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Unfair criticism of the Christian religion...

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posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by bogomil
Re: adjensen

I can only commend your attitude of 'live and let live', which I don't believe is empty boasting in your case.


No, it is not. I believe that it is incumbent on Christians to ensure that there is an accurate portrayal of the teachings of Christ available to you, but that's the end of it. I don't really care whether you accept it or not, or whether you want to believe in Jesus, Allah, Thor, or nothing. That's between you and God, not me.


Only one observation: In one of your posts, you used a link to 'David..something', and I followed it. It looks pretty pro-christian to me, and I question its objectivity...

You seem like a very intelligent and fair person, and I have great respect for you, but....you need to stoop to this kind of info?


As I wrote in a later reply:


The link I posted was just some random thing I found on google, it's not my work. Almost all of these "conspiracy" threads can be refuted by just pointing you to someone else who's done the legwork, there's no point in writing it up again. Google "Jesus Horus" and there are 4,000,000 pages to choose from (most, I assume, reiterating your claim, but as a Christian, you get the "Christian response", obviously.)


There are a million and one incorrect claims laid at Christianity's door, and most, if not all, are without base or, as per the original questioner, based on a biased point of view that seeks to distort Christian teaching. If I spent all my time researching things that I know to be absolute nonsense, I'd whiz away my life reinventing the wheel, because none of this is new, none of it cannot be countered, and none of it has not been countered before.

Faith is not scientific, it is a statement of belief, so there is generally a bias to be assumed. The page that I pointed him to included citations of his sources, so it wasn't just him talking out of his hat, and that's good enough for me. If one wishes to criticize Christianity for being Christianity, as this particular post did, one should expect a Christian response, unless you, as a non-Christian, wish to chime in with your perspective.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Wolf Eyes
“No it isn't. If you want to think it is, and you want to think that it's unique to Christianity, feel free, but that is not true.”

Here is a list of religions that don’t believe in hell…

Buddhism, Confucianism, Hare Krishna, Hinduism, Black Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Rastafarianism, Gypsies, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, Vedanta, Agnosticism, Atheism, Marxism, Naturalism, Secular Humanism, Necromancy, Rosicrucianism, Wicca, Christian Science, New Age, Scientology, Theosophy, Transcendental Meditation, Unitarian Universalist, The Way International, The Boston Church, Children of God.


Actually, what you said is that notions of good and evil were specific to Christianity, you didn't limit it to hell. Since "hell" is a Christian notion, I wouldn't think it likely that non-Christians would adopt it. However, most religions believe that one is held accountable for their actions, contrary to your statement.

I will point out that the majority of your list there are things that are not religions, such as Marxism (political philosophy,) Gypsies (Romani people,) Atheism (contrary to popular Christian belief, not a religion), Buddhism (a "way of life", not a religion) and many others.

So you're wrong in two ways.


“Evil men do evil things. Get over it. Religion at least makes an attempt to curtail it.”

LOL now that’s a good one.. should be more like evil Christian men do evil things… Hilter was a Christian … Castro… Christian… sadam Hussein.. Islam .. another religion that believes in heaven and hell. Birds of a feather if you ask me. Name me an evil Buddahist dictor for me please?


I'm not aware of any Buddhist dictator, evil or not, but Buddhism is not a religion.

Castro is Christian? Where on Earth do you get that belief from?


“The actions of some random politician are now what define Christianity?”

Yup.. that’s right..that’s what people like me think of people like you. You’re all a bunch of stupid hillbillies that got nothing but your guns and your religion.. so wrapped up in your faith to see the world around you.


Funny. I don't own a gun, guess I can't be a Christian, eh? And based on your obvious ignorance, to go along with your bigotry, I would guess that I "see the world around me" a fair bit clearer than you do.


“That's fine. You go ahead with your bigoted and prejudicial beliefs.”

I will… that’s why I’m here… to rock the boat a little. Get used to it.. you’re going to see more and more people like me pop up as time passes.


Well, here's hoping that they, at least, have a bit of knowledge and common sense. Frankly, I find it hilarious that your stated intention is to "go ahead with your bigoted and prejudicial beliefs," as if that's something noble and ideal. Either you don't know what that means, or you are without clue one.

