The ATS UFO Section is lacking progress!

Originally posted by Copernicus
Yes, that is the purpose of a cover-up - to conceal information so scientific evidence cannot be put forward.

Funny that. It seems to me like that's exactly what you are doing by dodging my questions. Covering up my just saying "Oh, that doesn't fit my frame of mind at the moment and so I'll just ignore it and hope that it will go away".

Perhaps I'll start up a disclosure project for 'believers' were they actually let us in on this magical loop of knowledge they have but don't wish to disclose.

-m0r

reply to post by Copernicus

Hi all,

Hello

This will not become a popular post, but im making it anyway. Its about something I have noticed.

No need to pander to your peers.

There is no education going on here in the UFO section.

I'm sorry but I've shared and discovered information old and new, just recently I posted a thread about the legitimacy of ufology and I am still reading the information shared by other members, this is something to appreciate,

People are not finding out about new whistle blowers or information in a coherent and easy way.

"whistle blowers" find us...

There is no progression once you have realized aliens exist and that they are visiting the planet.
All you have is a constant stream of blurry pictures and people debating weather its a UFO, a optical illusion, a bird or a rocket. And there is no way to see that from the picture alone. So its ultimately useless, at least to the people who have informed themselves, mostly from other sources, and found out that aliens are real.

Ufology is 99% bull# and 1% convincing, this is the task you have set yourself, you must inform the uniformed while always be willing to learn yourself, knowledge can be gained even by the ridiculous.

THE best contributor to the UFO disclosure project that is actually going on right now, only not through official channels such as Obama or the government, is Project Camelot. There is little to no discussion about this on ATS. Why is that?

Project Camelot should promote themselves better, The medium is the message.

Which brings me to the reason in my opinion. The skeptics and/or non-believers. They are, by their actions, preventing and disrupting people from having discussions leading forward about this subject. Look - I get it, I really do. They dont believe aliens exist. They want evidence. And they tend to come into threads with their doubts, often rude and dismissive, and demand evidence to believe what other people are believing. So almost any thread becomes about convincing them! Why are we doing this? We are making no progress. This section should not be about convincing skeptics, it should be about learning more about this subject.

I am hardly looking in this section as it is. And this post is to highlight the reason for it. Even though I dont think it will make one bit of a difference, I wanted to make it anyway. Who knows, perhaps someone else agrees with me. But most will disagree, I know. That is the nature of the beast at this time.

Skepticism and ignorance should be the wind in your feathers, you just need to look at it in an all new way

Originally posted by Seventytwo
Skepticism and ignorance should be the wind in your feathers, you just need to look at it in an all new way

Good post of yours, but could you elaborate on this since its possible to interpret it differently depending on perception.

Originally posted by Copernicus

Hi all,

Hi.

This will not become a popular post, but im making it anyway. Its about something I have noticed.

Threads bashing skeptics are quite popular here on ATS.

There is no education going on here in the UFO section.

There is plenty of education going on. I see people getting educated about the folly of following "cults" and "project" groups all the time on ATS.

People are not finding out about new whistle blowers or information in a coherent and easy way.

I beg to differ, the standard of whistler blowers or information that is presented is usually incoherent in nature, if not blatantly fraudulent. There is a long history of this surrounding the field.

There is no progression once you have realized aliens exist and that they are visiting the planet.

What progression are you suggesting we make. Maybe form a religious group like Scientology? Were we just submit to a "belief" that relies on a matter of faith when "realizing aliens exist"?

All you have is a constant stream of blurry pictures and people debating weather its a UFO, a optical illusion, a bird or a rocket. And there is no way to see that from the picture alone. So its ultimately useless, at least to the people who have informed themselves, mostly from other sources, and found out that aliens are real.

Lets me get this clear, you claim people inform themselves on blurry pictures, that inspire debate regarding the true nature of the images, that they are ultimately useless and you need to form a belief in the existence of aliens from other sources?
WHAT OTHER SOURCES? Opinion, Testimony? Join a prayer group if you want that kind of progress.

