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Atheists should thank Christians for the freedom to NOT believe, wonder if they do?

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posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
All are allowed to worship as they please, or not to worship at all, if they see fit. No man is molested for his religion or for his want of religion. No man is required to profess any form of faith, or to join any religious association.


You (or should I say the quotes original author) summed it up perfectly with the above statement, so why the inflammatory thread?

Pathetic.




posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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from my research i have come to the conclusion that the majority of the founding fathers were deists, not christians.

continuing with quotes from john adams.




. "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816 . "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" -letter to Thomas Jefferson . "The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." - letter to John Taylor . "The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." . "The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?" . "Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?" -letter to Thomas Jefferson . "God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world." . "Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?" ". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind." . "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr


The only thing I thank Christians for is Christmas, and even that loses it's significance after finding out Santa Clause doesn't exist.




WHAT???? He doesn't??

Oh man.....


Thanks a lot :shk:












posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Ok, I'm not militant towards people of faith, but I will take a crack at this.

One can not dictate nor legislate belief onto a free-willed individual. So, no Christians are not responsible for Atheists ability to not believe.


Thanks for your thoughts, but your "IF/THEN" statement is quite incongruent...


I have to agree with Aggie Man here, can you please expand on why his IF/THEN statement is incongruent. It seems to be precisely what has happened in this thread and many others.

Don't get me wrong, Atheist’s are far from always right and I don't think we are "better" than anyone else.

However Christianity never influenced my Atheism, it was being raised with no religious view what-so-ever. I have to thank Christian's for my freedom of religion as much as I have to thank Muslim's for the sun.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


My post was a lazy what post? Wrong! How about it was the TRUTH!!

Stop with the comedy bits and silliness, this is starting to make my sides hurt from laughter.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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In fact all Christian holidays are just pagan holidays anyway.... they just incorporated/stole them to blag all the Pagans to join Christianity.

I don't honestly think there is one Christian Holiday or Tradition that's actually their own.


Oh well.... Who cares anyway.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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I love Christianity I love Jesus and his teachings, but to say that athiest must thank us is upsured. I am sorry to say that for centuries christianity has persecuted anyone with other ways of thought. That is not the way of Christ. Jesus says choose this day who you will serve. Jesus never demanded. You must come to Christ of your own free will, or not.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
I'm honestly getting sick of the attacks on atheism.

MOST atheists are passive, friendly and not militant and being honest most atheists couldn't give a damn if you worshipped a three headed sheep called Barry or a piece of magic moon rock, as long as nobody gets hurt and nothing gets broken. But considering religion is one of the biggest causes for pain and misery on the planet, i think YOU should be thanking us atheists for not ridiculing your violent beliefs.





I am not attacking atheism...I am informing, folks can decide, thats all. being "passive" is a good trait, btw



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I am not attacking atheism...I am informing, folks can decide, thats all.

So your converting?



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by GummB

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Ok, I'm not militant towards people of faith, but I will take a crack at this.

One can not dictate nor legislate belief onto a free-willed individual. So, no Christians are not responsible for Atheists ability to not believe.


Thanks for your thoughts, but your "IF/THEN" statement is quite incongruent...


I have to agree with Aggie Man here, can you please expand on why his IF/THEN statement is incongruent. It seems to be precisely what has happened in this thread and many others.

Don't get me wrong, Atheist’s are far from always right and I don't think we are "better" than anyone else.

However Christianity never influenced my Atheism, it was being raised with no religious view what-so-ever. I have to thank Christian's for my freedom of religion as much as I have to thank Muslim's for the sun.




IF-since one can't legislate belief....

Then-so the political structure the 50 out of the 52 signers of the declaration Christians put into place that allows freedom to NOT believe...


is an INCONGRUENT argument....



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by GummB
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I am not attacking atheism...I am informing, folks can decide, thats all.

So your converting?


converting? please, thats ACTIVE...

The op is like Fox News, OT prints, you decide

I'll debate if you like



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:38 AM
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I checked your profile. You have several threads like this: Christian vs Atheist.

Only you attempt to structure them in a way - - - of playing both sides of the fence.

Not buying it.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
btw, OT's not religious


Aww man, it's turning into one of those threads again


Oh well...

I'd hate to think you're deliberately obfuscating your stance on "religion" god whatever, so I think for the sake of the argument you should clearly state what your viewpoint on Christ, Jehovah, Satan or whatever you consider to be the prime-mover in creation is...

I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm getting at and I didn't want to try to list all the religious/deities/etc/etc, so please just be honest and forthright.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Sorry, I understand where you are coming from one his argument not being congruent. You have to admit it seems to follow the theme of this thread so far quite well. And that’s just my opinion from looking through your angry responses.

And no sorry like another user said most of us ( me included ) could care less if you worshiped a three headed goat. My freedom is not up for debate, I like my mind the way it is.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by humbleseeker
I love Christianity I love Jesus and his teachings, but to say that athiest must thank us is upsured. I am sorry to say that for centuries christianity has persecuted anyone with other ways of thought. That is not the way of Christ. Jesus says choose this day who you will serve. Jesus never demanded. You must come to Christ of your own free will, or not.


Thanks for joining, gave you a star...

I think you are helping ther OP, you might not see it yet...

The wisdom of the Christian founding fathers put a 3-level check and balance structure to prevent the types of abuse mentioned in your post...exec, jud. and legis....



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker


The op is like Fox News,




What.... Right-wing, Fundamentalist propaganda...


At least you're honest



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
so the political structure the 50 out of the 52 signers of the declaration Christians put into place that allows freedom to NOT believe...


Freedom to practice is what they gave us....

No man gives another the freedom to believe.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Annee
I checked your profile. You have several threads like this: Christian vs Atheist.

Only you attempt to structure them in a way - - - of playing both sides of the fence.

Not buying it.




Yeah the OP has a record for sure.

Perhaps the biggest religious stirrer/troll on ATS?

Hmmmm....



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by OldThinker


The op is like Fox News,




What.... Right-wing, Fundamentalist propaganda...


At least you're honest


Hi again bb


I'm really not fundamentalist...

I better be honest, I'm going be held accountable bro



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Annee
I checked your profile. You have several threads like this: Christian vs Atheist.

Only you attempt to structure them in a way - - - of playing both sides of the fence.

Not buying it.




Yeah the OP has a record for sure.

Perhaps the biggest religious stirrer/troll on ATS?

Hmmmm....



Don't get nasty now...

Don't waste a post on the obvious...

Of course the record is there....OT's very proud of it...

Can we get back on the subject at hand...are you atheists so afraid to acknowledge that some Christians might have done something WISE back in the day, that has benefitted many of like people over the centuries here in America?

Or will the thread go ugly, becuase you ignore tha facts presented?
Come on now




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