As I said to a poster similar to you in another thread, "Christianity needs no defender when these are the best arguments that you can come up with."



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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“Actually, what you said is that notions of good and evil were specific to Christianity, you didn't limit it to hell. Since "hell" is a Christian notion, I wouldn't think it likely that non-Christians would adopt it. However, most religions believe that one is held accountable for their actions, contrary to your statement.”

I stand by my statement… Christian religion is one of few where practices apply good and evil to their daily lives… yes, most religions held people accountable for their actions in the next life… Hindus call that Karma… However, Hinduism does not recognize any evil force or entity such as the Devil. I won’t go into other examples because I’m not sure what qualifies as a religion to you.

“I'm not aware of any Buddhist dictator, evil or not, but Buddhism is not a religion.”
That’s because Muslims are the bad guys are Muslims, right? That’s still a religion, right? Name an evil Hindu dictator or me then.

“Castro is Christian? Where on Earth do you get that belief from?”
The New York Times – www.time.com...

Cuba’s main religion is Catholicism… his family was Catholic…he was baptized catholic… Maybe he’s not a practicing Catholic.. or a good Catholic… I’m really not sure. The point is that I couldn’t think of any evil Hindus or people who were raised in a Hindu then turned to evil later in life…and neither can you. But according to you that doesn’t matter… because Fidel is not a Christian, he’s a Catholic.. which is different than you …and Buddhism isn’t a religion…. Like most Christians, arguing with you is like chasing ghost. Anything you don’t agree with you just dismiss and saw “well that’s just not true” and I have nothing to back up the fact that I think it’s not true.

"go ahead with your bigoted and prejudicial beliefs,"

I'm not a bigot...a bigot is a person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own... I tolerate Christians every day of my life...I posted in this thread knowing I would just be starting a debate that I could not win, because it's nearly impossible to get a Christian to think outside the box.

Being prejudice means you’re pre-judging.. that your making an assumption. I’m not doing that.. I AM JUDGING. I know Christians very well and I'm passing judgment and I will continue to citizen Christians.

Have a nice day.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Wolf Eyes
“Actually, what you said is that notions of good and evil were specific to Christianity, you didn't limit it to hell. Since "hell" is a Christian notion, I wouldn't think it likely that non-Christians would adopt it. However, most religions believe that one is held accountable for their actions, contrary to your statement.”

I stand by my statement… Christian religion is one of few where practices apply good and evil to their daily lives… yes, most religions held people accountable for their actions in the next life… Hindus call that Karma… However, Hinduism does not recognize any evil force or entity such as the Devil. I won’t go into other examples because I’m not sure what qualifies as a religion to you.


How about it needing to be a religion?

You might want to look into the Hindu asura Rahu, Lord Bhairava (an aspect of Shiva who isn't really a nice guy) and Kroni.


“Castro is Christian? Where on Earth do you get that belief from?”
The New York Times – www.time.com...

Cuba’s main religion is Catholicism… his family was Catholic…he was baptized catholic… Maybe he’s not a practicing Catholic.. or a good Catholic… I’m really not sure.


Okay, news flash for you. Castro is not a practicing Christian. He has persecuted the Church, as is the custom of Communist dictators. Do you believe that we are what we are born, and our actions are not reflective of our beliefs? Castro is a good Christian because he was baptized as an infant, and the anti-religious zeal is not relevant?


"go ahead with your bigoted and prejudicial beliefs,"

I'm not a bigot...a bigot is a person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own... I tolerate Christians every day of my life...I posted in this thread knowing I would just be starting a debate that I could not win, because it's nearly impossible to get a Christian to think outside the box.

Being prejudice means you’re pre-judging.. that your making an assumption. I’m not doing that.. I AM JUDGING. I know Christians very well and I'm passing judgment and I will continue to citizen Christians.


You most certainly are a bigot, as you've demonstrated your intolerance a number of times. Tolerating a person as a person and tolerating their beliefs are two wholly separate matters. Just because you lack the courage to "tell off the Christians" to their face doesn't mean that you are a tolerant person.

And you are most certainly prejudiced, as you've said that you believe all Christians are bad, because you disagree with one of them (George Bush.) That's not only prejudice, but you've set a new bar for the irrationality of it.

