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The ATS UFO Section is lacking progress!

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posted on Aug, 7 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Turiddu
If Ufology is to advance as a legitimate field then it needs to be held to the same rigorous standards as other fields.



OMG, this, so hard.

Everyone here wants UFOlogy taken seriously, yet many posters are essentially up in arms defending the legitimacy of totally off-the-wall theories that won't stand up to even the simplest forms of scrutiny.

...but UFOlogy is important and should be taken seriously!

Talk about irony.






[edit on 7-8-2010 by SaosinEngaged]




posted on Aug, 7 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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the UFO issue as I see it is there is more than one kind, there are

a kind that are blinky lights

and a kind that are craft

I have SEEN craft

I haven't seen blinky lights but the videos I see of them suggest that there is no relationship between the two kinds

so I'm thinking there needs to be one branch that deals in craft which probably has the military secrets tie in and one to deal with light balls

and some fit into neither category and appear more as though they are alive so i think of them as a creature

so I think our problem is trying to fit them all into one box

just throwing things out there to if any of it sticks



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 12:26 AM
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Look people,

If you, or anyone such as an Air Force pilot, police officer, or any other well known credible person sees something flying in the sky that they can't identify, and it shows signs of using technology that no one is aware of, this does not mean it is alien. That is the cold hard TRUTH.

You can show all the blurry videos, and all the weird sightings you want, and NONE of it is proof of "aliens". All it is, is proof of a flying object, and maybe proof of advanced technology. There is NOTHING to suggest they are "alien".

NOBODY can "progress" pass the point above unless there is hard evidence that "aliens" are actually flying the objects. Until you see who, or what is flying them, and figure out where they come from, it will always be unknown.

If you wan't to jump to an unproven, unknown, conclusion that they are "aliens' without any hard evidence, go for it. That is known as speculation. If you want to speculate about these "aliens", where they come from, why they are here, etc., go for it. However ALL of that will be fantasy. I am pretty sure a good majority of ATS members want to know the truth and NOT fantasy.

Sure it is fun to speculate, but you get nothing out of it but fantasy and science ficiton. THAT is NOT "progress".

Evidence of a government coverup is NOT evidence of "aliens". If anything, it is evidence that they have toys that they want to keep secret, or other countries have toys that they are interested in knowing about and keeping secret. You can SPECULATE all you wan't, but that is not progress.

To progress you must get better hard evidence. You must find out exactly who or what is flying these unidentified things, and "guessing" is not good enough. UFOlogy will forever be stuck in one spot until there is hard undeniable evidence.

You can create the illusion of progress by jumping to conclusions and speculating, but that is not real progress.

For those that believe aliens exist, and believe they visit us, with very little evidence and large quantities of FAITH... you might want to question your own beliefs before you question other people's beliefs.

Now before you bombard me with videos and stories of things people can't identify, and then hilariously try to identify them as "alien", and use that as evidence, just know this:

I believe "aliens" exist. I believe they could possibly visit Earth. However, I believe that only because I believe anything is possible. It is like blind faith. I KNOW there is ZERO hard evidence of "aliens visiting Earth", all there is is wild speculation at this point. I would LOVE to have or find hard evidence, but I know that it is impossible to get without opening up these UFO's and figuring out where the pilots are from.

Like someone already said, you can't learn about humans by watching them drive by in a car. It goes much further than that.... You can't prove that a human is even driving the car unless you can see inside of the car. And it goes even further than that... You can't prove someone is human just by looking at them.... and the rabbit holes gets deeper and deeper than that...

The point being, nobody has yet to bring forward and type of evidence that the beings controlling UFO's are anything more than human. There will be no "progress" until then, but only "speculation" and the illusion of progress.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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yes nothing more than speculation and fantasy thus far.

Which made me wonder about that;

Say that in 1000 years (or 500 or 2000 whichever you find more realist) we successfully build a fleet of 10 star ships, each which a crew big enough to travel for 24 years without returning home, and ship capable of light speed.

We set forth on exploring the milky way for the purpose of exploring and finding other intelligent species.

Before i go on, just a few infos;
- our sun distance to the center of the milky way 25,000 light years.
- the milky way age. +/- 13 billions years
- diameter, 100,000 light years
- number of stars: 200 billions

for the sake of the example and ease of maths, let say there are 10 solar systems 4 light years away from us so each ship can go and visit them after 4 years of light speed traveling.

And for the sake of the example they need another 4 years to reach another Solar system etc.

After 12 years each ship have visited 3 solar systems and they have to fly back home for 12 years now. So in total after 24 years we have visited 30 Stars.

