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Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

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posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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I am awaiting the post that will attempt to justify the Holodomor more then anything.

The one that states the Russian government was not controlled by fake jews at that time etc.

Come to me!

Use all of the tricks of the debate trade and be as uncivil as you wish simultaneously as I am above it unlike many posters here with many stars by their names who cry like babies when someone erects a strawman rather then relish in the pleasure of dismantling it!

Many have met their match or even their superior yet the fragile egg like ego prevents them from ever realizing it thus much of what I or others like me say here is as dust in the wind yet sometimes, that dust gets in the eyes of those who seek only to dominate and then it would seem our time was well spent.




posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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www.fpp.co.uk...

Altogether nearly 300,000 people from the most different nations died in the Auschwitz concentration camp.

From 1947 trial, 300,000 people total where determined to have died in Auschwitz. Not even 300,000 Jews, 300,000 people total. This is more inline with that link I posted on the Crematoria study that hope is being digested, then the "official" numbers.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Studenofhistory
I have been on both sides of the Holocaust denial fence at various times in my life depending on the information I had at the time. My current view on the Holocaust issue is the result of several books written by controversial british historian David Irving. He is famous for his meticulous research and also infamous for his conclusions about what did and did not happen during WW2 in Germany. Based on unprecedented access to memoirs, personal notes, diaries and personal interviews with Germans in key positions during the war, including generals, Hitler's personal secretaries, etc. plus access to both public and classified archives in England, Germany and Russia, here are some of the conclusions that have gotten Irving arrested on charges of holocaust denial.

Hitler's intent, stated both publicly and privately, was that European jews should be resettled elsewhere. The first destination was the island of Madagascar. 15,000 pages of documents talk about sending jews to Madacascar. Then when the war stared, he decided to resettle the jews in (first) Poland and then later in occupied Russian territory. There is no evidence that he wanted jews killed en masse. On the other hand, neither did he object to reports of SS officers exceeding their orders and killing isolated groups of jews on their way to resettlement camps in the east.

The leader of the SS, Himmler, more than once told his subordinates, that he took the responsibility on himself to order the execution of large numbers of jews AND went to great lengths to keep Hitler in the dark about this decision.

Systematic execution of large numbers of jews didn't start until late 1942/early 1943 and ended by late 1944. Halfway thru that period, Himmler received a status report that showed that approximately 1.25 million jews had been 'resettled' ie. killed. It is therefore reasonable to extrapolate that for the entire period and conclude that 2.5-3 million jews were killed in a systematic way(mostly by shooting, not gas chambers).

This lower figure is very close to the number you get when you take the 6 million number and adjust it for the decrease in jewish deaths attributed to Auschwitz, which officially went from 4 million to 1.5 million. Subtracting 2.5 million from 6 million leaves you with 3.5 million.

So the bottom line for me at this point in time is that yes jews were systematically killed by the nazis, that 2.5-3.5 million were killed and no, gas chambers were not used for killing. Does it matter if the number is 2.5 million instead of 6 million? Yes I think it does. The truth is horrible enough. It doesn't have to be exaggerated and the German people don't deserve to be vilified(and pay compensation) forever for deaths that did not occur.


To say that gas chambers were at no time used for the purpose of execution unfortunately betrays your otherwise very reasonable and methodical analysis of the Holocaust. Although much of the evidence has been destroyed, (or was destroyed by fleeing guards), the paper documentation of mass-murder occurring at the Polish Death Camps is both enormous and largely incontrovertible. I am unaware of exact numbers, but I think that the number you attribute to shooting deaths may possibly be a bit high, if not far out of proportion as to what actually happened. If memory serves correctly, the open-pit executions seldom exceeded 20,000 victims at any one time, and with good reason; assembling, shooting, moving, and burying such an enormous amount of people is no simple task, as these executions were invariably always carried out in open country.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by PplVSNWO


Am I reading this correctly? It doesn't matter if 100% of the testimony used to establish NAZI guilt is faked?



