Iran Holocaust-denying website angers Israe

If the holocaust were to be properly debunked then there goes one heck of a cash cow for the Zionists, not to mention the big lever they use to manipulate the Jews and Americans and British and Germans etc, as well.
Thats a double wammy..
No more money from the Perps or the Vics....

Holocaust-"Burnt Offering" which apparently was done in "Gas Ovens"
I guess you need an oven to have a burnt offering...

Say, how come they don't call prison gas chambers "ovens"?
just sayin...

PS if at first....

1. The Holocaust of 1900, described in New York Times June 11, 1900?

2. The Holocaust of 1919, described in The American Hebrew, October 31, 1919?

3. The Holocaust of World War II, proclaimed by the Soviets at the Nuremberg show trials?

There have been countless "Holocausts" since the ancient Talmudic prophesy that the Kingdom of David would return after 6,000,000 Jews died in fiery furnaces.

globalfire.tv...

Also now that since it is proven that Israel has Nuclear weapons,
every dollar given from the US since the day that Israel has had a Nuclear weapon is lawfully ILLEGAL by US law.



[edit on 7-8-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


No, that isn't the evidence of how many Jews died during WWII, that number can be estimated through statestics.

This is evidence of Zionist agenda, we all know what they wanted, and we all knew what they were willing to do to achieve that objective.

They have done it.

reply to post by gem_man


yeah mroe russians died then jews but im pretty sure but could be wrong that more chinese were killed then any one else just saying

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

No, that isn't the evidence of how many Jews died during WWII, that number can be estimated through statestics.

This is evidence of Zionist agenda, we all know what they wanted, and we all knew what they were willing to do to achieve that objective.

They have done it.

It's evidence of nothing more than that some Zionists in the 1920's were ready to lie and exagerate in order to further their agenda. Anyone who is surprised by that strikes me as extremely naive.

You see... " we all know that " is a vague argument from authority. I'd be interested in what you mean by "we".. All other Holocaust-Denyers?
Because you are not using "we" in the normal sense. You and me make a we, but obviously "we DON'T all know" since I couldn't disagree more with your personal interpretation of some writings from the 1920's.

Arguments from authority, even when - not like in your case ("we all") appealing to an accepted authority, are not logically valid arguments.
No rational person will be convinced by someone simply saying " We all know that"... It's something like the lowest form of "I am right, you are wrong".... But since you didn't answer any substantial part of my post I guess this is a waste of time anyways...

The "jews" ... The "Zionists" ... I smell boogey-man BS. There's no such thing.
At least say whom you mean when you use these labels.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

Originally posted by KilrathiLG
reply to post by gem_man

 

yeah mroe russians died then jews but im pretty sure but could be wrong that more chinese were killed then any one else just saying

Why does that make the Holocaust the most important?

AGENDA ??

over 60 million people died in WWII, 60/100* 6 = 3.6%.

If there wasn't any AGENDA, all the deaths during this catastrophe would have been given an importance. Rather repeatedly we have been forced to swallow and stay conscious of mostly this 3.6% who apparently died due to genocide being implemented against them.

I say AGENDA.

Others can say what ever they want:
"Winners of wars write the next chapter"

It is idiotic to believe the winners of WWII didn't alter the truth.

reply to post by oozyism

over 60 million people died in WWII, 60/100* 6 = 3.6%.

6 out of 60 is 10 percent. Just to help you out with math.
And as for agenda - tens of millions of people died since 1948 in various conflicts. Tens of thousands of Palestinians. Holocaust , you say?
Agenda?

Originally posted by oozyism


Why does that make the Holocaust the most important?

- The jewish community was the best organized of all the victim groups and could make itself heard and had political influence and a great action fund.

- The Jews were the largest single group to be wholely targeted by the Nazis.

- They were the only group that was systematically identifyed and sorted out and deported by censuses in Germany and the occupied territories.

- They were the only group to be systematically deported and left to die/killed for the sole reason of having forebears of a particular faith.

Not all Poles were systematically identifyed and deported. Neither were all slavs. Neither were all blacks. Neither were all communists... etc, etc.