THE best contributor to the UFO disclosure project that is actually going on right now, only not through official channels such as Obama or the government, is Project Camelot. There is little to no discussion about this on ATS. Why is that?

First of all, PC is not the best contributer, they contribute alot of stuff but it is garbage. I have spent hours and hours reviewing interviews with Dean, Wilcock, Icke, Jordan, Greer, Sparks, O'leary,Stone, O'finian, Lear etc etc.( they even attacked ATS in a Lear interviews as a debunkers site, if you actually knew PC and the interviews and material you would be aware of this).
Many of the above, as well as others like Knight-Jadczyk, Hoagland, Collier, Dolan, Tellinger, Dan Sherman all sell us the "real world" and give us nothing.

These are just a few of the long list of "disclosure" experts and "insiders" or "whistleblowers" that have delivered zip, but all have plenty of books to sell and conferences to attend or websites that need donations.
If this is the progress that you are after, then build a library, because all we get is books and Dvd's from this lot.

Which brings me to the reason in my opinion. The skeptics and/or non-believers. They are, by their actions, preventing and disrupting people from having discussions leading forward about this subject.

Really. Was it the sceptics who stopped Bassett when he threatened the US government to disclose or else?
Was it the sceptics who stopped Wilcocks when he declared there would be a disclosure last year?
Who has stopped Greer from proclaiming:

There was communication through radar detectors, a magnetometer, sounds of ET visitors running through the field-work site, craft that were briefly fully materialized and more. You don't want to miss the first hand accounts from Dr. Greer and Linda.

www.worldpuja.org...
On his website, but hey they can only tell us it happened first hand, we just have to move forward and believe. Isn't that what people do with the bible, they just get told it happened in a story and then they just believe it, is that what you mean by making progress in this field?

from claiming that Look - I get it, I really do.

I don't think you get it at all.

They dont believe aliens exist. They want evidence. And they tend to come into threads with their doubts, often rude and dismissive, and demand evidence to believe what other people are believing.

Lets look at the equation again.
Because we see people come into threads with their beliefs with no support for those beliefs and they are often rude and dismissive of questions, and demand that people just believe what they believe and then tell us that this is progress.
We see alot of that.
That is what is stopping progress in this field.
It is called reality.
Not skepticism.
Reality is stopping your progress, because your progress is defined as that which supports a belief rather then finding the truth and forming a belief from that.

So almost any thread becomes about convincing them!

Yes, because all that is usually presented in those threads are personal beliefs and opinions supported by Videos from people like Project Camelot et al who also, only present personal beliefs and opinions.

Why are we doing this? We are making no progress.

Ask yourself why is it that PC rehash the same individuals all the time?
Why the same claims, the same declarations of "disclosure". With no evidence or actual disclosure or any progress other than a new book, a new conference, a new Dvd, a new website.........

This section should not be about convincing skeptics, it should be about learning more about this subject.

The more you learn, the greater your skepticism will develop in this field. The longer you go on, the more promises you will see broken, the more stories you will see contradict themselves, the more declarations you will hear that will bear no fruit, the more "disclosure announcements" you will mark in your calender that will pass without event.
You'll lose count of the "alien" races that are apparently interacting with us, you'll start to confuse the psychics that contact ET's for the "ex-military" insiders who have seen them. You'll try to remember what the name of that secret "technology" was that the "government" is hiding and you'll wonder if your flu vaccine is alien DNA or if the weather is real or broadcast from HAARP. That is all you'll get from Project Camelot. And you can have it. Its yours to have. Just don't expect others too swallow it.


Have you ever taken that into account, that the skeptics here on ATS share your passion, but experience and knowledge has refined opinions and helped set a standard in order to progress?

I am hardly looking in this section as it is. And this post is to highlight the reason for it. Even though I dont think it will make one bit of a difference, I wanted to make it anyway. Who knows, perhaps someone else agrees with me. But most will disagree, I know. That is the nature of the beast at this time.