Now say that during this time we found out a way to fly faster than the speed of light, say 10 times faster. we keep on exploring for another 24 years. except this time, again for the sake of the example, we visit 10 times more stars for a total of 300.

Logically talking i could extrapolate that mapping 200 billions stars and their planets would take minimum (300 / 24) = 12.5 stars visited per year, (200B / 12.5) it would take us 16 billions of years to visit each star in the milky way alone. (there are billions of galaxies in the universe, tho that's another topic)

But let say we are lucky and we find another species after exploring only 10%. this mean we would still need 1.6 billions of years before we make a contact.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

you may say yes, but what if they're more advanced civilizations than us elsewhere? Yes maybe there are but given they are part of the same galaxy and of the same galactic age, they can't logically be millions of years ahead of us technologically talking. maybe they have 10,000 years advance at best? it would still be like finding a needle in a haystack before they find us i think.

Also considering that the big cluster of galaxies we are part of, are all about the same age, traveling to another galaxy is like totally impossible for now and the upcoming millions of years ahead.

Wormholes? they could exist. That would change a lot of things.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Conan The Usurper]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:41 AM
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The entire UFO field of study is lacking progress for roughly the last 50 years. So it's not surprising that this forum seems to be in a rut.

The only thing that has been accomplished over the last 50 years is to document how extensive the sightings and encounters are, and how they're likely and probably not always misidentifications, delusions or outright hoaxes. And perhaps it's been reasonably determined that "real" UFO sightings are actually quite rare.

As for figuring out what the real UFOs are, however, the speculations are the same as they were 60 years ago. Time travelers, aliens, objects or entities from other kinds of reality, etc. Everything that was written in the pulp sci-fi stories from the 1930s.

After all this time, we don't have a single compelling piece of evidence that points specifically to any reasonable explanation. And personally, after over 40 years of interest in the things, I've come to think that maybe we human beings just don't have the right kind of perceptive abilities to figure out and understand what they are. Not that we're stupid. It's just that maybe these things don't exist in the same way we understand existence. Us trying to figure out real UFOs is like your cat trying to understand income taxes.

I still like to speculate, however, even within my limited ability to do so.


[edit on 8-8-2010 by Blue Shift]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 03:15 AM
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OP,the problem here is debunkers and hoaxers.
No matter what people post there is always a debunker waiting in the corner.And the don't just debunk,they insult.It seems to me that they are afraid that if one photo,video or experience proven to be true their whole world will explode.
On the other hand the hoaxers feed the debunkers (maybe they work together:@@
with fake pics and videos,so the first can "prove" to the believers that everything is fake and we are just insane.

So why should anyone bother and post?We keep it to ourselves.I have a lot of pictures taken by myself or friends,a lot of experiences to contribute with(that is the original reason why i joined ATS),but when i realised how things work around here i'd rather keep them to myself.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 03:28 AM
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In my humble opinion.....

This thread has simply degenerated into a "Skeptics vs Believers" thread, like the 800 before it.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 03:30 AM
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The thing I see from all this is, we cannot really make educated guesses on phenomena or UFO's utterly, because we really don't have our finger on what is exactly going on. I mean we have wonderful disclosure projects, and unified teams trying to make contact. But the thing is, we can only make theory's and give "trial and error" type of discussions toward aliens and the crafts they use. I wish we had more details.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by jdmmade
The thing I see from all this is, we cannot really make educated guesses on phenomena or UFO's utterly, because we really don't have our finger on what is exactly going on. I mean we have wonderful disclosure projects, and unified teams trying to make contact. But the thing is, we can only make theory's and give "trial and error" type of discussions toward aliens and the crafts they use. I wish we had more details.


If i were you, prior to "discuss aliens and the craft they use" i would try to first prove without a doubt that there are aliens and aliens crafts, which to these days is still 100% science-fiction.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 04:45 AM
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Is this forum progressing forward any less than any of the other forums on this site? I doubt it. That's the nature of conspiracy and paranormal discussion. Once it's proven it just becomes knowledge and discussion usually isn't needed soon afterward.

Conjecture and belief opposing skepticism and scientific inquiry. What's funny is there are still so many people claiming to dislike all of the skeptic vs believer stuff, yet continue to devolve every thread into one of those arguments.

What that tells me is there isn't enough strong evidence to show anymore, and we've started debating the base philosophical arguments behind the idea in its place.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
In my humble opinion.....

This thread has simply degenerated into a "Skeptics vs Believers" thread, like the 800 before it.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


Well, yes. Perhaps because I blame the skeptics and the non-believers for the state of this forum.