If you were any of the other persecuted groups, you had a big chance of ending up killed by the Nazis.
If you were a jew, you had a practical guarantee of being killed if you couldn't escape.
So to some extent the situation of the jews was singular; also they were the only group to play such a crucial role in the world-view of Nazism. Communists and Slavs were just agents of the jews, in that world view. The jew was at the root or the so called "conspiracy against the German Reich" in their view.

So there are many reasons why the Jews would claim and/or be awarded a special chapter in the persecution of the Nazis. They held a unique and singular position in the events of the second world war, especially the German part. So this is not necessarily the product of some kind of conspiracy among historians.... It has alot to do with the reality of the persecution and how it differed from the other, less systematic persecutions of other groups.

That's not to say that "agenda" and well placed hard-core Zionists didn't have a field day with instrumentalizing the Holocaust in order to justify the creation of Israel.
But that is only one part of the story. To say that the jews did not hold an especially tragic role in National Socialist Germany is simply to deny reality. This is not a doctrinary statement; I believe the historical evidence points to this fact.
( Or was there any other group that played such a prominent role in the National Socialist worldview? - we could discuss that, I think there's good evidence that they held a singular position.)

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


Is it a coincidence that the number is 6 million, as usual, which has occurred over and over again throughout history, to Jews?

Foul me once, shame on you, Bush says, "a foul can't get fouled again".

So think here for a second: I'm saying that this hints to us the Zionist agenda.

We all know what Zionists wanted, don't you get it? The Zionist organization was supported by the US, and other Western nations. Its head quarters were in US I think.

Zionists wanted a home land in Palestine under any means necessary.

They even used terrorism against Britain in regards to Palestine.

Key word AGENDA.

If you want to know how many Jews actually died during WWII, check the statestics.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


You based your whole post on general belief of history, while we are debating that same history.

That can't be right can it?

Jews weren't the only group being prosecuted, but you claim their prosecution was the most intense, and they had the highest level of being killed, or left to die.

That is what we are debating, you believe they are facts, I believethey are distorted facts joined together to create a lie.

Although Jews were hated, just like Muslims are hated today. I can bring distorted facts, join it together and create the same image portrayed in regards to Jews under Nazi.ism* (mistake fixed).

Edit to CHANGE mistake.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by oozyism]

reply to post by oozyism


"The Yesha Rabbinical Council announced in response to an IDF attack in Kfar Qanna that "according to Jewish law, during a time of battle and war, there is no such term as 'innocents' of the enemy."

SOURCE

how many time do we have to hear about the poor Jews that got slaughtered from the Israelis? My family were part Jewish and had to walk across Europe to escape the Nazis!

We don't bang on about it, we get on with life and learned the lesson that everyone should be more tolerant of their neighbours.

As I have shown and liked above the Israelis themselves do not believe in innocent people when at war, so what the F*** are they complaining about. The Nazis were behaving exactly the same way the Israelis are now behaving.

Biblical times are upon us and if the Israelis do not pull their heads out of their asses their won't be an Israel left to bore the hell out of us and murder INNOCENT people!

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

Is it a coincidence that the number is 6 million, as usual, which has occurred over and over again throughout history, to Jews?

It's a handy number. No one ever claimed that exactly 6,000,000 jews were killed. Of course this early estimate was not based on empirical research - and yes it has kind of become the traditional number among laymen. But it was never the prevalent view among historians. Historians write history, not States.

Foul me once, shame on you, Bush says, "a foul can't get fouled again".

Of course. Except that one story (1920's) was an obvious distortion (10'000's died, not 6 million) of what really happened. No one believed them and it didn't further their agenda. And it was not a commonly held position by the whole jewish community.

The other story was based on something that really happened ( the Einsatzgruppen alone and the lowest accepted estimates for the camps run to several million), therefore it was recognized and it did play a role in the creation of Israel.

What you have is a correlation: The number "6 million" turns up both times. Above that, this story shows nothing: Corroboration is not evidence of causation or connection.

So think here for a second: I'm saying that this hints to us the Zionist agenda.

So again what you say is that in the 1920's and the 1940's there were some hard-core Zionists who were willing to lie, exagerate and distort facts in order to promote their goal - a jewish state?
What is a)shocking b) new c) controversial d) revealing about this fact? It is common knowledge. This observation is accepted by most historians who have delved into the subject. But this is far away of "being evidence" for any secret plan to systematically distort the professional research into the Holocaust.