You may wish to back peddle from the statements that testify to your bigotry and prejudice, in light of the fact that they've been pointed out to you, and you don't want to be associated (correctly) with racists and homophobes, but they are your words, and your testimony is what labels you, not the observation of it.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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I wasn’t even going to read you post, but I’m glad I did…

“In Hindu belief, Rahu is a snake that swallows the sun or the moon causing eclipses.”

en.wikipedia.org...

Fantastic..here we are right back to astrology again.. which was my first point that I made -> That every religion can be traced back thousands of years to earlier religions and cultures, which worshipped the Sun and the stars. Christianity and Hinduism are both included there.

Thanks for pointing that out for me and for proving my point further.. which is that your religion is a hacked up re-written version of an older religion. Since we know why the sun does what it does now, religion is used as a form of mind control to give people the idea that they need to act a certain way, go to church and donate money to church so they can get into heaven. The reality is, a guy like me.. who drinks.. smokes.. and f*cks, is going to the same after life as a good Christian boy like you. That idea probably burns you up inside.

When did I say all Christians were bad? Now you’re just making stuff up and putting words in my mouth…I said all Christians are the same as in you believe the same things and view the world the same way. My point is that Christianity is a bad religion. Christianity deserves to be criticized because it produces more bad thing than good things.. like war. It’s not a passive religion that minds it’s own business. It’s a money making business that is imposed across the world, especially in 3rd world countries.… that goes for ALL Christians… Catholics, Lutherans, born against.. all of you are the same.

“You may wish to back peddle from the statements that testify to your bigotry and prejudice, in light of the fact that they've been pointed out to you, and you don't want to be associated (correctly) with racists and homophobes, but they are your words, and your testimony is what labels you, not the observation of it. “

Now this statement I really don’t understand … how I’m a racists and a homophobe ?.. LOL

I don’t remember the subject of race coming up at all and I stated multiple times that one of the bad things about Christianity is the fact that gay people are oppressed .. because Christians say being Gay is a sin.. and because of Christianity, gays can’t marry.. I’m defending gay rights and you’re calling me a homophone lol.. that’s rich.

So what’s your story adjensen? I just realized that you’re not even the OP.. he dropped out after page 2. Were you born and raised in North Dakota? Yeah? Awww Geez wiz… what do you know about racism? What do you know about freedom of religion…? are there any Muslims in your neighborhood? I bet you know a lot about homophobia though lol…that's a cute dog in your picture... it’s all starting to make sense now.

Let’s do a search on North Dakota shall we ?!

*North Dakota has the lowest percentage of non-religious people of any state, and it also has the most churches per capita of any state.
*There were an estimated 920 Muslims and 730 Jews in the state in 2000.[37] Three percent of respondents answered "no religion" on the survey, and 6% declined to answer.[35]

en.wikipedia.org...

920 Muslims ! In the whole state ? There were more Muslims than that on the train I took to the city last weekend lol. Most churches per capita than any state!

Now I’m REALLY done arguing with you. Go about your life Christian…just pretend like this convo never happened and go back to church… don’t forget to drop a dollar in the basket.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by marsvoltafan74
 


Have you ever wondered why the new testament was written 100 years after the demise of the Nazarene?



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to DCDAVECLARKE

of course they haven't thought of that... and if they have, they don't care... they don't need proof because they have faith :-)



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Wolf Eyes
“In Hindu belief, Rahu is a snake that swallows the sun or the moon causing eclipses.”

en.wikipedia.org...

Fantastic..here we are right back to astrology again.. which was my first point that I made -> That every religion can be traced back thousands of years to earlier religions and cultures, which worshipped the Sun and the stars. Christianity and Hinduism are both included there.


Not sure what that has to do with anything. One minute, you're saying that Christianity is the only religion that involves good and evil (obviously nonsense) and the next you're saying that they're all the same. Make up your mind.


When did I say all Christians were bad? Now you’re just making stuff up and putting words in my mouth…


When? Yesterday. Is your memory that bad?


