take a look at prophet of www.prophetofdoom.net for a bit of insight into the islamic extremist views on life.

May the family have some strength and peace with all of the prayers that go out to them.

I am tired of hearing how peaceful Islam is and not hearing these atrocities denounced by their religious leaders. Beheadings, Stoning to Death, Cutting off limbs, and more as proscribed by this peaceful religion. There is no separation of Church and State, the goal is for Islam to be the State, to be governed by Sharia.

It does not matter now how we got to this point, we cannot back down, we cannot negotiate. This is a life and death struggle, our lives and our deaths if we do not confront these terrorists with more strength and determination then they have. This is WAR, and must be fought as such.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
A 91 year old man was beheaded in Los Angeles on Sunday.
Should we nuke that place too?
There are evil people in every country, you can't kill everyone in the country because of the actions of a few.

Sick people are every where, not evil. Maybe you should go over there and tell them about the poor guy in L.A.

This whole situation makes me mad. What really piss me off is the people who think we should withdraw. Don't know about any one else but my blood is RED,WHITE, and BLUE.

How many more people have to die until people open thier eyes and see what has to be done. I see only one solution for this. DEATH to all the little sand suckin ppl in the world that do these things.

Just a couple of questions for some posters. What country should we bomb? Saudi Arabia? Iraq? Eygpt? Qutar? Turkey? Exactly what countries should we bombed? All of them? A dozen countries? Wouldn't the nuclear fallout affect us as well? If you mean conventional bombs, well, that's a lot of bombs. It would require around-the-clock bombing over several weeks. Logistically very difficult. As for ground action, where are we going to get the troops? A draft? Would you send yourself, or your sons or daughters into these countries? How would we clothe and feed these troops? Higher taxes?

Don't we need a more intelligent way to fight terrorism? Aren't some Americans reacting exactly the way the terrorist want us to react? So, in effect, this barbaric act has accomplished it's goal. We now have a certain segment of Americans who want us to just blindly go into the abyss, instead of fighting these terrorists more intelligently. Invading Iraq in response to Bin Laden was not a very intelligent way to fight this war on terror, and it looks like we are reaping the fruits of an incompetant commander.

Unfortunately, dropping a nuke anywhere doesn't really solve anything. Al Qaeda is not a centralized organization, with Osama Bin LAden sitting somewhere in a military-style bunker giving orders to his generals. This organization is highly decentralized. Sleeper cells get their information and plans put together, then they leave, entrench themselves soemwhere, and wait until a pre-determined time to carry out their orders. Usually, if they are to be coordinated with other sleeper cells, the different cells don't know of the other's existence. This prevents someone from sleeper cell A from being captured and given information on sleeper cell B. That's why interrogation has only limited effect.

How do we fight an enemy like this? First off, when something like this horrible act happens, we do not allow it to make us sink to their level. They fight with brutality, and a lack of civility. We must remain on a higher level than they are. The abuses at Abu Grahib prison were not the actions of a civilized people. No matter what happens, we cannot see justification in such violences brought upon human beings. It is not about being a liberal or being weak, it is about being a true American. We must believe in ourselves, and know that, in time, if we remain civilized, and stay on the search for justice, we will win. As soon as we allow ourselves to take the path of "an eye for an eye", then they have already beaten us.

Stay strong, remain vigilant, and above all, do not forget that we are American. Civilized people do not use violence for revenge, but for justice. If you don't think there is a difference, then they have already beaten you.

What I want is for those idiots that run Saudi Arabia to speak out against this in both English and Arabic. This week they were all over English TV saying how bad this was, how the attacks were unacceptable. Then on Arab TV they blamed them on the Jews.

It is time we live up to the Bush Doctrine. If you harbor or support terrorist, we will come and get you. We did it to Saddam. It is time the House of Saud shapes up or falls at our feet.

You know playing nice is certainly a goal but let's face it. We have lost many Americans over the last 20 years to these radicals. Flying planes into buildings and beheadings are just the most graphic ways. If they want a war, fine, let's give them a war. Either way it is time to end this. I do not want these problems to plague my children. We owe it to them to confront these threats today and now. Oh god I sound like bush...

