Russian wildfires and another Chernobyl event

Originally posted by sodakota
Chernobyl may not be as contaminated as you think.

Here's my favorite website on Chernobyl.

Kiddofspeed - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures -
Elena's Motorcyle Ride through Chernobyl

She rode her motorcycle into Chernobyl and took pictures. It is really amazing, and reading her story as she narrates the pictures is fascinating.

I tend to agree with you about the Chernobyl area. As I said in my OP:

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
After watching the video about how the Russian wildfires could reach the Chernobyl area, please read what I have written below it. There is much more to this that what the video describes. It is my belief that ground contamination is the least of our worries. The metal sarcophagus is the real danger and it's in terrible shape already.

However, lol, from your bike lady's website, I don't think that this sounds very much like the kind of tranquil ride I would prefer, but that's just me.

I have never had problems with the dosimeter guys, who man the checkpoints. They are experts, and if they find radiation on you vehicle, they give it a chemical shower. I don't count those couple of times when "experts" tried to invent an excuse to give me a shower, because those had a lot more to do with physical biology than biological physics.

From your comment, I believe that you are not aware of the part of Chernobyl that many are not aware of, that IS very, very contaminated. AND, I guarantee you, she's not riding around the reactor building. If she is, then I'm really not liking her definition of tranquil.

Did you read what I wrote in the OP?

Originally posted by Doubleagent
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

Like, as in, very close proximity. The only bad thing that happens if most of the city burns is I just get really pissed, because you can do tours, and I really want to do a tour. (I'm only 16, and most places require you to be 18 to do a tour)

[edit on 6-8-2010 by Doubleagent]

Yeah... like in the actual reactor sarcophagus which is what this thread is about.

Edit to add: I'm sorry for being so abrupt. I'm just getting a little frustrated with people not reading and commenting. Please forgive me.

[edit on 6/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

Originally posted by createnice


I haven't seen the area around the sarcophagus, but hopefully there isn't any growth around there to fuel the fire. Let's hope not. Does anyone has photos showing the surrounding area?

Google Earth is full of them. Here's a link to one. The sky is beautiful in this one... www.panoramio.com...

After reading this post decided to have a look for myself to see how close the fires actually were, this lead me to google earth(GE) just to see if anything. Anyway found a GE download which shows the Reactor and the fires, problem is I cant find the download again, and have no idea how to link a picture from GE if that is at all possible

that hasn't relation with OP but i cannot pass it by

It is what they did to democratic candidate, poisoned him with dioxin. This is face of democracy in Ukraine.

that f@cked clown had wanted to renew himself with stem cells but operation did get troubles.

just a remark: Chernobyl is joining of two russian words, means "black story".

Radioactive bears ?Go to event details
hisz.rsoe.hu...

[edit on 6-8-2010 by 12voltz]

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
After watching the video about how the Russian wildfires could reach the Chernobyl area, please read what I have written below it. There is much more to this that what the video describes. It is my belief that ground contamination is the least of our worries. The metal sarcophagus is the real danger and it's in terrible shape already.

Contrary to what most believe, Chernobyl and the area around it remains radioactively contaminated. The reactor that exploded is as contaminated as it was at the time and only the metal sarcophagus around the destroyed reactor, built on the backs of thousands of people who died to build it, insulates the world from the massive contamination still there. To put this contamination in perspective, they had to clean the roof of the exploded reactor because it was so hot (radioactively) that the clean up to the surrounding area could not be done without cleaning up the graphite on the roof top (blown out from the reactor) because machinery needed to build the containment vessel (the sarcophagus) would not work under those radioactive conditions – robots refused the assignment, either by literally dying or malfunctioning and throwing themselves into the pit. So, they sent in men to do the work that the machines, even, refused to do. Those men, donning lead suits, could not work longer than 45 seconds (1 shovel full of debris) without succumbing to the radioactivity (the very longest they were allowed to work was 1 minute) – but because of the numbers of men and the around the clock work, they got it done - eventually. Most of those men are dead now, the survivors are very sick. The plume of contamination went as far as the UK.

25 years later, the sarcophagus is in a bad state of repair – there are many concerns, due to the rust stains on the sarcophagus that it will begin to leak if it hasn’t already. The Ukraine and the Russian governments have known for some time that the containment is worsening but have either not had the 1 Billion dollars needed to build the new one or have not been willing to do it (I think the later). The containment sarcophagus was never meant to last longer than 30 years - and remember, it's made out of metal and metal erodes even in far better conditions. If these massive fires reach this sarcophagus and heat it sufficiently, this could be disastrous.