We all know what Zionists wanted, don't you get it?

Again. " We all know" . Obviously I don't. So there's no "we".

The Zionist organization was supported by the US, and other Western nations. Its head quarters were in US I think.

There were several Zionist organizations. They had tremendous support in the US, but they also were hated and had many active enemies in the US and the West. This is not a black-and-white issue. Many Americans were supportive of Hitlers plans for the jews.

Zionists wanted a home land in Palestine under any means necessary.

Again. This is common knowledge. How is this suppressed? Every history book mentions it. Are you trying to say that they begged Hitler to kill them in order to have a founding myth or what?

They even used terrorism against Britain in regards to Palestine.

As all the people fighting for independence of the British (and other) empires eventually did.

Key word AGENDA.

If you want to know how many Jews actually died during WWII, check the statestics.

I did consult the statistics. It seems other people in this thread didn't.

This thread implies that discussion is suppressed. How can there be differing statistics when that is true?

You can't hold a monopoly on historical truth. Neither the "jews" nor "the zionists" nor "Israel" ever did. I already said that some of the criticism you mention has some merit when it comes to the laymans discussion of the Holocaust, as found in the media, but certainly not in the field of professional history.



[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

You based your whole post on general belief of history, while we are debating that same history.

That can't be right can it?

There's no general belief in history. There's just good and bad arguments.

Jews weren't the only group being prosecuted, but you claim their prosecution was the most intense, and they had the highest level of being killed, or left to die.

I did not say most intense. It was the most systematic and they were the only group that were victims of persecution a priori; most groups were victimized a posteriori, for specific actions - the jews were singled out and deported not for their actions but for the simple fact of having had jewish forebears.

That is what we are debating, you believe they are facts, I believethey are distorted facts joined together to create a lie.

So in that case you won't have any problem to demonstrate that the Nazis also used the Census to identify and deport other groups? You should also be able to point to National Socialist doctrine and demonstrate that other groups besides the jews held such a prominent role in the thinking and the placement of blame for Germany's perceived mysery.

Although Jews were hated, just like Muslims are hated today. I can bring distorted facts, join it together and create the same image portrayed in regards to Jews under Zionists.

Quite frankly, I have no idea what your talking about.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

They estimate conservatively that 5.7 million died. what makes the figure so bad is that it was done on an industrial level never before seen in history.

Also it is estimated that 5.7 million Russian POW's died in German captivity.

At the end of the day by the end of the war we got to see how low humanity could sink.

In the last 60 yrs we have witnessed that depravity again and again.

and in the future we will see it again. 100% no doubts.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by greenfruit]

reply to post by gem_man


We must educate people in a clever way so not be branded "H" deniers. We must not let the jewish state constantly ude the "H" to justify their atrosities. UN gave them the state, UN can take it away. By mooving UN to Jerusalem and reclaiming it as the earth city.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


This is not going anywhere, let's forcefully take it somewhere:

- Start - How many Jews died during WWII - _with evidence_

You start!

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

This is not going anywhere, let's forcefully take it somewhere:

- Start - How many Jews died during WWII - _with evidence_

You start!

Yawn.. No thanks. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

There's plenty of threads where you can deny the Holocaust or debate the numbers without derailing a thread. There's several open right now. Feel free to jump into the discussion there.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


I´m tired of scholars destroying knowledge.

Shame be on you sir.

"You see... " we all know that " is a vague argument from authority. I'd be interested in what you mean by "we".. All other Holocaust-Denyers?

Yes, why don't you point someone to their argumental mistakes then turn around to make a HUGE one in the very same sentence. Academic? Please, that words means nothing in this world anymore. Money won't teach you a single thing about discovering and researching truth.

You turn the "we" into holocaust-deniers. A word you would have not known without the zionist agenda, you seem to know this and go around it or you simply are that ignorant. How is that not a vague and outright false argument if you hadn't noticed yourself?

But then again, you have no idea what you're talking about do you?

What is becoming increasingly interesting to me is that people know the Israeli government is corrupt and genocidal(don't try to argue this and say you're a scholar, yuck, you people denied Rwanda, you people deny Sudan).
From false flags to drag the US into wars to arms dealing to pretty much every rebel organization that is being fought by the US. Yet, certain individuals who get paid to refuse to accept the truth have to pretend to be this and that...how can you not realize your time is done mr. suit and tie?