Yes, it seems that many people have a hard time accepting the nature of reality and it is this beast that will often destroy the nature of fantasy. Do not fret, Project Camelot will serve you well when reality does not. It seems that you already see this as a path of progress.
We'll be here when you wake up.

reply to post by Copernicus


Let the skeptics be the wind in your sails: Push you further, give you the momentum to find out more.

Skeptics are a good thing in a way that they connect you to your intuition.

Those who object of any significance of the subject are skeptics of themselves.

reply to post by Seventytwo


I dont need skeptics for any of those things personally, but its possible that others might.

Thank you.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus

I dont need skeptics for any of those things personally, but its possible that others might.

Thank you.

I'll admit your recent trolling on the Aliens & UFO forums has irritated me. You've brought nothing of benefit...just criticism. I look at your profile and you've posted 3 threads in over two years in this section...out of over 70. It's not much and they aren't even good threads..

The first thread was closed for discussing something already in another thread...here (2008).

The second thread is this one right here. Without a history of posting in this section, you've decided to criticise the content and thereby the members of the forum. What progress do you represent?

The third one was this week. It received a star (from me) and involved you refusing to discuss the content of your own OP. It also centred on a video from over a year ago by Exopolitics. It was left alone because you wouldn't comment on the video. You basically trolled your own thread...pretty funny...here.

Your current ignorance about the A&U forums explains why you feel able to post this BS thread with no more evidence than a knee-jerk opinion. There are hundreds of high-quality threads in this section and plenty of well-informed members. Added to that are plenty of newcomers using these forums to learn more about it.

Looking at your profile, you've had applause and some people have even got you as a 'sharp friend.' Although you haven't considered any of them 'sharp' enough to add as friends, it does show that you're not a bad guy really. Possibly, you've just got off on the wrong foot in this section?

Instead of criticising A&U and lending a bad impression of yourself, why not stop posting and read the forums? Find your way a little? Feel free to u2u me and I'll point you in the direction of some good threads you could contribute to. It sure beats standing over in the corner and complaining.

Not exactly sure what you're looking for, OP?

If ATS has too high a standard for your beliefs, then take them elsewhere.
Many many members here do believe that the UFO phenomenon is real and of an other worldly nature, but that doesn't mean that they are going to ingest every piece of material put forth. 95 percent of UFOlogy is horse#. If you aren't aware of that then you need to re educate yourself on the subject.

See, when you keep listening to PC and you never get a view from the other side or the "skeptic", then you're limiting your education on the subject. To truly learn the truth you have to view all sides of a subject.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by spinalremain]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
I'll admit your recent trolling on the Aliens & UFO forums has irritated me. You've brought nothing of benefit...just criticism. I look at your profile and you've posted 3 threads in over two years in this section...out of over 70. It's not much and they aren't even good threads..

From my perspective, you are the one trolling. Imagine that.

If you dont like my thread or posts, ATS has a function where you can ignore me and my posts. Please use it. I also get irritated by certain people here, mostly by the ones who are incapable of understanding another point of view. But I can handle it most of the time.

As for my actual posting in this section, yes, its not frequent. I do read a lot though. Most of the blurry picture threads are a waste of time for reasons Ive mentioned earlier in the thread, but I guess they appeal to some. I would however like to see more progression and more discussions about something else than "do they exist?". Its obvious that they do to me. Its a given. But perhaps I am not the target audience.

However, the best advice given to me in this thread was "be the change you want to see". I might give that a shot and see what happens.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The first thread was closed for discussing something already in another thread...here (2008).

The second thread is this one right here. Without a history of posting in this section, you've decided to criticise the content and thereby the members of the forum. What progress do you represent?

The third one was this week. It received a star (from me) and involved you refusing to discuss the content of your own OP. It also centred on a video from over a year ago by Exopolitics. It was left alone because you wouldn't comment on the video. You basically trolled your own thread...pretty funny...here.