If you want to know more about the Chernobyl emergency and literally how dire it was, watch this series of videos. Part 8 of the series documents the shape of the sarcophagus today and for that reason is the only one I’ll put in this thread (damage to the sarcophagus begins at 6:00). There are 10 parts in the whole series. The whole series is a good depiction of how close the world actually came to destruction according to a couple of friends of mine that were part of the IAEA investigation of the event at the time.

[edit on 6/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

During the cleaning of the stuff of the roof and other places, the robotic (believe it or not at this time it was never though of of having robotic earth movers, it was designed and technology applied in a hurry) earth movers where placed on the roof, but was having trouble because the radiation was damaging the circuitry and the chip sets for operating the machines. Thats why they would either not respond after awhile and/or be locked in the last command given because it wouldn't respond to the new command. Also they really don't want to go back and work on that thing, because people aren't dumb anymore and their isn't a USSR to force or conscript people to work in that danger. There was a documentary shot back in 2003 called Chernobyl Heart (I will post a wiki link to it). Anyway it had this Irish woman going to the Ukraine and other places surrounding Chernobyl and seeing the effects of the radiation on children. Everything from radiation posioning to mutations. The mutations was the worse, many of the children where abandoned and orphanages. One example had a girl that had her brain formed on the outside of her skull under her skin and there was alot worse. Many of these kids where children of parents that where poisoned from the radiation and it destroyed their ability to have healthy offspring.

This is why no information about Depleted Uranium is ever in the MSM news in America and the only place you can find it is online our overseas. They don't want people to truly know the price of radiation, people are still thinking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (which was bad don't get me wrong), but they don't think of the killer as a gift that keeps on giving even when there is a beautiful day and the birds are chirping etc. etc.. Imagine telling a 17 year old boy or girl or even a young person in their 20's in the US or even Russia now, that by being around radiation and or using irradiated rounds in battle. You have the potential of being a person that can never have children or even contaminate your love one from having sex with them, forever. And then show them the pictures of children from radiation poisoning, they would run instead of walk from their duty. In our society in the US, where it's every person for themselves do you actually believe that they would think it was a good trade off to be essentially a poisoned person till they die.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by sodakota


the " bike ride " was a hoax - look at the pictures carefully - the only time you actually see the motorcycle is OUTSIDE the exclusion zone

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
AND, I guarantee you, she's not riding around the reactor building.

There are tours that take you inside of the power plant. You can only spend 2-3 mnutes there though.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


just my opinion , but i have visited chenobyl and Prypiat so i consider myself to have a good idea of whats there

and the only credible disaster senarios are :

a forest fire in the so called ` magic wood ` one of the most heavily contaminated areas

a fire engulfing Prypiat

both would create another hazardus plume of smoke and dust contaminated with radioactive particles

the danger [ from fire ] to the sarcohpagus is IMHO , negligable

the reactor structure / sarcophagus is highly fire resistant anyway - and the area around it is devoid of any significant combusibles

lastly - withing the exclusion zone - there are already extensive fire breaks of ploughed ground over 100m wide

Just my 2 cents, albeit I'm not educated at all in any relevant field.

To the OP's post, the documentary is a little off. He mentioned something about fusion in the first part, which makes no sense with a nuclear fission reactor in 1986, and in the third or fourth part mentions the possibility of a second explosion which it said to have leveled Europe etc, which would have never happened regardless.

This link describes the effects of plutonium which would raise questions about the random quote that "1 microgram is a lethal dose". Aside from that, I would think the other elements obviously pose a risk if the fire reached the forests / highly radioactive areas, but I don't think fire is going to have any effect on the sarcophagus. Interesting story

Informative link for Chernobyl

While the continuing erosion of the protective structure is a worry (and has been for years), as are the fires currently encroaching on the area, what about suicidal Islamic radicals searching out this plutonium for use in dirty bombs or worse? Hit up the new Russian millionaires and billionaires for some cash for repairs and security. Putin's old cronies in the former KGB that basically stole much of the new industries and capitalist companies by force can afford some cash to save the Motherland. They certainly don't want Chechens and other Islamic radicals getting their hands on the plutonium and hurting their business interests.

ADD IT TO THE LIST !! Can anything else possibly happen on the poor old worn out planet... We are all jus a virus eating away at the very existance. Its so so sad how humans in reality.

Great thread OP! Very important thread! I did not know these fire were that close to the Chernobyl Containment Zone? That could be bad all around. If the brush is consumed by the fire all that radioactive ash will be thrown into air and headed where ever the wind takes it. This is definitely something to take serious, and I am sure the leaders of Russia and the Ukraine are? They would not even mention anything about it if was of little concern.

Any breach to that area would be like opening up a festering wound. The problem is as open-ended as it was in 1986 during the crisis and containment stages. That sarcophagus has got to be repaired. We got money to spend on garbage, but a paltry billion dollars seems like a lot of money? There are governments spending trillions of dollars like sailors at the brothel. Then we have one of the most serious risks to public health awaiting to become a menace as it was years ago and the politicians are sitting on their hands?