It's as if academics and scholars such as yourself are just stuck in backward history. Why backwards? Because you still believe the nonsense propaganda agencies were spreading over 80 years ago. We are in an age where information is spread like wildfire. We have the chance to overthrow propaganda. When you fight tooth and nail to keep the information from being spread and to keep the propaganda in place, you are living backwards and to call yourself an academic would be hypocritical, though academics usually are the greatest hypocrites.

So why, WHY, for heaven sake, are you saying what you are saying? Why are you ignoring points made and why are you calling others holocaust deniers? They didn't ask to get put in a tiny box because they QUESTIONED something. Why are you calling Iran anti-semetic when Iran has more semites living there in peace than Israel has living in peace?

Sir, you stink in a fishy way. Academic? Don't make me laugh. Oh wait...too late...

Originally posted by Zamini


I´m tired of scholars destroying knowledge.

Maybe then, with your monopoly on "knowledge" and "truth" you should become one yourself. It should be rather easy for someone who is so sure about what "real knowledge is.

Shame be on you sir.

Why, if it isn't the moral majority speaking, is it?

Academic? Please, that words means nothing in this world anymore. Money won't teach you a single thing about discovering and researching truth.

So you have developed a systematic theory that Academia was more trustworthy and better in "the good old times". Good luck proving that. Simply asserting something is not making an argument.

The fact that you have no idea what a career at a university is is shown by the fact that you associate "money" with "university" . This may be essential in the anglo saxon world of Academia, but it isn't true for the continent and the rest of the world. There is simply no money in being an Academic. And quite frankly, becoming and Academic is not expensive at all. It's really cheap. But it's also a pain in the ass. Money is not the reasons that we are the minority.

You turn the "we" into holocaust-deniers. A word you would have not known without the zionist agenda, you seem to know this and go around it or you simply are that ignorant.

I did not learn that from any Zionist agenda. Having grown up in Europe, I was exposed to Holocaust Denying and Revisionism long before I ever grasped what "Zionism" even means. That the guy lecturing about the "holohoax" at the train station when I was a kid was a complete moron is something I discerned without consulting with any Zionists. There are good and bad arguments. Eventually, if you really want to, even such a dimwit as you might come to understand the difference. Although I doubt your chances. Youd have to learn to think for yourself - not something you seem especially comfortable with.

But then again, you have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Let's leave that question to the people reading the thread.

What is becoming increasingly interesting to me is that people know the Israeli government is corrupt and genocidal(don't try to argue this and say you're a scholar, yuck, you people denied Rwanda, you people deny Sudan).

Please provide examples of any and all scholars who have "denied Ruanda" or "deny Sudan"... That's quite a loony statement. Please show me one scholarly work that argues that no people were killed in Sudan or Ruanda. Good luck with that.

From false flags to drag the US into wars to arms dealing to pretty much every rebel organization that is being fought by the US.

Why don't you make a thread were you elaborate on and back up your ridiculous claims? Or is blanket accusation all you've got?

Yet, certain individuals who get paid to refuse to accept the truth have to pretend to be this and that...how can you not realize your time is done mr. suit and tie?

Ah.. It's the old "disninfo" whining. Well that's certaintly not original. Considering how rich Borman and friends were after the war it would probably be the more convincing conspiracy theory if I would accuse you of being paid out of Nazi-Funds. Of course I'm not juvenile enough to make such accusations.

It's as if academics and scholars such as yourself are just stuck in backward history. Why backwards? Because you still believe the nonsense propaganda agencies were spreading over 80 years ago.

Uhm-.- I specialized in modern European history. So you are telling me that the sources I use are from the 1930's? (2010-80=1930)

What's that supposed to mean? The documents I studied about Nazism all stem from the Nazis themselves, not from "propaganda"... Whatever.. You seem to have no freaking clue. What's that even supposed to mean?

We are in an age where information is spread like wildfire.

Information. Disinformation. Lies. Half truths. All travel and spread like wildfire. You'll still need critical thinking to cope with that.

We have the chance to overthrow propaganda.