If I could criticize only certain Christians or Catholics I would… but I cant… I can’t say George Bush is a bad Christian and you’re a good one. Maybe you’re not the one dropping bombs on innocent people.. but maybe you are the guy standing outside the planned parenthood building protesting abortion… maybe you’re the guy at the town hall meetings that is screaming about the sanctity of marriage… maybe you’re the guy who I saw protesti


You kind of drift off there, but you get the point. "If I could criticize only certain Christians or Catholics I would" is a pretty obvious statement of prejudice and it's tough to see it otherwise. Change the word "Christian" to "African-American" (or whatever stereotype you like) and see if it's still something you'd say.


Now this statement I really don’t understand … how I’m a racists and a homophobe ?.. LOL


Didn't say you were one, I said that you act exactly the same. Except that they think it's okay to hate someone for their skin colour, you think it's okay to hate them for their faith.


So what’s your story adjensen? I just realized that you’re not even the OP.. he dropped out after page 2. Were you born and raised in North Dakota? Yeah? Awww Geez wiz… what do you know about racism? What do you know about freedom of religion…? are there any Muslims in your neighborhood? I bet you know a lot about homophobia though lol…that's a cute dog in your picture... it’s all starting to make sense now.


Well, the stupidity never ends, does it? No, I was not born and raised in North Dakota. I have no idea if there are any Muslims in my neighbourhood, but I don't care, either. Why would I? Their faith is their business, not mine.


920 Muslims ! In the whole state ? There were more Muslims than that on the train I took to the city last weekend lol. Most churches per capita than any state!


What difference does that make? Are you justifying your intolerance because you have Muslims on a train? Are you saying that diversity breeds hatred? The truth of your bigotry comes out more and more with every statement you make.

Yes, you probably should let it go at that.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 07:41 PM
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Christianity is something that will always be criticized regardless of what we do. It is such a big organization with many different sects and a different leader for each sect. It is organized in some places and disorganized in others.

How do you expect for such a big religion to be perfect?

We learn better through understanding our imperfections which is what many fail to do. Christians have done terrible things in the past, present, and will probably do terrible things in the future. That is the human fallacy.

We aren't perfect but we try to learn off of our mistakes. We house many hypocrites, liars, cheats, and etc. But we are the biggest detonators, helpers, and etc.

The reason we are going to be criticized is because we are so big we can't oversee every operation. If some corrupt operation is headed by Christians than the whole organization gets criticized. Little do people know that Christianity is separated in many sects.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 06:23 AM
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"many different sects and a different leader for each sect. It is organized in some places and disorganized in others."

That's precisely why its attacked, because its written by the pen of men's egos!
remember the Nazarene wasn't a christian! he achieved enlightenment ie the Christ consciousness, the trouble is most christians dont understand what that means! some even think that is Jesus's second name lol,,,,



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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you're like talking to a wall lol.. ok forget everything I've said so far because you've missed every point I've tried to make and now we're just making circles now.

"What difference does that make? Are you justifying your intolerance because you have Muslims on a train? Are you saying that diversity breeds hatred? The truth of your bigotry comes out more and more with every statement you make. "

No, I'm saying lack of diversity breeds hatred... lack of knowledge breeds hatred and Christianity breeds hatred. I'm saying you live in your little North Dakota bubble where there is a church on every corner and white people like you in every grocery store. The rest of the people in this world think differently than you do. You said you don't care about Muslims and that that their faith is none of your business? Explain that to the rest of your Christian friends. Explain that to the people that are protesting the new Mosque in NYC. Those are the Christians I see every day. The ones that do impose their faith on to other people. The ones that protest gay rights and abortion. The ones that invade other countries and the catholic missionaries that go to African and impose religion on the native people there... those are the Christians I know, and those are ones I dislike... a good boy like you makes no difference to me and I do not care where you spend your Sundays. The topic of this post isn't the “unfair criticism of adjensen” it’s the unfair criticism of Christianity. You keep defending yourself and people like you and not your religion as a whole.

I care that your religion effects America's foreign and domestic policy. If that makes me a prejudice bigot than so be it. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must a duck. Excuse me for pointing out the obvious. The people who rule this world just so happen to be Christians. If the united states main religion was Hinduism, I don’t think we would have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Not because they people in charge wouldn’t still want to be there, but because the American people wouldn’t allow it.