No you're not. Nuremberg was not concerned with proving the Holocaust. If you insist on that then we'll have to agree to disagree. Taylor, Jackson, Roosevelt and the allies share my opinion.



I realize the revelations on the trials don't disprove the Holocaust tale, but it does raise more questions on the why of extracting false testimony.

There's neither false testimony nor false documents in the following trials - which were held to prove individual guilt at the individual camps and therefore had to establish the total reality of the Holocaust - something that wasn't attempted at the Nuremberg trials.



Since you don't seem to refute the facts in Mark Weber's paper, but rather attempt to minimalize the revelations of the torture and treatment of those on the stand at Nuremberg, you have alterior motives than learning and spreading historical truths.


1. That's a non-sequitur.
2. Mark Weber operates on the premise that Nuremberg was held to conclusively prove the Holocaust. That premise is false. You can not construct a solid argument with a fals premise (although in Aristotelian logic you can come to a valid conclusion by building on a false premise...)



Your methods seem to be to attack the author by means of attacking their motives, this does not debate the implications of the facts of that paper at all.


1. Please point out where i attacked Mark Weber.

2. I refuted the premise of the article - and I backed up that refutation.

I don't believe that you read any of my posts as you simply fail to comment on any of the valid points. It seems to me you should read a bit more about the Nuremberg trials, their scope and their purpose, and then go on studying the individual camp trials of the 50's and 60's. It's simply impossible to understand why Mark Weber bases his analysis on a false premise if you have no knowledge of ALL of the trials. By simply looking at the Nuremberg trial you will not get the whole picture. Nuremberg was the first. And, for the last time, none of the prosecutors at Nuremberg felt that it was their job to conclusively prove the totality and all details of the Holocaust.
Think for youself - the sources show that the allies had not yet sighted the whole of the available documents nor the whole of available testimony. The politcal nature and the show trial aspects of those trials has been discussed and recognized since the 50's - one of the reasons why Germany decided to hold individual trials. But this is the 6 time I am writing this in this thread and like the third time I am writing this to you. So I guess You won't even see this.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Ningishzida
 



“Look, Judaism postulates that the JEWS are indeed special. A special race with special abilities as convened by "God".

Sound familiar?

Does this sound familiar yes or no! AND if your answer is yes then tell me the 20th Century equivilent would you, could you please?”

This does sound very similar to what?? Arabs, Brits what are you getting at?

Let me be very honest I am an anti Nazi on the basis of common sense and self preservation. I am very critical of what is happening in Israel. I detest one group oppressing another.

I cannot condone the idea of one group being gods chosen. All people who wrestle with themselves to be decent and upright are those chose by God(ess). However I cannot condone acts of genocide. So whatever these people’s religious leaders claim seem to justify this atrocity of mass murder of men, women and CHILDREN??????

You obviously can condone genocide which is your choice. I can think beyond simple binary options.

It doesn't matter if you have read my post once or 1000 times if you support genocide or extreme oppression of one group by another them you will always dislike my position.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Because no one ever reads the whole thread... Here again is what the guy playing the role of self-hating Jew in these Videos (David Cole) has to say about those today:







www.nizkor.org.../c/cole.david//cole.recants

THE STATEMENT OF DAVID COLE
Prepared January 2, 1998

This statement is given in an attempt to set the record
straight about my current views regarding the Holocaust and
Holocaust denial. As anyone who follows the subject of
Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well
known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier [a
self-described "revisionist"]. For the last three years I
have no longer been associated with this movement, having
realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking
with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I
have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of
my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by
my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to
distance myself from that life.

[....] edit by Nichirasu

I would like to state for the record that there is no
question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's
Jews during World War Two, the Nazis employed gas chambers
in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps
in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in
gas chambers which employed such poison gasses as Zyklon B
and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the
gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is
overwhelming and unmistakable.