The structure was put to together in haste and has been slowly deteriorating from the elements since 1986. Some engineers have stated that it would not take much for the structure to be breached in its entirety.

Officials were worried that a tornado or an earthquake could bring down the old shelter easily and release clouds of poisonous dusts from inside.

www.digitaljournal.com...

So, all it would take is a slight shake of the ground or a swift wind and that structure could collapse on itself. The incident happened in 1986 and people are still bickering about what to do with it. Now, a wild fire of epic proportions is threatening the containment zone and potentially the containment structure? All this time and nothing? That thing should have been fixed years ago! Now, we have another potential disaster to steer down. On a side note, these fires are also a severe risk to the food supply as well.

The Prime Minister, Vladimir Putin, ordered a halt to all exports of wheat and other grains from August 15 after drought and fires destroyed one-fifth of Russia's crop and forced the country to draw from emergency reserves.

High temperatures, lack of rain and wildfires have devastated more than a third of cultivable land in Russia, the world's fourth-largest grain exporter. ''This is very serious,'' Abdolreza Abbassian, the chief grain economist at the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation, said. ''It's a desperate situation because it has caught everybody offguard … there is a risk of destabilising panic.''

www.smh.com.au...

What a mess! Hopefully, the people of Russia and the Ukraine can get this thing under control. It seems out of control and the weather conditions remain perfect to keep these fires going for the foreseeable future. Lets hope all our concerns are just more fear mongering. If we are right about the Chernobyl, it will be one hell of a disaster!

[edit on 7-8-2010 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by Jedite
From what I've seen and read it seem they are more worried about the fires buring the radioactive trees grass buildings then the barrier failing. Not really to worried about this, nature still seems to bounce back even after we've gone in and made a mess of things. The forest is taking back the towns, animals are seen roaming the place (they are all radioactive, and possibly mutating/ed but life still finds away.

This.

The same with global warming, ww3, whatever you throw out there.

Yes, the Human race could potentially become extinct due to our insanity, and we'd probably take a lot of other species with us. But life will continue, it'll just be adapted to suit the new environment.

Personally, I don't care when the Human race dies. We're a pretty disgusting species.
We ravage the Earth and take whatever we can get to satisfy our own greed. We have no regard for other species. We're the most arrogant species ever to have existed on this planet (that we know of).
The Earth won't miss us when we're gone. It'll continue, and hopefully it'll do so without allowing another species to evolve into anything like what we have become.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Agreed on your analysis. The field of contaminated cedar trees outside of the powerplant would be quick to burn up and releasing all of that radiation they've accumulated over the years.
Also, no mention I've seen as far as southern Belarus and fires are concerned.

to clarify a few misconceptions.

firstly

Chernobyl is in Ukraine, NOT Russia. Ukraine is a completely different country with their own language, government, and history. For people to think Chernobyl is in Russia is the equivalent of someone saying Dallas is in Mexico.

Secondly, contrary to popular belief and myth, Chernobyl never actually "blew up" in the nuclear sense. There was never a nuclear reaction, i.e. it didn't act like an atom bomb and "explode". If it exploded in that way, the Chernobyl factory and the city near which it was based would not exist to this day.

The only thing that happened is huge amounts of steam/pressure blew the lid off of the reactor and thus made all the controlled radioactive fuel go all over the place and contaminate the crap out of everything. Yes the steam explosion itself was violent enough to blow off the lid and kill a bunch of people. But Chernobyl in no way shape or form suffered a nuclear explosion otherwise there would be no talk of a "sarcophagus" to cover the building because no building nor no town of Pripyat would exist, and many many more people would have lost their lives from it.

Lastly, I have read numerous reports that animals are not only spotted all over Chernobyl but are thriving there. Don't know if that means that reports of the deadliness of the area are exaggerated, or just proof of the resilience of nature and animals. But to my knowledge all sorts of forest creatures live there and are doing fine.

reply to post by rufusdrak


Yeah, I should have been a bit more specific in my post about the actual "explosion" as you have, but it's funny as the documentary linked was aired on the discovery channel with errors like that which are easily identifiable.

As for the wildlife, I'm pretty sure most do suffer a multitude of effects from the radiation / bioaccumulation such as the damaging of genes , but apparently very little / no defects or mutations. Also the varying effects of different plants and animals depend on the areas there are in, what they're eating, the wind patterns etc. I'm sure most of them suffer from decreased life spans and overall health but aside from that, yeah, they do seem to be having an easier time living there without a human presence.

Originally posted by SarK0Y
just a remark: Chernobyl is joining of two russian words, means "black story".

Actually it means "wormwood" (Чернобыльник). However you are right about etymology.