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Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

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posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
So you do recognize that it wasn't a disseration? At least something.

It was a private paper. It was examined by a court and found to be dishonest and misleading and therefore it qualified as National Socialist Propaganda.

Have you read the report?


Yes, I realize it was a paper, that went against the official story. In order to prosecute for the THOUGHT CRIME, they chalked it up as a National Socialist Propaganda, when it actually stated nothing about such political belief structures.

It was a phony charge for a thought crime.

He was wrong to right it, and his beliefs were wrong.

The prosecutors were wrong to charge him for something that he did not do, in order to control his beliefs.




posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


We must not forget that there are people who survived these camps and I find their stories to be credible. Ive been to several of the camps myself and when you see it in person its hard to deny that something horrific took place there.

My grandmother escaped, although her parents, brothers and sister were not so lucky, and they werent even Jewish.

Either way, you cant help but believe that "history is written by the victorious" and "there are always two sides to every story"



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by PplVSNWO


Eichmann is a perfect example of why you can't use torture to extract confessions. Eichmann signed a confession to killing some 5 million. This Auschwitz, and I already posted a court ruling establishing 300,000 died at is obviously a complete lie, there were nowhere near 5 million killed at Auschwitz.



On what do you base your assertion that he was tortured? Has he said so? What documentary evidence is there for that?
Or rephrased: What makes you believe that he was tortured.

There are 5 major sources when it comes to Eichmann:

- The 1200 still secret Jersualem papers
- The Sassen interview
- The Avnar Less interrogation
- His 127 pages of "memoirs"

What is notable about these sources (minus the first) is that they basically say the same things. His story didn't change from when he was a free man in the 50's (Sassen) to the time they put him on trial. In fact, he is astonishingly consistent on the major points. Historian Wolfgang Scheffler was a witness to the trial and has studied all but the 1200 pages that aren't open. He has illustrated the consistency of the Eichmann testimony in various articles and scholarly works. I can only link to articles due to restricted acess:

www.welt.de...

Also. Can you source the claim of his signing the 5 million document? I'd be very interested in that. Sounds intruiging.

I don't think that Eichmann is generally considered to be the one who "ordered the gassings". His claim to fame was to be an organizational genius. He was responsible for organizing the transport of the Jews (something even revisionists don't deny happened) and other logistical problems and was therefore one of the guys in the Reich who had extensive knowledge about the whole of the Holocaust. (The were, when and also the what was basis for his organizing everything efficiently.).



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by WhiteDevil013


Either way, you cant help but believe that "history is written by the victorious" and "there are always two sides to every story"


I always wonder about the validity of that statement in real life. In fact, proportionaly the work on the Holocaust coming out of Germany is larger than most other countries - especially victor countries like the USA and GB.

But then, there is an argument to be made: You could say that the Nazis lost the war and the history of the Nazis is not written by Nazis. But the people who write history were not generally victors over Nazism. And indeed, many Nazis have written their own history of the third Reich; even the most stringent of laws couldn't inhibit that.

So in the case of the Holocaust this statement doesn't seem to apply. I understand the thought behind it. But it seems so trivial and untrue in this case.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin

Originally posted by PplVSNWO


Eichmann is a perfect example of why you can't use torture to extract confessions. Eichmann signed a confession to killing some 5 million. This Auschwitz, and I already posted a court ruling establishing 300,000 died at is obviously a complete lie, there were nowhere near 5 million killed at Auschwitz.



On what do you base your assertion that he was tortured? Has he said so? What documentary evidence is there for that?
Or rephrased: What makes you believe that he was tortured.

There are 5 major sources when it comes to Eichmann:

- The 1200 still secret Jersualem papers
- The Sassen interview
- The Avnar Less interrogation
- His 127 pages of "memoirs"

What is notable about these sources (minus the first) is that they basically say the same things. His story didn't change from when he was a free man in the 50's (Sassen) to the time they put him on trial. In fact, he is astonishingly consistent on the major points. Historian Wolfgang Scheffler was a witness to the trial and has studied all but the 1200 pages that aren't open. He has illustrated the consistency of the Eichmann testimony in various articles and scholarly works. I can only link to articles due to restricted acess:

www.welt.de...

Also. Can you source the claim of his signing the 5 million document? I'd be very interested in that. Sounds intruiging.

I don't think that Eichmann is generally considered to be the one who "ordered the gassings". His claim to fame was to be an organizational genius. He was responsible for organizing the transport of the Jews (something even revisionists don't deny happened) and other logistical problems and was therefore one of the guys in the Reich who had extensive knowledge about the whole of the Holocaust. (The were, when and also the what was basis for his organizing everything efficiently.).


Exactly. He made the trains run; he was not the final executioner - he "merely" delivered them to their executioners.