[...] Edit by Nichirasu

It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is
still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running
on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these
additional points: This video is being advertised without my
consent, and I denouce this video as being without worth.
Bradley Smith is no historian, and denial is no "historical
field." Students on college campuses should look elsewhere
to find out about the Holocaust.



This is the guy who is walking around with Zundel in the Video. He has recanted on these videos years ago. He has been severly misused for Revisionist Propaganda.

If you believe his words - you might as well believe the last words he had to say on this subject: The videos are Garbage and the Holocaust happened.




Case closed?



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by NichirasuKenshin
 





Here again is what the guy playing the role of self-hating Jew in these Videos (David Cole)


Out of curiosity, why did you have to describe this kid as a "Self-hating jew" ....
You immediately show a bias !!! yet expect to be taken seriously.

As a so-called historian, surely you should show impartiality......no ?



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by ken10


Out of curiosity, why did you have to describe this kid as a "Self-hating jew" ....
You immediately show a bias !!! yet expect to be taken seriously.

As a so-called historian, surely you should show impartiality......no ?



As a Historian I have to apply impartiality to sources and historical situations.

Just because I am a Historian doesn't mean that I can't apply a label that I find appropriate :-)

You see "self hating Jew" as a slur. In reality "Self Hating Jew" is a term that anyone who is familiar with this debate will not take as a slur primarily. It is a label for an often-observed phenomenon among young people of the Jewish faith. It is often and quite liberally applied whenever someone of the Jewish faith teams up with known Neo-Nazis. It's not really normative but rather descritpive in nature. In Israel they, f.e. call the young Russian Jews that lke to play Nazis "self hating Jews"..

I didn't want to slur David Cole. He himself has described what he has done in those videos as (I quote) "playing the self hating Jew". So you're right, probably, it isn't the best term. I took it from Cole himself as I found it quite descriptive and very catchy.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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I skimmed through this, after the second page, surprised it went as long as it did. But from what I seen or read from this topic is alot of people are complaining about the numbers are they real or exagerated? Why care about the numbers? whether it was 6 or 6 Million it still didn't make it right. Nor does it really make it right for us to judge, we've done the same thing through out history too... the Native American's, African's, the Japanese ( granted we were as bad there but we still rounded them up).

We can sit here safe saying that oh it didnt happen, or oh its just a conspericy because we werent there, we didn't have to chose between following order or disobey and maybe your family will be killed. We didn't go on death marches, or into the "showers" we weren't all penned up and treated like beasts. We didn't have our pride our rights of being humans stripped away. And some ofe theses people who say this, sounds no better then the goverment your claiming will do the same to us.

So if our goverment/FEMA ever did that to us everyone going to turn around and say nah didnt happen? make up your minds people you cant have things both ways.

I don't really get the point of people who clain something did or didnt happen or its is a big lie to make us feel sorry, thats like the same saying oh the ancients couldnt of build this or knew that becasue they didn't have this tool or that tool again we don't know for sure.

And for that matter, a person who's mind is already made up, you will never change their minds. If they think it didn't happen they always will and no matter what proof you bring to the table they will already be a skeptic of it. The same goes the other way if the person things something happend and really wanted it to happen, it happend and no one facts or not will take that away from the person.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Jedite
 


Well, I think the numbers matter because the truth matters, above all else. If the numbers are erroneous we should reveal that and try to get it more accurate, whether it's higher or lower, for no other reason then because those numbers are the truth.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Tiger5
 


I am getting at that Judaism is Elitism is Nazism.

You are not understanding my position as I am not trying to justify genocide/racially based hatred/war et al.

Thank you for the addition of "ess" to "God" as a sign of your level of enlightenment as I understand that this sometimes goes unnoticed.

"God" is an "IT" in my mind BTW although I am sure that even that seems rather unenlightened to the atheistic mind


Condone genocide? Are you serious that this is what you get from my posts?

I believe that this is simply your misconception.

