Hey PGS8113 I'm right along side you that woman yelling in the streets was burned into my memory on that day.

Originally posted by spacedoubt

In some ways, we need to prove, especially to the younger generation there,
that the West is not as "evil" as gets pounded into their heads every day.
How far could we go with this? How could we "unpollute" those young minds?

Just as an example, look at Gitmo. Saddam Hussain locks up people without being charged or tried and without acccess to the Red Cross. Not the US. If you were the average Joe in a Middle Eastern country, could you see the difference? Hussain shuts down newspapers in Iraq because he doesn't like what they print, not the US. We need to start practicing what we preach, start respecting people and not worshiping the dollar, so the lesser of two evils is not Al Queda in the eyes of some Muslims.

Extremists kidnapped and killed an american to blackmail in their own words " TYRANICAL saudi goverment"... how ecactly are they blackmailing one of the most tyranical goverments on this planet ( saudi gov are the ones who stone women, etc, etc ) by kidnapping an american??? unless there is a connection, a big one, between tyrans and "freedom lovers"... you do the math... innocent are dying because the powerfull ones are playing their little games. Is Saudi Arabia so deep in Uncle Sam's ass or is it the other way around??
I am so sick and tired of these assholes playing with human lives like this!

How to respond? Select A or B.

A) Take the message -- maybe this isn't worth it. There's standing up for your beliefs, and then there's crusading off a cliff. These people don't want us there and to believe that we can go wherever and do whatever we want is going to be met with harsh consequences.

We should abandon this selfish arrogant attitude that our way is the only way and that anyone who dare oppose us is wrong. Might does not always make right. Just as fire cannot be quenched with gasoline, terrorism is not ended by war. The way to win is with peace, diplomacy, and by working to increase the quality of life for all.

Alternatively, we can just leave and let the sickos all kill each other and continue our democracy/capitalist orgy undisturbed.


B) Respond with disproportionate force -- make the bastards pay, show them that this little act of defiance will be met with the deaths of tens of thousands. A better world requires overwhelming military force to destroy the enemies of peace and justice.

What you just don't understand is that some people are naturally evil and to let them continue unchecked can result in the end of the civilized world. We must fight this evil ad and bring our way of life, for every righteous and good person desires our way of life and if they don't, then they're clearly not fit to live.


Do you believe in gray areas? Do you believe that the monsters of today are most likely the forgotten victims of yesterday? That there's no such thing as a universal good or evil, just perception?

Or do you believe in objective right and wrong? That some people are just born evil, and that these people have no excuse? Every injury sustained means a perpetrator is blamed?

Originally posted by mrdependable
Hey Boogie that's why I said good thing I am not in charge of the button....im not going to pretend to be something I am not. If that was my son I'd be on the first plane to Saudi Arabia taking as many scalps as I could before being taken down. Sorry I stand for what is right not what is politically correct.....an eye for an eye......best these extremists don't come around my neck of the woods.

Yeah I know brotha...I have the same dark thoughts at times. I'd make a terrible angry god in that I would probably eliminate 90% of the human population. I think all of us would love to beat the Sh!t out those guys for what they have done. But you have to pretend to walk in the shoes of the common Arab and educate yourself on how you as an Arab might see the US based on your current standard of living. I don't accept how they act, but the arab world really needs to be educated on how we in the West think. There are a lot of foreigners at my work and I can tell ya after talking to them day after day, you realize that we all love our families and all of us hate jerks and evil like what these guys did. The arab world is full of poorly educated and just dirt poor people who see fighting the "king of the hill" as being a worthy cause vs. surviving on dusty streets selling fruit while the coporate West drives around in new cars and clothes and dictates through the UN how the world is going to be shaped.

It may someday come to those nukes...but right now we need to convince the Arabs that we are human too and that we don't see them as lesser people....just different people that may be misguided in some of their thinking. Hell, I think the West is misguided in not learning from the muslim world's higher devotion to a more spiritual life. I would love to see a kinder America that didn't find reality shows, the latest movie, and purchasing a big new house as being "important" things in life.

Originally posted by namehere
hes dead, simple, so is nick berg, end of story, dont be naive.

So are alot of people. Nothing's really ever SIMPLE. At least it's not for someone who thinks...

Originally posted by michaelb
That some people are just born evil, and that these people have no excuse? Every injury sustained means a perpetrator is blamed?

no but its beside the point, theres no excuse and their punishment is their fault.

Originally posted by Flinx
So are alot of people. Nothing's really ever SIMPLE. At least it's not for someone who thinks...

whatever, tell that to the families who have to bury these guys, it is simple.

stop over thinking.

[edit on 18-6-2004 by namehere]

[edit on 18-6-2004 by namehere]

News agencies now reporting that three al Qaeda have been killed WHILE DISPOSING OF JOHNSON'S BODY (MSNBC).

One killed was the guy in the video with Johson, the guy with the black hood and jump suit. al Mughrin? The 30 yr old leader of alQaeda in that part of the mideast.

[edit on 18-6-2004 by jsobecky]

the leader is dead!!

does anyone know the original site where the video is located?

Why is it that he was killed before any intelligence be gathered from him?

I'll tell you exactly how we beat them. We take a lesson from our good old friend Elijah.