Hopefully you find other threads you enjoy more. I have found that its better to focus on the things progressing your knowledge than to focus on things you disagree with or dislike.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Your current ignorance about the A&U forums explains why you feel able to post this BS thread with no more evidence than a knee-jerk opinion. There are hundreds of high-quality threads in this section and plenty of well-informed members. Added to that are plenty of newcomers using these forums to learn more about it.

There is no need to post in the forum to get a sense for what other people post here.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Looking at your profile, you've had applause and some people have even got you as a 'sharp friend.' Although you haven't considered any of them 'sharp' enough to add as friends, it does show that you're not a bad guy really. Possibly, you've just got off on the wrong foot in this section?

Did I? The applause must have been from a long time ago when I was active in the 9/11 discussions. Those were the times.

I think you are projecting a bit here. You have to understand that I dont care about my profile and I dont keep it up-to-date or use it to add friends or foes. So if you use my profile to see what kind of person I am, you will end up with the wrong conclusions. I could be a very bad guy. Watch out.

Instead of criticising A&U and lending a bad impression of yourself, why not stop posting and read the forums? Find your way a little? Feel free to u2u me and I'll point you in the direction of some good threads you could contribute to. It sure beats standing over in the corner and complaining.

Constructive criticism is always valuable. You should try it.

Thanks for your post!


[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus
Okay.

Now we've each had our say, the offer still stands. If you want some links to good ATS A&U threads or A&U sites, just ask. Either me or other folk will be happy to provide some for you.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Thank you.

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

In my humble opinion..... This thread has simply degenerated into a "Skeptics vs Believers" thread, like the 800 before it. Kind regards Maybe...maybe not

My point precisely.

Now you're getting the idea MMN!

This is a classic example of what goes on in the UFO forum, to every single thread posted.

It's not about getting at the truth of a matter any longer, it simply and rapidly degrades into an intellectual 'mines bigger than yours' contest, where there is no progress.

There is very little genuine skepticism, and a whole shed load of cynicism, more often than not, spiteful and browbeating in it's intent.

So, ultimately those who are genuine skeptics, who wish to examine and analyse cannot because of the nonsense.

Those who are not skeptical and wish to learn, refine and discuss a given thread from the viewpoint of someone who does believe cannot make any headway either.

The only winners are the snipe merchants in the end.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by Copernicus

 

I dont need skeptics for any of those things personally, but its possible that others might.

Thank you.

I'll admit your recent trolling on the Aliens & UFO forums has irritated me. You've brought nothing of benefit...just criticism. I look at your profile and you've posted 3 threads in over two years in this section...out of over 70. It's not much and they aren't even good threads..

The first thread was closed for discussing something already in another thread...here (2008).

The second thread is this one right here. Without a history of posting in this section, you've decided to criticise the content and thereby the members of the forum. What progress do you represent?

The third one was this week. It received a star (from me) and involved you refusing to discuss the content of your own OP. It also centred on a video from over a year ago by Exopolitics. It was left alone because you wouldn't comment on the video. You basically trolled your own thread...pretty funny...here.

Your current ignorance about the A&U forums explains why you feel able to post this BS thread with no more evidence than a knee-jerk opinion. There are hundreds of high-quality threads in this section and plenty of well-informed members. Added to that are plenty of newcomers using these forums to learn more about it.

Looking at your profile, you've had applause and some people have even got you as a 'sharp friend.' Although you haven't considered any of them 'sharp' enough to add as friends, it does show that you're not a bad guy really. Possibly, you've just got off on the wrong foot in this section?

Instead of criticising A&U and lending a bad impression of yourself, why not stop posting and read the forums? Find your way a little? Feel free to u2u me and I'll point you in the direction of some good threads you could contribute to. It sure beats standing over in the corner and complaining.

Him and UFOmaster are probably brothers.


All you're doing Copernicus, is presenting your opinion as fact. And flaming anyone who disagrees.

So in essence, you're setting up the perfect little argument. That's ignorance on the order of UFOmaster (provided he isn't a troll).