DID I SPELL THAT OUT FOR YOU CLEAR ENOUGH YET? As long as Christians keep trying to dominate and control the world, I'm going to criticize.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Wolf Eyes
you're like talking to a wall lol.. ok forget everything I've said so far because you've missed every point I've tried to make and now we're just making circles now.


I'd quite like to forget everything that you've said so far, as it has been nonsense, untruths and bigotry. If you would like to retract it all and start over, that's fine with me.


I'm saying lack of diversity breeds hatred... lack of knowledge breeds hatred and Christianity breeds hatred. I'm saying you live in your little North Dakota bubble where there is a church on every corner and white people like you in every grocery store. The rest of the people in this world think differently than you do.


You're continuing to make ridiculous blanket statements which further my point, not your own.

Yes, I live in North Dakota. Have for quite some time. I look around me, most of the people, though not all, are similar to me. You say that you live in New York City (a fine place, by the way, I was there twice last year) and people are diverse. By your argument, I should be going to rallies every Tuesday and NYC should be a pretty sedate place, politically.

However, I, Mr. "Isolated," do not protest gay rights or abortions. I have not been asked my opinion on this mosque, but if I was, I would say "go ahead and build it. You say more about yourself by doing so and ignoring people who are hurt by it, but that's up to you."

Are these people who are protesting the mosque, are they protesting because they are Christians, or are they protesting because they are Americans? Are they protesting because they hate Islam, or are they protesting because they believe this proximity to Ground Zero is in poor taste?

I have not been to a political rally of any sort since I was at university about 30 years ago. I do not vote for political candidates because they claim to represent Christian values... in fact I view that as a reason to be more wary of that person.

Beyond your misrepresentations of my faith, I do not care one iota what your beliefs are. If you want to worship Jesus, Allah, Mars or the tree in your backyard, knock yourself out, I don't care. I have friends who are Jewish, Hindu, Christian and non-religious, I see no reason not to be friend with them.

You, on the other hand, carry the exact opposite views -- you've deluded yourself into believing that George Bush, or nut jobs like Fred Phelps, in some way represent the Christian faith, and therefore all Christians are to be hated. You care very much who I worship -- it's the whole of your analysis of who I am.

Most politicians, rulers, whatever label you want to put on "the powers that be" have their own agendas, and those agendas rarely have anything to do with Christ's teaching. Was George Bush sincere in his belief that "God was on his side" in this conflict? Yes, I think that he was. Would he have taken the same path if he did not have this belief? I see no reason that he would not, since Christianity was not the reason for doing it.

Separate motivation from motivator and you will think much more clearly.


DID I SPELL THAT OUT FOR YOU CLEAR ENOUGH YET? As long as Christians keep trying to dominate and control the world, I'm going to criticize.


If they were trying to dominate and control the world for Christianity, you might have a point with those who were doing it but there is no call for your bigotry and prejudice because of your perceptions, which are wrong.

As I said before, being a bigot towards ANY group, whether you think you can justify it or not, casts your lot with all other bigots -- racists and homophobes are your brothers in hate. If you find that offensive, I would suggest looking in the mirror and asking what the difference between your irrational hatred and theirs is.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 09:03 AM
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You're right, I'm just a prejudice bigot. I think the world would be a better place with out religion and I think Christianity is the cause of more bad in this world than any other religion. You say it's not the faith that is the problem it's just the people who don't follow the faith correctly… if your faith is so great and so inspiring then why are there so many bad Christians? Are all people born corrupt or are they made that way? I like to think we’re all born innocent and choose the path we take in this world.

I will continue to criticize Christianity as long as it is the dominate religion on this planet. I might not be able to convince an older man like you that you do not need religion to live a happy life, but there are many generations under yours that I can convince. Yes, I'm age prejudice as well. I know there is no getting to you because you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

The average age of a senator is 60 and the average age of a member of the House is 55. At any point in time at least 75% of all Senators and Congress people were Christians. That’s your demographic right there.