You mean you're using the chance to spread your own? That would be a more honest formulation.

When you fight tooth and nail to keep the information from being spread and to keep the propaganda in place, you are living backwards and to call yourself an academic would be hypocritical, though academics usually are the greatest hypocrites.

Feel free to point out any and all places and instances where I "fought" to keep information from being spread?
Don't you find it kind of ridiculous to make such claims on a DISCUSSION BOARD where discussion is welcomed? There's nothing hidden in this thread. For god's sake, there isn't even a fight.

So why, WHY, for heaven sake, are you saying what you are saying?

Because it's the truth. It's as simple as that.

Why are you ignoring points made and why are you calling others holocaust deniers?

Are you denying that Iran is host to many groups that deny the Holocaust? Really wanna take that position?

They didn't ask to get put in a tiny box because they QUESTIONED something.

A yes. "Just asking questions" ... Just like Glenn Beck and Eric Cartman, right?
I was talking about blanket denial. I am not aware of any serious Holocaust scholarship coming out of Iran - although I did try to find some.

Why are you calling Iran anti-semetic when Iran has more semites living there in peace than Israel has living in peace?

I didn't call Iran anti-semtic. I said Iran is the birthplace of much of the anti-Isreal propaganda today, and it has been that way since even the days of the Sha. That is not to demonize the Iranians; neither the state nor the people. The fact that much of the traditional anti-jewish propaganda is still peddled and still promoted by groups in Iran is undeniable. But Iran as a country, as a whole - I have nothing against it. In fact I enjoeyd my vaccation there very much. A very interesting culture.

Sir, you stink in a fishy way. Academic? Don't make me laugh. Oh wait...too late...

Since my olfactory senses don't seem to be connected to the internet as well as yours, I can't give you a judgement about how your smell tastes to me. But I can give you an opinion on your overall coherence and stuff. But I don't wanna ruin your day.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

I just thought of something else to "say" in regard to this "news" coming out now.

The last time we saw this "news story" was in 2007. Also coincidentally the last time the war drums beat this loudly against Iran.

For anyone following patterns and trends in propaganda and the war on Iran playbook, you might be interested in this thread.

War on Iran: What Year Is This?

In 2007: Ahmadinejad Questions 9/11, Holocaust

Notice too the re-emerging "Ahmadinejad 9/11 viewsl" debate.

2010
Ahmadinejad: 9/11 scenario dubious

Iranian website mocks 'Holocaust lie'

Patterns...patterns...patterns.Seeing them yet?

Same play book...2007...2010. Same propaganda. It's a war on your mind....for your mind.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

Please provide examples of any and all scholars who have "denied Ruanda" or "deny Sudan"... That's quite a loony statement. Please show me one scholarly work that argues that no people were killed in Sudan or Ruanda. Good luck with that.

Denied GENOCIDE. Not that people were killed. Way to twist words mr. Academic, I see they taught you well.

Why don't you make a thread were you elaborate on and back up your ridiculous claims? Or is blanket accusation all you've got?

By calling my statement blanket you deny the inherent truth with it. Or do you want to deny a certain ship sinking or certain individuals calling leaders of the world 'lapdogs'? Do you want to deny 'false flag' operations along with that

You mean you're using the chance to spread your own? That would be a more honest formulation.

Why imply that my observations are propaganda in some way? I don't have any motive besides sharing my observations. Those being; rich stay rich, poor stay poor. The idea is that this is due to poverty, mentally and physically. Now, who is really capable of spreading propaganda? Those with social status right?

Feel free to point out any and all places and instances where I "fought" to keep information from being spread?

Let me retort in a manner known to you: -.-

I said Iran is the birthplace of much of the anti-Isreal propaganda today, and it has been that way since even the days of the Sha.

Uhm-.- I specialized in modern European history. So you are telling me that the sources I use are from the 1930's? (2010-80=1930)

Lets see, mr. Academic, you specialized in modern European history...Ever taken the time to study modern Iranian history? No? Or do you think the coupe in '79 had nothing to do with Israel at all? Study Iranian history and look at the close relationship between Iranians and Jews. Why is there anti-Israel sentiment in Iran since the placement of US-Israel controlled heads of state and since the overthrowing of governments? Does it still make no sense to you?