What I am trying to say:

1: RACE is still being used to justify genocide
2: RACE is a non sequitur
3: The point of this thread needed this subtle subversion to bring out the greater truths that anyone with half an open mind can surely now see....
3a: that there is a reason why you were taught HOLOCAUST ad nauseum yet have no clue as to what HOLODOMOR means
3b: that there is a reason why hollywood promotes the holocaust
3c: that there is a reason why America seems to blindly defend and fund the state of israel
3d: that there is a reason why it is a crime to even debate the holocaust in some countries and why it is a "social crime/taboo" to debate the holocaust in forums such as this one like an invisible hand.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Ningishzida
Great Thread!

Something that a thinking person could use to EASILY divide the Intellectuals from the pseudo intellectuals.

FACT: The "jews" we are referring to are not "Jewish/hebrew" in the least. They are descendents of the Kazhars from Kazhakistan who converted to JUDAISM in the 10th century or so i.e. CAUCASIANS although they have KEPT TO THEIR OWN for so long that they do indeed have a slew of genetic issues as a result of INBREEDING (a very shallow gene pool) and thus have many distinctive features that the world mistakes for JEW HEBREW SEMITE.

Thus, no JEWS were killed in Nazi germany.

blah,blah,blah.....



And the winner is...

13 pages and finally,finally the Khazar Jews. You forgot two points besides not spelling the name right.

Folks, we're talking about the 13th tribe. The people who became Caucasian by crossing the Caucus Mountains. You also didn't mention Queen Elizabeth ties in as well as all European royalty in the Khazar branch.

This made up stuff just can't be made up. There is a religion based on this very concept. We now have Christian Identiy involved.

Do your homework, then we can talk.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin

Originally posted by PplVSNWO


Am I reading this correctly? It doesn't matter if 100% of the testimony used to establish NAZI guilt is faked?




No you're not. Nuremberg was not concerned with proving the Holocaust. If you insist on that then we'll have to agree to disagree. Taylor, Jackson, Roosevelt and the allies share my opinion.

I did not say that Nuremberg was concerned with proving the Holocaust.



There's neither false testimony nor false documents in the following trials - which were held to prove individual guilt at the individual camps and therefore had to establish the total reality of the Holocaust - something that wasn't attempted at the Nuremberg trials.

I hope you have extrodinary proof for this statement. Why go out of their way to offer forged documents and extract statements via torture to begin with?



Since you don't seem to refute the facts in Mark Weber's paper, but rather attempt to minimalize the revelations of the torture and treatment of those on the stand at Nuremberg, you have alterior motives than learning and spreading historical truths.



1. That's a non-sequitur.
2. Mark Weber operates on the premise that Nuremberg was held to conclusively prove the Holocaust. That premise is false. You can not construct a solid argument with a fals premise (although in Aristotelian logic you can come to a valid conclusion by building on a false premise...)

I guess I'll disagree there, that seems to be your interpretation. I am more concerned with the factual content of the paper than what Mark may or may have not set out to prove to begin with.


Your methods seem to be to attack the author by means of attacking their motives, this does not debate the implications of the facts of that paper at all.



1. Please point out where i attacked Mark Weber.

I pointed out that you "debunking" your interpretation of the premise of the article was an attack on the author rather than the evidence


2. I refuted the premise of the article - and I backed up that refutation.

And yet you failed to refute the evidence and implications of the facts posted in the article.


I don't believe that you read any of my posts as you simply fail to comment on any of the valid points. It seems to me you should read a bit more about the Nuremberg trials, their scope and their purpose, and then go on studying the individual camp trials of the 50's and 60's. It's simply impossible to understand why Mark Weber bases his analysis on a false premise if you have no knowledge of ALL of the trials. By simply looking at the Nuremberg trial you will not get the whole picture. Nuremberg was the first. And, for the last time, none of the prosecutors at Nuremberg felt that it was their job to conclusively prove the totality and all details of the Holocaust.
Think for youself - the sources show that the allies had not yet sighted the whole of the available documents nor the whole of available testimony. The politcal nature and the show trial aspects of those trials has been discussed and recognized since the 50's - one of the reasons why Germany decided to hold individual trials. But this is the 6 time I am writing this in this thread and like the third time I am writing this to you. So I guess You won't even see this.