See, this is what the deniers do - they obfuscate the truth. They say that Eichmann didn't kill any Jews. Which is correct - he "only" sent them to their deaths. It's like the Creationist tactics - they whittle away at whatever they think is a weak piece of evidence in the hope it will all add up to an unbalanced Jenga tower. Unfortunately, the mountains of evidence add up the an official campaign of genocide against Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, political prisoners, etc. They managed to tap at one plank that barely moves, then they claim victory. JENGA!


During cross-examination, prosecutor Hausner asked Eichmann if he considered himself guilty of the murder of millions of Jews. Eichmann replied: "Legally not, but in the human sense ... yes, for I am guilty of having deported them". When Hausner produced as evidence a quote by Eichmann in 1945 stating: "I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction." Eichmann countered the claim saying that he was referring only to "enemies of the Reich".

* Great World Trials; The Adolph Eichmann Trial 1961 (1997) pages 332-337.


Looks like he owned that quote, which he made 3 years before Israel even existed. Did Mossad travel back in time to torture him?
And according to Nazism, Jews were "enemies of the Reich."

[edited to add the following]


* Hätten wir 10,3 Millionen Juden getötet, dann wäre ich befriedigt und würde sagen, gut, wir haben einen Feind vernichtet. ... Ich war kein normaler Befehlsempfänger, dann wäre ich ein Trottel gewesen, sondern ich habe mitgedacht, ich war ein Idealist gewesen.
o If we would have killed 10.3 million Jews, then I would be satisfied and would say, good, we annihilated an enemy. ... I wasn't only issued orders, in this case I'd have been a moron, but I rather anticipated, I was an idealist.
o Post-war correspondence with Willem Sassen om Eichmanns Memoiren. Ein kritischer Essay (Zuerst 2001) Frankfurt/M.: Fischer TB, 2004 ISBN 3-5961-5726-9



[edit on 8/9/10 by mothershipzeta]



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by __rich__

Originally posted by fapython

Hate to burst your bubble but actually international jewry did declare war on Germany. Here is the newspaper extract of the declaration.

...

With this international declaration , it is fair to say that all jews could be considered combatants/ potential enemies, therefore giving credence to their being incarcerated in concentration camps, as the english did with the suspected sypmathises, and the americans did with the japanese.


Do you have any more evidence of this "War on germany"?

Not to mention, it comes from no actual Nation. "International Jewry"? Huh?


You're arguing with someone who uses tried and true anti-Semitic jargon. Of course he'll come to the defense of the poor Nazis.

Don't waste your time on such a sad excuse for a human being.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by mothershipzeta
 


Auschwitz museum states that the gas chamber was in original shape. The director of the museum, in part 2 of David Cole's documentary, states that while the camp was being bombed, the gas chamber was not destroyed, and was actually used as an air shelter. Walls were added and then later removed, but the floors and ceiling were original, so the residue would be visible on the ceiling.


I never said it was BOMBED. I said that the gas chambers were destroyed by the retreating Nazis. Try again.

There was a documentary with the gas chamber expert-turned-revisionist (can't recall his name) who went into what was left of the destroyed structures - again, left to the elements for 50 years or so - and didn't find any traces. Imagine that.

But, just for you, here are Zyklon-B traces in the Majdanek gas chambers. Care to explain those away?

[edit on 8/9/10 by mothershipzeta]



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Debunk the tattoo on my grandmothers forearm, debunk the countless nights she awoke screaming because she had nightmares about seeing her entire family shot dead.


I can't believe people honestly believe that the Holocaust didn't happen.

I guess you are so lucky that you or no one you know was on the wrong side of a atrocity of war. Kudos for you.

Don't be afraid to open your mind, i promise your brain will not fall out.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by mothershipzeta
 


Thank you very much for your contribution. IMO this shows that the guy who posted this is either really, really dense or lies on purpose.

Good to know where the 5 million number came from. I was already worried because I never heard that the Israelis got that out of him. It would have surprised me greatly.

But yeah, maybe the "Zionist Cabal" not only controls ANY and ALL historic research but also time itself. Indeed - then they probably went back to the second world war to torture a confession out of Eichmann. They probably decided that killing Hitler or Himmler was detrimental to their goals...

Sheesh....

Thank you very much for your contribution.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
On what do you base your assertion that he was tortured? Has he said so? What documentary evidence is there for that?
Or rephrased: What makes you believe that he was tortured.

I base that assertion on him "admitting" to wild claims that where known to be false well before his trial.



Also. Can you source the claim of his signing the 5 million document? I'd be very interested in that. Sounds intruiging.

