Atheists should thank Christians for the freedom to NOT believe, wonder if they do?

I thank the founding fathers, who were mostly deist or agnostic, for the freedoms to not believe in religion.

I walked the walk in society - for a while - - but truth is religion and god never made any sense to me.

At 5 years old my gramma drug me to Catholic church. At 5 years old - - I looked around and said: "why does god need all this?" It was like a circus and ridiculous. The people were not friendly - - instead they were very much into doing their rituals right.

Actually - I never accepted the concept of god and religion as a child. I wanted to - but I didn't.

I thank my own intelligence and logic for not believing in religion or a god.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
I thank the founding fathers, who were mostly deist or agnostic, for the freedoms to not believe in religion.

I think maybe your viewpoint is quite limited my friend...

please do some research.. you can start with this very short video...

if you are ready yet?

www.youtube.com...

Without slogging through this thread I'll point out that I was born with the freedom to not believe and will perpetually retain it until death. If I need someone to thank for an egalitarian U.S. Constitution I'd have to render my thanks to the Masons, not the christians.

Also, quotes listed from long-dead religious fanatics pondering the nation's origins whilst fellating their brands of christianity has about as much historical value as a stomped-on junebug. The United States has never been a christian country and hopefully never will.

reply to post by Annee


Annee, that is good that you are at peace...

OT

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
....The United States has never been a christian country and hopefully never will.

Relevance to the OP?

OT

Originally posted by Annee
...into doing their rituals right.

Actually - I never accepted the concept of god and religion as a child. I wanted to - but I didn't.
...

Interesting way you put that...could you elaborate on the "want to" part? Why? Curious?

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by WolfofWar
I thank the founding fathers, who were mostly deist or agnostic, for the freedoms to not believe in religion.

I think maybe your viewpoint is quite limited my friend...

please do some research.. you can start with this very short video...

if you are ready yet?

The founding fathers were British subjects who were subject to the state religion of christianity, so of course they were christian at very least in upbringing, some of them becoming deists.

The religion of the founding fathers is irrelevant. They set up a nation built on secular principles, not religious ones. This is all that matters. No matter how hard the modern christian fanatic tries to make America seem as if it is and always was a christian nation, any casual reading of the Constitution makes it plainly evident that it most certainly is not. If that can't convince you I can always point out the Treaty Of Tripoli, Article 11.

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
....The United States has never been a christian country and hopefully never will.

Relevance to the OP?

OT

The OP includes a quote claiming that it is fact that America is a christian country. Professor Hodge could not be more incorrect.

...and again, I reiterate the question - it's starting to seem like you're hiding something OP.

Originally posted by jokei
Just in case you missed it and in the sense of fairness and transparency:

Originally posted by jokei
I'd hate to think you're deliberately obfuscating your stance on "religion" god whatever, so I think for the sake of the argument you should clearly state what your viewpoint on Christ, Jehovah, Satan or whatever you consider to be the prime-mover in creation is...

I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm getting at and I didn't want to try to list all the religious/deities/etc/etc, so please just be honest and forthright.

[edit on 6/8/1010 by jokei]

Originally posted by WolfofWar
I thank the founding fathers, who were mostly deist or agnostic, for the freedoms to not believe in religion.

Sorry not true…

Religious Affiliation of U.S. Founding Fathers

Number….percentage of total

Episcopalian/Anglican 88…54.7%
Presbyterian 30…18.6%
Congregationalist 27…16.8%
Quaker 7…4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6…3.7%
Lutheran 5…3.1%
Catholic 3…1.9%
Huguenot 3…1.9%
Unitarian 3… 1.9%
Methodist 2… 1.2%
Calvinist 1… 0.6%
TOTAL 204

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
....The United States has never been a christian country and hopefully never will.

Relevance to the OP?

OT

The OP includes a quote claiming that it is fact that America is a christian country. Professor Hodge could not be more incorrect.

OK, for fun...prove it

Altho, you missing the point...

Originally posted by jokei
...and again, I reiterate the question - it's starting to seem like you're hiding something OP.

Originally posted by jokei
Just in case you missed it and in the sense of fairness and transparency:

Originally posted by jokei
I'd hate to think you're deliberately obfuscating your stance on "religion" god whatever, so I think for the sake of the argument you should clearly state what your viewpoint on Christ, Jehovah, Satan or whatever you consider to be the prime-mover in creation is...

I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm getting at and I didn't want to try to list all the religious/deities/etc/etc, so please just be honest and forthright.