I'll paraphrase the story for those who are unfamiliar with it. Elijah and Ahab were bitter enemies, both of them terrorists in every respect of the word. Ahab and his people served a god named Bael, Elijah, of course, worshipped Yaweh (that's the spelling most people are familiar with, so it's the one I will use in this story). Ahab and Elijah decided to meet on top of Mount Caramel for a debate of sorts. Elijah said, "I have an idea. Kill a bunch of goats and cattle, and scatter them around on the ground, and then pray. If Bael comes and takes the sacrifice, you know that he is the one true god."

So, Ahab and his followers slaughter the animals, ple them up, and start praying and crying out to Bael. At one point, Elijah says (in the actual Hebrew text) "Cry out louder, maybe Bael is taking a s**t." It's a very funny story.

After about a day of this, Elijah says, "Ok, you've had your turn, now it's our turn." He gets his followers to pour buckets and buckets of water on the dead animals, soaking them thuroughly. Then he cries out to the Heavens, "Yaweh, take the sacrifice that is given to you."

A lightning bolt comes down from the sky, and ignites the animals, burning them up instantly.

Now, whether you take this story as a factual recounting of details, or simply a parable, it still has validity in this day and age. Here is what we do.

The President gets on TV and says, "we are going to blow up this certain mosque at this certain time, and if Allah truly exists, he will stop us." Then we launch a Tomahawk. Rinse, recycle and repeat. In 6 weeks, the entire Islamic fundamentalist base would fall apart. If Allah truly wants to destroy the Great American Demon, then he will save his people and his mosques. However, if this Jihad is a bunch of rotten horses**t, then the mosques will be destroyed, along with all the fundamentalists who will be in them, praying.

Will innocent people die? Yes. That is the unfortunate truth of war. But will America truly be safer? Yes, we will. In teh end, that's all that matters.

Originally posted by namehere
heres a simple idea, take about 10 al queda prisoners, film them naked or any way to shame them and demand al queda or whoever to stop attacking americans

We already tried that.
Let us not forget that Abu Grhaib was the cause of some of these executions. Deny ignorance.
It is for the simple reason that we have in the past (as confirmed by the government) executed Iraqi PoWs that they do this. We escalated it to a new level.

Do not hate Islam. Do not hate Muslims. This is a very few doing what a very large condemn. They probably see our military men as Christians on a crusade. Do not forget that.

Originally posted by pgs8113
I remember a couple of years ago. When the palestinians got news of 9/11, there was this women on the tv dancing in the street going Lalalalalalalal with her tongue. Thats when I realized the type of 'people' the united states would have to deal with.

They aren't human in my mind. It's really sickening.

Sure, they are inhumane, right?
What did we do when Baghdad fell at the loss of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives? We celebrated. Newspapers talked about the great victory, soldiers were praised for their bravery. They have suffered losses far in excess of 9/11, and we arent just talking about their soldiers. Their innocents have been involved more than ours. Your mind has been corrupted by the media. We are as guilty, if not more, as they are.

Posted by: SE7EN
On: Fri June, 18 2004 @ 07:45 GMT
what wouldnt surrprise me if the troops over there start beheading captured Iraqi prisoners after all they did beat and tourture them in prison so whose to say there not going to do this in revenge for whats happend to do. i know its bad to say this but i thought I had to

In response to the above:

First: Our troops are not cold-blooded killers like these lunatics. I know as I am retired US Navy

Second: Al Quaida wouldn't care, and in fact, would celebrate a martyr's death and praise Allah...................I wonder if they know that their version of Allah comes equipped with horns and a pitchfork?

Third: My heart goes out to Mr. Johnson's family

they arent helping themselves at all by doing things like this, they are just digging a deeper hole. history has proven over and over that if you piss off america you are going down because that is when we all pull together and kick someone's a$$. and it doesnt matter if its the right a$$, someone's a$$ gets kicked.

[edit on 18-6-2004 by spangbr]

I first wanna say this is truly a sad event as well as a sad time in human history. I can't help but hope that one day we get passed violence as a viable means of dealing with each other. In our day to day lives here in America we understand that violence is wrong and we treat it as a crime and its actors as criminals and outcast. I don't understand that thing that is in the heart of people that allows them to believe killing another person is right so just like this murder sickens me... i will never understand war or the "nuke 'em all" mentality. The thought of each makes me ill.

The bin ladenes and the bushes are all the same. the "soliders" and the "terrorist" are all murderers. When Bush says there is no justification I completely agree, but I wish he understood that there is no justification for any act of violence. Violence is not the answer---ever---not for the arabs and not for us.

Originally posted by Boogie
I don't accept how they act, but the arab world really needs to be educated on how we in the West think. T

Sure, and it's fine for us not to be educated as to how they think? They do know how we think, look, they hit America who had thought it was invulnerable. They live off our thoughts to earn their livings. People like you are under the distinct impression that all muslims are terrorists and that they spend their entire lives preparing to kill Americans. Nothing could be further from the truth, the media chooses to amplify the actions of a handful of men to represent a nation. They want as much as we want, to get married, to enjoy our life, and to watch their children grow. These people have just as much pride as us, they just want to be left undisturbed to allow continuation of their way of life... American ideals only work in America.