Yes, it was in that link in my post you are quoting, but here it is again, and a sources of the claims:

Nevertheless, in 1960, a record allegedly derived from Eichmann's comments in 1955 to a highly dubious associate were to be accepted as definitive memoirs. They were designed to prove, of course, that "the unregenerate Nazi" Eichmann was every inch the fiend that be has been depicted. A disarming attempt to make them seem authentic was furnished by the touch that Eichmann did not say what his cohort, Hoettl, claimed at Nuremberg that he had said about the alleged killing of millions of Jews (Time, June 6, 1960, reported Eichmann had said five million Jews; Newsweek, June 6, 1960, claimed he had said six million).



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by NichirasuKenshin
 





- The 1200 still secret Jersualem papers


I found this very intriguing, are you saying no-one has seen these papers ?

Does anyone know what they refer to ?



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by ken10


I found this very intriguing, are you saying no-one has seen these papers ?

Does anyone know what they refer to ?



Yes. Some people (Israeli Gov/Mossad) have allegely read them but that was in the 60's. Eichmann wrote these pages while in jail waiting for trial or after being convicted before being hanged. We know the general outline of the writings: it's his memoirs, 1200 pages long. They were sealed after his death.




www.jlaw.com...

While sitting in the bowels of Israel's penal system, Adolf Eichmann - arch-perpetrator of the Final Solution - put pen to paper in 1961-1962 and wrote memoirs spanning some 1,200 pages. Thirty-seven years later, these memoirs, which then Israeli prime minister David Ben-Gurion ordered buried in the national archives, are at the center of a debate: who should publish them, in what manner, and why.




posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by NichirasuKenshin
 





You can not hold a monopoly on historical truth. The sources are there. The evidence is. The "Jews" do not have the means nor the power to "keep the lid" on anything concerning WWII. Academia is free. There's no way to totally surpress scientific inquiry.


Which world do you live in?

Nowadays anyone questioning the fairytale can expect to be ostracized, financially and professionally ruined, have their books burnt, their websites removed and be sent to jail for a number of years.

Holocaust denial laws alone therefore prove your above statement to be ridiculous. 'Absolute Nonsense.' as you so aptly put it.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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60 million people are dead - isnt that bad enough without debating whether 300,000 or 3 million people were gassed ? It's still just as bad no matter what the numbers really are.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Yissachar1
 


Thank you for helping to point out the reasoning behind the holocaust industry.
Decades ago people who may or may not have been related to me may or may not have killed people who may or may not have been related to you (I am not permitted to attempt to investigate the truth of this statement but must simply take your word for it) and so therefore I, who was not involved with this is any way somehow owe you for something you were not involved with in any way. The amount of that debt to be determined by you.
As silly as this may sound when stated bluntly without the politically correct trimmings, the most ridiculous part is that you actually believe you should be taking seriously when making this claim.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by circuitsports
60 million people are dead - isnt that bad enough without debating whether 300,000 or 3 million people were gassed ? It's still just as bad no matter what the numbers really are.

When you take into consideration all the Zionist have used and continue to use the Holocaust as justification for, this becomes a huge issue. The truth is the truth, why would you not want the truth to be known(unless you are a Zionist of course).?



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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More inconsistencies,




When Hausner produced as evidence a quote by Eichmann in 1945 stating: "I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction." Eichmann countered the claim saying that he was referring only to "enemies of the Reich".


From mothershipzeta' post




He was head of the Department for Jewish Affairs in the Gestapo from 1941 to 1945 and was chief of operations in the deportation of three million Jews to extermination camps


From Here

Also what is meant by this.......



where he stood trial in Jerusalem for crimes against humanity and the Jewish people


Why would jewish people be different from the rest of Humanity


And finally,
Why would Israel keep Eichmann's memoirs secret ? If they have "Lies" within them, then it should be left to revisionist's/historians to debunk them, moreover they could validate other pieces of history not fully documented.

It just puts more question marks on the story that is the holocaust.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by circuitsports
 


The straight answer to your post is: Because it is the 300,000-3 million that are remembered under the term Holocaust.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


You do not understand that you now qualify as a Denier. I know because I have been labeled as one and I agree with you. The Nazi's did terrible things. But your grandmother was not Jewish. They rounded people up. But not Jews only. They sent people to concentration camps. But not Jews only. They murdered people. But not Jews only.
Yes there was a holocaust
It was not a Jews only holocaust
It is the idea of a Jewish holocaust I argue. That a holocaust occurred? Yes? Who's arguing?
There are children who will be called liars when they say their grandparents died in the holocaust. They must be liars. They are not Jewish. This is what I object to.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by Puck 22
 


I've gotten some raised eyebrows when I tell tales of my grandfather and his family, and how much of that side of my family was executed during World War 2. I've been surprised by many-a-people to find the masses actually believed only the Jews were in the camps and ghettos.



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