Do you deny that testimony of Germans on trial at Nuremberg were/are used as evidence for the Holocaust official story? Because I see documents and testimony from the Nuremberg trials frequently used as evidence of the Holocaust.

BTW., have you read over the link to the Crematoria that I posted above the Weber paper yet?



[edit on 8-8-2010 by PplVSNWO]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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Until this moment I had no idea of the high amount of anti-semites and just plain overall haters there are on ATS - including Moderators!

The level of intellectual immaturity presented under the guise of open debate is simply astounding. Have I inadvertently stumbled into a Klan meeting, or a re-union for the Aryan nation?

I actually feel nauseous, and am fighting to keep my breakfast down. I surrender!

I am done on ATS with any forum even remotely relating to modern or current historical and political issues. I will stick with simple issues like UFOs and Lost Civilizations, where the posters may occasionally nuts but are generally not hateful.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by PplVSNWO
 


Sorry but you do realize that Nuremberg was the first of many trials, right? Just to make that clear. You write as if Nuremberg was the only trial.

I said feel free to point to any false testimony or documents in the trials that actually were held to prove the Holocaust.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by hinky

Originally posted by Ningishzida
Great Thread!

Something that a thinking person could use to EASILY divide the Intellectuals from the pseudo intellectuals.

FACT: The "jews" we are referring to are not "Jewish/hebrew" in the least. They are descendents of the Kazhars from Kazhakistan who converted to JUDAISM in the 10th century or so i.e. CAUCASIANS although they have KEPT TO THEIR OWN for so long that they do indeed have a slew of genetic issues as a result of INBREEDING (a very shallow gene pool) and thus have many distinctive features that the world mistakes for JEW HEBREW SEMITE.

Thus, no JEWS were killed in Nazi germany.

blah,blah,blah.....



And the winner is...

13 pages and finally,finally the Khazar Jews. You forgot two points besides not spelling the name right.

Folks, we're talking about the 13th tribe. The people who became Caucasian by crossing the Caucus Mountains. You also didn't mention Queen Elizabeth ties in as well as all European royalty in the Khazar branch.

This made up stuff just can't be made up. There is a religion based on this very concept. We now have Christian Identiy involved.

Do your homework, then we can talk.


Thank you for spellchecking yet you are not a simple program are you?


Shooting from the hip babey and if you do not like it! You can continue to whine about grammatical errors if you wish, I suppose


Here, I have more idiotic things to say!


If the OUT OF AFRICA theory is to be believed. All peoples besides africans will have middle eastern DNA!

and since people tend to hump other people the same dna could be reintroduced back into africa further clouding the "water" for our budding nastrodom's.

If we are to believe biblical blah blah then we are all from adam and eve and also noah whence came abraham alah judah ta da the self isolated tribal "jews" who of course share some DNA with ALL those who supposedly came from the middle east.

So again, Did the Nazi's kill 6 million jews or people who simply claimed to be of Jewish racial decent because that is what you and I know that they were meaning when they must have answered "Yes-Judah".

I do not care what IT has come to mean now in this overly sanitized sanitarium where good thoughts go to die.

Ashkanzi etemology goes only as far as to suggest that the term means "People of the rhineland" or even simply "german" as they must have been their a long enough time to be associated firmly with the location yet still retain some distinction via an adopted religion and thus the spiral completes a cycle


Now they use it against the XTIANS as a form of mind control i.e. biblical fear, sympathy or simply to make the masses apathetic to Israeli atrocities as well as those of our own.

See? Clarrise? do you see!?!?!!?


