in the assassination of JFK via crime boss Meyer Lansky. And the reason they wanted him dead was that he would not provide nuclear weapon technology to Israel. After his death, LBJ quickly gave it to them, and they became a nuclear power.

But, regadring the JFK assassination, everything we have been told about it is a lie. Oswald did not shoot Kennedy. He was standing outside in front of the building at the time. Ike Altgens caught him in black and white celluloid as the "Doorway Man" in his famous photo. That was Oswald, not Lovelady, and I can prove it.

Please watch my 5 minute video about it on Youtube entitled Visible Proof That Oswald Was Innocent. I'll give you the link. And please spread the word. A 48 year old state lie is dying. Let's put it out of its misery.

www.youtube.com...



reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 10:16 PM by BRAVO949
Right - then after WWII you French did all these things to the Algerians!

Or are you forgetting that?



Notice, American Trucks, jeeps, tanks, aircraft, univormsd, helmets and bombs just like in Indochina. Let me add that the Zionists in Israel were very much in support of the French return to colonial rule.

Instead of granting the people of Indochina their liberty you went and killed them.

How about the other French colonies in Africa? Did you allow them to have their freedom after WWII?

How many Afghans have been killed by French troops in the last 10 years?

Am I still supposed to feel sorry for you and your grandmother?

Originally posted by Helmkat
My Grandmere is 91 so she can't reply to this thread in person but I will relate her stories to you. She was in occupied France.


-She saw the Jews being rounded up and taken away, she saw them throwing notes and letters, pleading with anyone to contact friends and relatives for them.

-She has one of the star of David patches the Jews were forced to wear.

-Her brother was taken away by the Germans to work in a labor camp. He escaped and upon doing so the Germans showed up at her home to beat her father (my great grandfather) in hopes he would reveal the location of his son. He didn't know anything but that didn't stop the beatings. My Grandmeres brother had joined the underground and didn't return home until the Germans left.

-One one occasion my Grandmere and a friend were forced to shine shoes all night at the local SS office because a German officer thought they had refered to him as "ugly".

While none of this is "proof" per se, I have no doubt that a great evil was brought upon the Jewish people. So deny all you like if it lets you sleep better.

Oh not that it matters but I'm not Jewish.



reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 10:28 PM by jennybee35
reply to post by RedBird


Man, I wish I could give you applause for this reply..........


reply posted on 14-5-2012 @ 03:07 PM by haarp1
reply to post by RedBird


It amazes me how people blindly say ' it's so well documented '. No, it is not. Hence there is debate. If it's so well documented then why is it the only evidence brought forth at Nuremberg are a handful of 'eye witnesses'? The entire claim is based on eye witnesses which later in 1985 redacted their story and used ' poetic ' licenses to write their Holocaust books.

The Holocaust promoters pretend to be rational people but they get emotion mixed up in their judgement and use blind faith to come to their conclusions. Never mind the fact the chairman of the Zionist Organisation Of America wrote during WW2 that only 2 million Jews resided in Europe.


reply posted on 14-5-2012 @ 03:08 PM by haarp1
reply to post by AngryCymraeg


What are you on about you idiot? The claim is that Jews were gassed then burned to get rid of all the evidence. THAT IS THE CLAIM.



reply posted on 14-5-2012 @ 03:14 PM by onthedownlow
Originally posted by filosophia
www.holocaustdenialvideos.com...

Debunk any of these videos, or any points made by these videos. I would really like it if someone was able to do that.

If you need some direction, start with the David Cole video titled "Auschwitz" (below the first video on the homepage).

Some points to draw from the videos that I have never heard debunked before are as follows:

1. Zyklon-B is a disinfectant, which is why there are purple Zyklon-B streaks in the disenfectant room and not the gas chamber.

2. As the David Cole video points out, the gas chamber was a reconstruction, and the famous holes on the top of the roof were added by the museum holders.



I am guilty of not watching the videos, very sorry. I did have a question though- what exactly were the gas chambers used for?


reply posted on 14-5-2012 @ 03:36 PM by ken10
Originally posted by onthedownlow
Originally posted by filosophia
www.holocaustdenialvideos.com...

Debunk any of these videos, or any points made by these videos. I would really like it if someone was able to do that.

If you need some direction, start with the David Cole video titled "Auschwitz" (below the first video on the homepage).

Some points to draw from the videos that I have never heard debunked before are as follows:

1. Zyklon-B is a disinfectant, which is why there are purple Zyklon-B streaks in the disenfectant room and not the gas chamber.

2. As the David Cole video points out, the gas chamber was a reconstruction, and the famous holes on the top of the roof were added by the museum holders.



I am guilty of not watching the videos, very sorry. I did have a question though- what exactly were the gas chambers used for?


Possibly an Air Raid Shelter iirc


reply posted on 14-5-2012 @ 03:37 PM by AngryCymraeg
Originally posted by haarp1
reply to post by AngryCymraeg


What are you on about you idiot? The claim is that Jews were gassed then burned to get rid of all the evidence. THAT IS THE CLAIM.


What a civil post. I said it was one in the eye of the debunkers - who claimed that it never happened and that there were no pits at Treblinka. The fact that there are debunks the debunkers.


reply posted on 14-5-2012 @ 04:09 PM by ken10
Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
Originally posted by haarp1
reply to post by AngryCymraeg


What are you on about you idiot? The claim is that Jews were gassed then burned to get rid of all the evidence. THAT IS THE CLAIM.


What a civil post. I said it was one in the eye of the debunkers - who claimed that it never happened and that there were no pits at Treblinka. The fact that there are debunks the debunkers.


From the article you posted....



As Jewish religious law forbids disturbing burial sites, she and her team from the University of Birmingham have used "ground-penetrating radar".


Convenient

And



The programme's presenter, Jonathan Charles, a former BBC foreign correspondent, wrote in the Radio Times that the ground-penetrating radar had also discovered the foundations of buildings and that two are likely to have been gas chambers.


Readings from ground penetrating radar is not proof of either burials nor gas chambers....and anyone who has seen "Time Team" will know this !!!

Where are the overhead photo's from the allies at the time showing these pits and buildings ?

Maybe this will help...

Air Photo Evidence
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