[edit on 6/8/1010 by jokei]

???????

Stop speaking in parables my friend

2nd

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
.....The religion of the founding fathers is irrelevant. .....

Wow, thats a bold statement....

Your not in journalism I hope?

OT

reply to post by OldThinker


Being of the atheistic persuasion it's hardly likely I'm speaking in parables...

I'd just like you to state your personal faith (if any) for the sake of a clear and transparent discussion.

I don't mean to be rude, but you're starting to appear somewhat troll-like, as others have suggested. I think you'd be up for a reasonable debate, even if we disagree.

Why do you ignore history my friends?

The Constitution of the State of Delaware 1776 stated: “Article XXII Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust…shall…make and subscribe to the following declaration, to wit: ‘I , do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore, I do acknowledge the holy scripture of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration.’”

Ulysses S. Grant, 18th President of the U.S. stated: “I believe the Holy Scriptures, and whoso lives by them will be benefited thereby. Men may differ as to the interpretation, which is human, but the Scriptures are man’s best guide…”

Warren Gamaliel Harding, 29th President of the U.S., said, “I have always believed in the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, whereby they have become the expression to man of the Word and Will of God.”

Rutherford Birchard Hayes, the 19th President of the U.S., declared, “I am a firm believer in the Divine teachings, perfect example, and atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I believe also in the Holy Scriptures as the revealed Word of God to the world for its enlightenment and salvation.”

June 8, 1845, the 7th President of the U.S., Andrew Jackson said, “The book, Sir, is the Rock upon which our republic rests.” A few days before his death, Andrew Jackson, said, “Sir, I am in the hands of a merciful God. I have full confidence in His goodness and mercy…The Bible is true. I have tried to conform to its spirit as near as possible. Upon that sacred volume I rest my hope for eternal salvation, through the merits and blood of our blessed Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.”

John Jay was the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and was concurrently president of the American Bible Society.

Numerous quotations from Scripture can be found on the walls of the Library of Congress, including: Micah 6:8; Psalm 19:1; and John 1:5.

Daniel Webster, a U.S. Congressman, a US Senator, and Secretary of State stated, “If there is anything in my thoughts or style commend, the credit is due to my parents for instilling in me an early love of the Scriptures. If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instructions and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity.”

Three quotes from Noah Webster, the author of the first edition of his American Dictionary of the English Language in November, 1828: “Education is useless without the Bible.” “The Bible was America’s basic text book in all fields.” “God’s word, contained in the bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct.”

Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the U.S., said, “There are a good many problems before the American people today, and before me as a President, but I expect to find the solution to those problems just in the proportion that I am faithful in the study of the Word of God.”

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
....The United States has never been a christian country and hopefully never will.

Relevance to the OP?

OT

The OP includes a quote claiming that it is fact that America is a christian country. Professor Hodge could not be more incorrect.

OK, for fun...prove it

Altho, you missing the point...

Maybe I am "missing the point" but I answered the question you had asked.

For proof (even though it's actually on Hodge to provide) I have already provided Article 11, Treaty Of Tripoli as well as referencing the Constitution which contains no principles of christianity.

Originally posted by jokei
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Being of the atheistic persuasion it's hardly likely I'm speaking in parables...

I'd just like you to state your personal faith (if any) for the sake of a clear and transparent discussion.

I don't mean to be rude, but you're starting to appear somewhat troll-like, as others have suggested. I think you'd be up for a reasonable debate, even if we disagree.

He's obviously trolling, look at the last line in the title of the thread, it's obvious flame baiting and pathetic.

Christians persecute atheists for thousands of years, then get told off by the constitution and freedom of religion and now we should thank them.

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
.....The religion of the founding fathers is irrelevant. .....

Wow, thats a bold statement....

Your not in journalism I hope?

OT

It is not relevant since the documents forming this nation are astonishingly secular. If there is any relevance to their religion it's that a body of presumably religious people set up a system absolutely devoid of their religious beliefs.

Originally posted by jokei
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Being of the atheistic persuasion it's hardly likely I'm speaking in parables...

I'd just like you to state your personal faith (if any) for the sake of a clear and transparent discussion.

I don't mean to be rude, but you're starting to appear somewhat troll-like, as others have suggested. I think you'd be up for a reasonable debate, even if we disagree.

You are not being rude...

relevance to the OP?

What does troll-like mean? hidden?

Have you seen?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What am I hiding friend?