The difference is I want us to use the same policy for all governments. I think the world would respect us more, less picking and choosing.

Originally posted by nanna_of_6

Originally posted by mpeake

Do you really think that once we pull out of this massive litterbox of a country that "they" will just stop terrorizing us? Ignorrance!

Our troops are for protecting us in the usa, they can be scattered around out country to do what they were trained to do, keep the terrorist OUT. We need to close our borders to everyone that is not American, then work on searching for the other terrorist in our country and get rid of them. To hell with Iraq and Bush & co's war over oil !!

While it would be nice to think it would be that easy to solve the problem, the reality is if we locked down our country and tried to protect ourselves from the enemy out there, considering the fact that we have already been attacked IN this country and continue to search for elusive potential terrorists IN this country right now, what you propose could only lead to forfeiture of the very idea we are involved in the war in the first place, FREEDOM.

In order for our military along with the gov't, police etc, to provide a secure lockdown on this country we ALL would lose our freedom which we value so highly. you would have curfews dusk to dawn, you would have to have authorization to travel between cities, you would be subject to search & seizure on demand, basicly a police state.

The borders?, who is going to watch the thousands of miles of borderland 24/7?, not to mention the coastline.

What about Alaska & Hawaii?

It would be impossible to secure the US without the citizens relinquishing their freedom.

Personally I would not want our gov't to take that much control over the country, they have enough of a problem dealing with the authority they already possess.

We must continue the War on Terror on their homeland, not ours, and we also need to demand that Muslims worldwide condemn and help in the apprehension and destruction of these radicals, that is, if the radicals are truly acting outside the faith of Islam.

The coddling of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia must end as well even if it costs me $3.00 or more per gallon of gas so be it. Our WWII generation in the US is a great example of national sacrifice for the good of the country.

There was also much apprehension in their minds as to whether we should be involved in the war, but when are entry was confirmed they made a great stand and supported our efforts til the end.

I think about that alot while I'm on this site, so many views, so many opinions, but one thing is true we are free to say/write what we feel because we are Free, and I for one am grateful to those who have sacrificed, I hope you are too.


Sp edit




[edit on 18-6-2004 by JacKatMtn]

Curme,

A more intelligent way, would be a better way..
Any ideas? or thoughts in that regard?

I think this thread is cathartic for a number of the posters here.
Including myself.
A good way to vent anger and frustration. I appreciate these kinds of forums
just for that reason.



I also think Bush is fine, for the job. Right now..
So I disagree with you there.

Originally posted by nanna_of_6
I for one will be sending out e-mails to congress and other's calling for/ no, I'm going to demand that they start Impeachment proceedings.
Bush&co war against Iraq was the biggest mistake made in US history and they need to go before they destroy the whole USA as we had known it to be. ...... Bush and co can go to HELL and as far as I'm concerned.

Amen buddy.
We all have to start some where and that some where right now is starting fresh. We cannot expect their veiws of us to change if we dont change or veiws. I speak as a canadian too, we need everyone to band together to show the rest of the world that we dont agree with what has happened there. We need to show them that the USA made a mistake in their actions for war. This will not fix the problem by any means, but it will at least get the ball rolling for the next generations, cause lets face it this generation thats around now will always have hate for each other. LETS FIX THIS PROBLEM FOR THE NEXT GENERATION NOW...Before our ever-so predicted "third anti christ" emergesss from the sand dunes.

there is going to come a point when there gets to be extreme backlash for those *Islamic extremists* in the u.s now, revenge hate crimes.

i think the muslim community should be out condeming these horrible acts.
if the leaders of this religon came out and basically said the same thing Bush is saying personally I wouldnt feel so much hatred towards these people.
just my 2 cents from a newbie

**mod edit: racial epithets are not allowed on ATS.**

[edit on 18-6-2004 by Banshee]

The main point is this, yes, Christians in the past have committed some horrible deeds. But have you ever heard Jimmy Swaggart or Billy Graham encourage their followers to kill Muslims. I think not. If these so called Holy Men of the Islamic faith do not condemn these acts and ask their followers to turn in the guilty, then they are just as bad as the ones that cut the throats of the "Infidels". That also goes for their followers.