Its obvious that skeptics and non-believers wants Ufology to be held to the same standard as other fields. Its also obvious that this is not possible since there is a cover-up of information. This is the worlds most guarded secret.

Disclosure is slowly making progress through unofficial sources such as Project Camelot since official disclosure is not possible because of the consequences to the government and the military industrial complex.

I dont think this thread will change things. But I do think it has served as information for why people think so differently around this issue, and that is something positive.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by Phantom traveller
So why should anyone bother and post?We keep it to ourselves.I have a lot of pictures taken by myself or friends,a lot of experiences to contribute with(that is the original reason why i joined ATS),but when i realised how things work around here i'd rather keep them to myself.


Yes, this is the natural consequence of the climate here, and that is a large problem. This forum is extreamly one-sided. Just look at this thread. Look at any thread. Skeptics are supporting other skeptics, thats all there is. Because the believers are leaving.

Now, you could say that believers simply dont have what it takes to convince the skeptics. But what if that is not about the believer? What if that is more about skeptics and their perspectives making it impossible for any believer to convince them?

I think that is actually the reality of it.


[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift
The entire UFO field of study is lacking progress for roughly the last 50 years. So it's not surprising that this forum seems to be in a rut.


Its in the rut because people require scientific evidence and will not accept or believe what people are saying. From their perspective, everybody is lying. That does not go well with my view of people in the world, where I feel the absolute majority are honest and the absolute majority wants to help other people. Perhaps your view is different and you feel these guys must be scam artists, trying to make money?

Perhaps this is really all about our subjective perception of other people. Its an interesting idea at least. I like people and I have a good intuition for when someone is lying, and that intuition has served me well when it comes to who I can trust and who I cant. How about you? Do you have/use intuition? Is it telling you that these people are lying?

If you require scientific evidence for this, you will sit there forever not making progress. It should be obvious to all, no?



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 05:14 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by m0r1arty
Coppy,

I am Zarg of the planet Fnarr and I have been set here on Earth to observe your primitive minds.

Do you take what I am saying as fact?


No, and you know I wont. Why do skeptics like you feel the need to be insulting? What do you think that will accomplish?

You post things such as these and then you go offline.

Look. People will not put up with this. Either this disrespectful behavior leads to warnings or this forum will remain in the shape it is today because only new posters will use it, and then leave once they get tired of the abuse.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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Your being insulted does not equal me insulting you.

Believe me were I to insult you there would be no doubt about it in any observers eyes about it, however I do not feel the need to insult you in any way - I am just trying to learn.

Why do you not believe I am Zargg from Fnarr?

What is it that makes my statement folly and someone over at Camelot's worthy?

Please, I really wish to know.

-m0r



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by m0r1arty
Please, I really wish to know.


Im not responding to you anymore in this thread.


[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus

Im not responding to you anymore in this thread.


[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]


I'd be curious about your response to that scenario as well. Why do you believe one stranger's claims about UFOs and not another's about the planet Fnarr? All things being equal, his claim has just as much weight as any other.

You're just too skeptical to open your eyes.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by Copernicus
Im not responding to you anymore in this thread.


What a wonderfully obscene piece of nonsense that is - and edited within seconds of posting too.

So your response to someone, who actually wishes to know how you value things, is to stick your fingers in your ears and go na-na-na?

Isn't this the same as deleting comments from YouTube or Facebook that don't agree with your thinking?

I am asking why you take someone's word over mine regarding whether a tale is fact or fiction and further more I am willing to correspond with you individually regarding the matter - something I don't think you would get from someone at Camelot.

Your 'intuition' is to call me a liar without any facts and then ignore me - isn't that what you are claiming sceptics do to you and what you consider 'credible' research?

BTW; the three billy goats gruff called and say they miss you.

-m0r



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by jdmmade
The thing I see from all this is, we cannot really make educated guesses on phenomena or UFO's utterly, because we really don't have our finger on what is exactly going on. I mean we have wonderful disclosure projects, and unified teams trying to make contact. But the thing is, we can only make theory's and give "trial and error" type of discussions toward aliens and the crafts they use. I wish we had more details.


Yes, that is the purpose of a cover-up - to conceal information so scientific evidence cannot be put forward.

So if you are waiting for that sort of thing, you will wait forever. If you are waiting for "more information", there is plenty of it from people speaking about it. If you believe them. And I cant tell you what to believe. You will have to use your intuition when listening to someone. Are they telling the truth or are they lying? Does what they say ring true to you and is it in accordance with what other people are saying?

Its the only way to find out more right now.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]



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