Did those people declare war on Iraq and Afghanistan in the name of religion? No, they did not.. but they still authorized our troops to go to war with a nation that did not attack the US and they didn't think twice about it. I don’t see them taking up arms and joining the troops by the way. I’m not pointing a finger at George Bush or another individual. That’s about 300 important people I’m point fingers at. Anyone who voted for war. That says something and I don't care what your argument against me is. What are you going to say, their are 300 or so bad Christians in the U.S. government?

Most of our brave soldiers don’t even know why they are going to war. I was listening to radio show the other day … an Army ranger called in.. he was about to be deployed to Afghanistan. The host of the show asked him why he thought he was going over there, he said “we’re going over there to kick some ass sir" the host then asked.. who’s ass are you going to kick? He replied, “anyone that has a towel on their head Sir.”

White Christian people between the age of 50-60 are running this country and they are running into the ground.. that's your generation and your faith, not mine. People like you send people like me to war in foreign countries for money and power and you tell us we’re doing it for America, for democracy and for God. “God bless our troops”. I hear that all the time.

Thomas Jefferson was 33 when he wrote the US constitution… he wanted separation of church and state.

“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782”

You can think your different than the rest, but you're not. I'm younger than you and I accept the fact that the majority of people from my generation don’t give a crap about politics or what goes on in the world. I believe it's my duty to fix that. Perhaps it's your duty to convince your Christians friends to be better Christians since they are giving your faith a bad name.

You can throw your hands up in the air and say "it's not me it's them" and say the Christianity is perfect and people are not… but that’s not going to change anything. I’m trying to change things.. one person at a time and 1 ATS thread at a time. What are you doing besides making excuses and crying that people unfairly judge Christianity?

“My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there. “

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Smith



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by Wolf Eyes
 


Sorry, I'm not 60. Not even 50. I went to university a little early, but whatever.

You seem to suffer under the delusion that a) everyone who claims to be a Christian follows the teachings of Christ and b) any decision that any Christian ever makes is done completely in the name of God. These are both wildly inaccurate, and if you honestly believe them, you have little to no understanding of people.

You're young, you're idealistic, you're misinformed, and you'll eventually understand that the world works the way that it does because it does, and your personal feelings about what's fair, what's not, and the way that things ought to be don't amount to a whole lot.


"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)


Ah, the wisdom of old men, lol.

You decry the decisions that politicians have made in the United States, and somehow pass that off as "Christian warmongering", but I assume that you are aware that hundreds of millions of people died in the 20th Century at the hands of non-Christian politicians. Politicians that shared your anti-religious fervor, in fact. Well, seeing as how you thought that Castro was Christian, maybe you weren't aware of it. Study Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot. See if that's the kind of world you want to live in.

Have you ever noticed the motto of ATS? "Deny Ignorance". You don't deny ignorance, you embrace it, and somehow think that it makes you better. I fail to see how that's the case.

You will win few arguments and make few allies by continuing down your current path of ignorance and intolerance. Wake up to the fact that your assumptions are wrong, your judgements are wrong, and your attitude toward your fellow man is not just wrong, it's morally repugnant.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by adjensen]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Wolf Eyes
 


It is one of the most negative religions that I have observed as well.

The fact that you can get billions of people to believe a man HAD to die...that this plan is DIVINE....places blood on Billions of peoples hands.

The karmic debt in that very thought is unthinkable on such a large scale of people.

In one breath...they say to not kill.

In the next, they agree...he had to be killed.

I agree, the concept of this religion is not healthy for humanity.



posted on Aug, 28 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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Whereas I have old age pension.

adjensens comment to Wolf Eyes:

"You seem to suffer under the delusion that a) everyone who claims to be a Christian follows the teachings of Christ and b) any decision that any Christian ever makes is done completely in the name of God. These are both wildly inaccurate, and if you honestly believe them, you have little to no understanding of people."

Agreed. The only thing, which seems to be common for all socalled 'christians' are the bibles (some of which are even similar) and a hijacking of Jesus' name. Seen through rational eyes, through common sense, through the 'faith' of other organised religions, through epistemology, in a social context, on a historical basis, the bible is a mish-mash of nonsense, selfcontradiction, vagueness and commands of totalitarian brutality.

The doctrines are circular argumentation or just pure fabrications spread through brainwashing or violence.