Okay I will bite!
Yes! Sure! All the kings and queens could simply be a line of Kazhars dating back to their 8th century conversion to Judaism.

They could all be human/reptiles as well!!!

I digress.

I will point out how religion has been used to control and that their conversion was probably predominantly if not totally via political motivation much like that of Romes Constantine, council of nicea et al.

Judaism is "powerful mojo" is what it amounts to and that NO, few if any of those killed by the Nazi's are racially "semitic-jewish-hebrew" yet more like the character Borat!


I had better shut up as I just converted to Judaism a few hours ago and plan to reep the benefits very soon, very soon indeed!!!


Uh oh, the massad is knocking at my door...... Neo, follow the white rabbit!!!



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Ningishzida
 

“I am getting at that Judaism is Elitism is Nazism.”
Well then everything equals everything. Which means everthing equals nothing as all terms and definition that may hold elitism in the dictionary sense has no meaning. Therefore there can be no effective dialogue or even bad grammar.

“You are not understanding my position as I am not trying to justify genocide/racially based hatred/war et al. “ Ok well then you are a decent person until proven otherwise.

“Thank you for the addition of "ess" to "God" as a sign of your level of enlightenment as I understand that this sometimes goes unnoticed. “ Thanks

"God" is an "IT" in my mind BTW although I am sure that even that seems rather unenlightened to the atheistic mind


I believe that this is simply your misconception.

What I am trying to say:

1: RACE is still being used to justify genocide
2: RACE is a non sequitur
I agree with both.



“3: The point of this thread needed this subtle subversion to bring out the greater truths that anyone with half an open mind can surely now see.” Well I have been trying in my own unsubtle way to identifiy who are anti semitic and to get the anti semitite and Pro Nazis out in daylight.


3a: that there is a reason why you were taught HOLOCAUST ad nauseum yet have no clue as to what HOLODOMOR means

So the Jews had a better PR machine. Sorry but that is the way of the world. I am not crazy about any one race of humans we all have far too many bad people and idiots! I just dislike injustice.

3b: that there is a reason why hollywood promotes the holocaust

Hollywood is effectively for unthinking people. If I want macho escapism or Saccharine laced pap I look to Hollywood films. If I want something sensible I watch Clint Eastwood-directed films and or even better something with Subtitles from Europe.

3c: that there is a reason why America seems to blindly defend and fund the state of israel

Well there is a strong and inhumane Jewsish lobby that I cannot support.

“3d: that there is a reason why it is a crime to even debate the holocaust in some countries and why it is a "social crime/taboo" to debate the holocaust in forums such as this one like an invisible hand. “ Ah but the holocaust is the world’s shame. It has become the modern yardstick of what happened in a civilized and developed country. Rwanda was awfull but Rwanda is a third world country where I am ashamaed to say life is cheap as it is a poor and an agricultural country. You still cannot equate Rwanda today with the socially advanced and sophistication of Germany in the Inter war years. Even now their cars are very good.

However the metaphor of the Holocaust is a good one to explain what is a shameful period in history.

I have googled the Holomodor. It is older than the holocaust. I hold stalin responsible for that but why tear down the holocaust as a metaphor. The reason behind the Holocaust is clear as it is blind racial hatred. Scholars seem to have varying opinions as to the cause of the Holomodor. The same cannot be said for the holocaust. even before the first concentration camps the Jews were being systematically victimised.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Sashromi
Until this moment I had no idea of the high amount of anti-semites and just plain overall haters there are on ATS - including Moderators!

The level of intellectual immaturity presented under the guise of open debate is simply astounding. Have I inadvertently stumbled into a Klan meeting, or a re-union for the Aryan nation?

I actually feel nauseous, and am fighting to keep my breakfast down. I surrender!

I am done on ATS with any forum even remotely relating to modern or current historical and political issues. I will stick with simple issues like UFOs and Lost Civilizations, where the posters may occasionally nuts but are generally not hateful.