So have fun.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by SaosinEngaged]

Originally posted by SaosinEngaged
All you're doing Copernicus, is presenting your opinion as fact. And flaming anyone who disagrees.

So in essence, you're setting up the perfect little argument. That's ignorance on the order of UFOmaster (provided he isn't a troll).

I love how in your perception I am doing the flaming.

Really shows how different we can view things.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

reply to post by atlasastro

Were we just submit to a "belief" that relies on a matter of faith

If faith is good enough for billions of people who would stake their very lives on their belief in a creator deity, it's certainly good enough for people who intuitively believe in ET's and their craft coming to our planet.

And there's a hell of a lot more evidence, however anecdotal or circumstantial that evidence may be, for ET and UFO's, than there is for a creator deity, yet billions of people claim their particular deity is the 'truth', and espouse their religious stories as fact, without any shred of proof.

Billions of people.

Originally posted by Copernicus
If you dont like my thread or posts, ATS has a function where you can ignore me and my posts. Please use it. I also get irritated by certain people here, mostly by the ones who are incapable of understanding another point of view. But I can handle it most of the time.

Can you? This thread is certainly not indicative of your claimed ability to handle differing opinions. You have condemned an entire group for a differing opinion, accusing them of hampering the field for wanting evidence, for not subscribing to your beliefs without question.

Originally posted by Copernicus
I would however like to see more progression and more discussions about something else than "do they exist?".

If you think that is far more constructive to discuss other topics, then by all means, do so. However...

Originally posted by Copernicus
Its obvious that they do to me. Its a given.

One has to question if you really want to discuss anything. You believe the know the truth and created this thread to urge others to dismiss those who do not share your outlook. It seems you are less interested in discussion and more interested in proselytizing.

Originally posted by spikey
If faith is good enough for billions of people who would stake their very lives on their belief in a creator deity, it's certainly good enough for people who intuitively believe in ET's and their craft coming to our planet.

Acceptance of an irrational belief does not grant automatic validity to another irrational belief.

Originally posted by spikey
And there's a hell of a lot more evidence, however anecdotal or circumstantial that evidence may be, for ET and UFO's, than there is for a creator deity, yet billions of people claim their particular deity is the 'truth', and espouse their religious stories as fact, without any shred of proof.

Is there?

reply to post by spikey


Every single person on Earth could believe it and it wouldn't make it any more true.

Majority rule does not equal reality. The truth is the truth, regardless of belief.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Can you? This thread is certainly not indicative of your claimed ability to handle differing opinions. You have condemned an entire group for a differing opinion, accusing them of hampering the field for wanting evidence, for not subscribing to your beliefs without question.

Condemned? Now you are really bringing out the cannons!

I have most certainly not done anything along those lines.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
One has to question if you really want to discuss anything. You believe the know the truth and created this thread to urge others to dismiss those who do not share your outlook. It seems you are less interested in discussion and more interested in proselytizing.

It seems you have not clearly understood what the thread was about. It was about this UFO forum not making any progress from my perspective. I define progress as being able to talk about other things than debating weather or not aliens exist. About being able to discuss videos from Project Camelot without getting lots of "these guys are idiots" posts in the thread.

I am interested in discussions but I am not interested in debating weather or not aliens exist with the skeptics. Its a waste of time, for reasons I have mentioned over and over again in this thread. Surely you see how meaningless it all is? You must!

I think my conclusion from this thread is that there is no point posting in this channel for a believer who doesnt want to argue about the existence of aliens. You guys are skeptics and you will not believe aliens exist until you have scientific evidence for their existence. I can live with that.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus
I have most certainly not done anything along those lines.

It is hard to read the third paragraph of your opening post as anything other than a condemnation of skeptics.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
I define progress as being able to talk about other things than debating weather or not aliens exist. About being able to discuss videos from Project Camelot without getting lots of "these guys are idiots" posts in the thread.

It seems you define progress by how many people agree with you. If you are not willing to discuss the pros or cons of any given subject, then you are not truly interested in genuine discussion. You want your beliefs echoed back to you.