But compared to the famous/infamous pauline faith postulate, such critic is ofcourse invalid. So it's a pity, that 'christians' can't agree amongst themselves on which of the 34.000 christian 'faiths' is the correct one.

By I'm sure, that many of these internally disputing 'christians' would enlighten me. E.g. by referring me to such profound source-material as 'KingDavid8'.

Totally rejecting 'christian' claims of supreme knowledge, religious domination, intolerance etc. doesn't imply a support of other totalitarian ideologies as e.g. nazism or stalinism.

Though in 'christian' oration, only black/white options exist.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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Hey adjensen… sorry I didn’t reply back but you didn’t really say anything worth commenting on in your last post. I don’t get the point of your Churchill quote either..

Anyway, I saw this article today and it made me think of you so here you go. I’m posting this to try to prove my point again and that is that Christianity breeds hate and it does more harm than good. Christianity might be good for you but it’s not good for America. I did not assume the events described in this article .. that’s just what happened. Excuse me for reading the news.

“Federal officials are investigating a fire that started overnight at the site of a new Islamic center in a Nashville suburb…… the fire, which burned construction equipment at the future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, is being ruled as arson”

“Shelton was among several hundred demonstrators who recently wore "Vote for Jesus" T-shirts and carried signs that said "No Sharia law for USA!," referring to the Islamic code of law.”

Vote for Jesus adjensen


www.cbsnews.com...

reply to bogomill

“Though in 'Christian' oration, only black/white options exist”

Thank you that was the point I was trying to make… heaven and hell.. good and evil…ect.

AsI stated previously… I can’t citizens just the “bad Christians” or the ones that don’t follow the faith correctly.. and since there are so many different sects as you mentioned, I have lumped them all into one Christian category for the purpose of this thread. The OP and adjensen think Christians are unfairly criticized.. I think they need to be criticized more.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Wolf Eyes
Hey adjensen… sorry I didn’t reply back but you didn’t really say anything worth commenting on in your last post. I don’t get the point of your Churchill quote either..


No, I didn't think that you would, lol.


Christianity might be good for you but it’s not good for America. I did not assume the events described in this article .. that’s just what happened. Excuse me for reading the news.


I'm not sure that I'll excuse you for your biased reading of the news. There are how many Christians in the United States? 150 million? By your logic, there should be mosque burnings nightly, with that many crazies out there.

Contrast how many people Christians killed in the name of God last year to the number of Christians who were killed for their beliefs. Contrast what's "good for America" by taking an unbiased view of a secular, anti-religious country like the Soviet Union, Communist China, or Cuba. Oh, oops on that last one, I forgot that Fidel Castro is a Christian, lol.



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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Where did you get that 150 million figure from? You must be including Catholics if you’re throwing that figure around since there are only 300m people in the US.

By the 2010 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches... the five largest denominations are

The Catholic Church, 68,115,001 members
The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,228,438 members
The United Methodist Church, 7,853,987 members
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5,974,041 members
Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members

en.wikipedia.org...

So Catholics ARE Christians… right?

“As I am not Catholic, I am probably not the right person to ask to defend their faith.”

You are defending their faith because you’re a Christian and Catholics are Christians. You need to pick a side on this debate. First you separate yourself from Catholics now when you’re trying to make a point against me, now you’re lumping yourself in with them again.

“By your logic, there should be mosque burnings nightly, with that many crazies out there.”

No, but how about other crimes?! Here are a few links I found. I went to Google, I typed in “Catholic”, then I went to “News”. All of these were on the first page. I didn’t have to hunt for these articles and the oldest one was published YESTERDAY. I am right.. Catholics commit crimes daily. I tired the same method with “Buddhist” and “Hindu” and I didn’t find any scandals. Oh that’s right, those aren’t religions according to you.

www.nytimes.com... - Belgium: Cardinal Apologizes for Suggesting Temporary Cover-Up of Bishop’s Abuse
www.nationalturk.com... Teacher canning students in Thailand Catholic boarding school caught on camera
www.google.com... = German bishops expand sex abuse guidelines
www.miamiherald.com... - South Florida investigators are looking for a counselor and former Catholic priest who allegedly planted child pornography on the computer of another former priest.


“anti-religious country like the Soviet Union, Communist China, or Cuba.”