Dare I suggest that Ignorance is not bliss yet can be substituted like the fake steak of the matrix analogy?


I mean, I have felt that way before and have had 100's of posters on my "hate/ignore" list yet when the fabric of the discourse begins to fall apart i.e. "missing meanings from missing posts" then you may tend to regret it.

I will not choose to ignore anyone or any subject as that is a self made prison of sorts.
Think about it.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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You want to know the truth? Buy a plane ticket and visit the camps. I lived in Germany for a few years and managed to visit the main camps... Auschwitz, Buchenwald and Dachau. You will no longer have doubts. The Crematorium is sobering and the statute in front of the main entrance of Dachau will bring you to tears. It is silent when shuffling the dormitories.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Ningishzida
 

“I am getting at that Judaism is Elitism is Nazism.”
Well then everything equals everything. Which means everthing equals nothing as all terms and definition that may hold elitism in the dictionary sense has no meaning. Therefore there can be no effective dialogue or even bad grammar.

“You are not understanding my position as I am not trying to justify genocide/racially based hatred/war et al. “ Ok well then you are a decent person until proven otherwise.

“Thank you for the addition of "ess" to "God" as a sign of your level of enlightenment as I understand that this sometimes goes unnoticed. “ Thanks

"God" is an "IT" in my mind BTW although I am sure that even that seems rather unenlightened to the atheistic mind


I believe that this is simply your misconception.

What I am trying to say:

1: RACE is still being used to justify genocide
2: RACE is a non sequitur
I agree with both.



“3: The point of this thread needed this subtle subversion to bring out the greater truths that anyone with half an open mind can surely now see.” Well I have been trying in my own unsubtle way to identifiy who are anti semitic and to get the anti semitite and Pro Nazis out in daylight.


3a: that there is a reason why you were taught HOLOCAUST ad nauseum yet have no clue as to what HOLODOMOR means

So the Jews had a better PR machine. Sorry but that is the way of the world. I am not crazy about any one race of humans we all have far too many bad people and idiots! I just dislike injustice.

3b: that there is a reason why hollywood promotes the holocaust

Hollywood is effectively for unthinking people. If I want macho escapism or Saccharine laced pap I look to Hollywood films. If I want something sensible I watch Clint Eastwood-directed films and or even better something with Subtitles from Europe.

3c: that there is a reason why America seems to blindly defend and fund the state of israel

Well there is a strong and inhumane Jewsish lobby that I cannot support.

“3d: that there is a reason why it is a crime to even debate the holocaust in some countries and why it is a "social crime/taboo" to debate the holocaust in forums such as this one like an invisible hand. “ Ah but the holocaust is the world’s shame. It has become the modern yardstick of what happened in a civilized and developed country. Rwanda was awfull but Rwanda is a third world country where I am ashamaed to say life is cheap as it is a poor and an agricultural country. You still cannot equate Rwanda today with the socially advanced and sophistication of Germany in the Inter war years. Even now their cars are very good.

However the metaphor of the Holocaust is a good one to explain what is a shameful period in history.

I have googled the Holomodor. It is older than the holocaust. I hold stalin responsible for that but why tear down the holocaust as a metaphor. The reason behind the Holocaust is clear as it is blind racial hatred. Scholars seem to have varying opinions as to the cause of the Holomodor. The same cannot be said for the holocaust. even before the first concentration camps the Jews were being systematically victimised.






No, saying that Judaism is elitism is the same as nazism is not saying that everything is everything...

It is suggesting that they all use the same false/fake propaganda i.e. that one race is better then another which is what BOTH nazism and Judaism suggest.

simple enough right?

No, you do not have to go about seeking the nazi's, skin heads or anti semites from the herd as you should now easily be able to deduce that:
1: I am not one of them
2: in this instance your "pursuit" misled you
3: race is simply mankind trying to indentify yet like the sands of time race is forever shifting.



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