Where do you get your facts from Adjensen.. the other Christians in your Church? You never put up any sources for these claims you make.. I do… China has freedom of religion.. here is 1 source… chineseculture.about.com...#
“Citizens of China may freely choose and express their religious beliefs, and make clear their religious affiliations.”

"I forgot that Fidel Castro is a Christian, lol."

I don’t understand why you find that funny… he is or was a Christian

www.cuba.cu... - SPEECH BY COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF FIDEL CASTRO AT THE CLOSING OF THE INTERNATIONAL MEETING ECONOMIA’98. International Conference Center, Havana. 3 July 1998

“I feel a great respect for all religions. The Christian religion was the one I best knew, for I spent 12 years —as some of you probably did too—as a boarding student in religious Catholic schools, in a sort of apartheid, as I call the separation we were subject to, since coeducation did not exist. We were over there, secluded, we couldn't even go out in the street, and the girls were also secluded in other similar schools for our privileged class, they couldn't even go out in the street.”

Straight from his own mouth, he spent 12 years in a Catholic boarding school. I didn't I say he was a practicing Catholic or Christian. I said Hitler and Castro were both Christians, meaning they were raised Christian/come from a Christian background or are Christian. Also that someone raised Buddhist probably won’t grow up to be an evil dictator.

You've missed that point missed about 3 times now.

me = ROFL



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Wolf Eyes
So Catholics ARE Christians… right?

“As I am not Catholic, I am probably not the right person to ask to defend their faith.”

You are defending their faith because you’re a Christian and Catholics are Christians. You need to pick a side on this debate. First you separate yourself from Catholics now when you’re trying to make a point against me, now you’re lumping yourself in with them again.


Of course Catholics are Christians. As I am not Catholic, I am probably not the right person to ask to defend their faith.

You do understand the concepts of doctrine and theology, right? I am not a Catholic, hence there are better people to defend Catholic doctrine and theology. If you wish to criticize Christians, go right ahead, but you cannot use Catholic doctrine and theology to criticize Christians, only Catholics.


I tired the same method with “Buddhist” and “Hindu” and I didn’t find any scandals. Oh that’s right, those aren’t religions according to you.


No, Buddhism is not a religion, Hinduism is.

Your belief is apparently that if a Christian commits a crime, it's because they're a Christian, but if a Hindu, Buddhist or Atheist does, it has nothing to do with their faith? Sensible approach to bolster your bigotry, not real defensible in a debate, though.

Here's a link to the treatment of Christians by Hindus, though: en.wikipedia.org...

And I would suggest you spend a few minutes reading about Kashmir (the district in India, not the Led Zeppelin song, lol)


“anti-religious country like the Soviet Union, Communist China, or Cuba.”

Where do you get your facts from Adjensen.. the other Christians in your Church? You never put up any sources for these claims you make.. I do… China has freedom of religion.. here is 1 source… chineseculture.about.com...#
“Citizens of China may freely choose and express their religious beliefs, and make clear their religious affiliations.”


Do you when the Cultural Revolution took place? Do you think it makes any difference what things are like in China today, to what happened in the past? Even so, here's the current state of religious freedom in China:


The communist government of the People's Republic of China tries to maintain tight control over all religions, so the only legal Christian Churches (Three-Self Patriotic Movement and Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association) are those under the Communist Party of China control. Churches which are not controlled by the government are shut down, and their members are imprisoned.
(Source: en.wikipedia.org... and you might enjoy the rest of that page, as well -- it's a nice testimony to tolerant people like you :-)

Between the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, your anti-religious hero Mao Zedong killed about 21 million of his own people.


"I forgot that Fidel Castro is a Christian, lol."

I don’t understand why you find that funny… he is or was a Christian

Straight from his own mouth, he spent 12 years in a Catholic boarding school.


Again, you seem to lack a basic understanding of time. Just as China's policies today have no effect on people who died 50 years ago, Castro's repudiation of religion and persecution of the church demonstrate that being raised as a Catholic obviously has no bearing on his actions.


You've missed that point missed about 3 times now.

me = ROFL


Your ignorance is indeed laughable!

[edit on 31-8-2010 by adjensen]



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