Very sad indeed. My condolences to the family. May his soul find rest with the creator. We really as a nation need to look at this because it won't stop here. Scary part is many other nations feel the same way about us. Islam is supposed to be a way of life that promotes peace. Now it is being perverted. We should have never gone to Iraq. I would like to see our soldiers come back safely. May Allah bless them all and may there finally be peace soon. What do you feel may happen as a result of this atrocity?

We invaded Afghanistan in response to Bin Laden. We liberated Iraq in response to the suspicion (which I still believe) of WMD being there. Not finding them doesn't mean they were never there, just that they're either not there anymore or we just haven't found them yet. Nobody would do anything about Saddam. We did, with the help of other countries who were able to see the big picture. Iraq is a stop on the road, not the end. The war is on terrorism and those who would threaten the security of Americans everywhere, not just on American soil. They are not in one country, but in many places all over the world. I agree we cannot just start blindly dropping bombs. However we -must- continue to fight. Strategically wiping them out one at a time if need be. These terrorists are like roaches... you see one, there are hundreds more around. They must be exterminated. They cannot be reasoned with. They don't want a place at the table, they want to blow the table up, preferrably with as many Americans seated around it as possible. They must be killed. And since they've directly issued a threat against Americans, then we are the ones who must do it. Not bloodlust, just business.

I hope this man's family isn't looking at the pictures. Though I guess some of the news orgs will be lighting up the t.v. with them.

My mom asked me "What if it was your son or husband?" and I said they are ALL mine. They are all Americans. One dies or is injured and it affects hundreds of people with their family and friends. They are all mine and I don't look at "3 Americans killed in car bomb". I think of 3 lives that were taken and hundreds that are altered irrevocably and I'm grateful to them for going over there and doing this awful but necessary job. Whether a car bomb or decapitation, we all need to pull together as Americans and Allies and WIN this thing.

heres a simple idea, take about 10 al queda prisoners, film them naked or any way to shame them and demand al queda or whoever to stop attacking americans or the prisoners be killed and film one having every nail pulled out and being forced to drink pigs blood then threaten to also go after anyone caught attacking americans and do the same to them and if it dont work after going through with it then threaten to bomb a random country that supports terrorists, i dont mean clinton style bombing with a few cruise missles, i mean dresden fire bombing obliteration style where nothing is left and the air burns for days, brutal? illegal? so what, they are asking for it, arab terrorists should fear americans and think twice before hurting one, if people wanna compare us to the roman empire then why not act as rome would and take revenge for ANY american harmed by such people? its only right, they terrorise us so we should terrorise them.

no, im not saying that in anger, im saying it from a strategy poing of view, use their ways against them, exploit their weakness and be ruthless.

Does anyone expect the level of crimes against american muslims to increase following these incidents? I live in florida, and there are a lot of muslims down here. as some of Mr Johnsons family was from florida, I cant see them having much respect for them anymore. the muslims ive met at college are nice enough people, but im always suspicious of them.

Originally posted by Flinx

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
They (terroists) know that we're going to get pissed off. Where's the sleeping giant when you need 'em. There's lots of sand over there. How about making some of it a parking lot for the 10,000 years.

You know, I don't think killing millions of innocent people with a nuke is going to help....

Stop with the emotional overreactions people. These are psycho fanatics, what do you expect? We're better than them, so don't start acting like the prisoner abuses are justified now....that's just...twisted. The people in the prison aren't the same people who are doing these killings.

When you pull back and look at the big picture you realize that this crap is nothing new. Look at human history. Mankind is a violent race that has always killed over petty morally objective matters.

Flinx you are exactly right. The difference now, is instead of public beheadings like they did in Old Europe and the Middle East, now we get to see it on the web. These guys are in the same league as the violent drug cartels where anything goes to make a statement to incite fear in your enemy.

This "war" will never really end because it isn't a war about military, but about mentality. The true Muslims need to take back their religion and create a mindset in their culture that terrorist acts are not acts blessed by God. If their social mentality changed to extreme disgust of terrorist acts then I bet that social pressure would filter down to the disaffected young who join these groups to find meaning in their lives.

You will always have nuts in the world, but the muslim world has given too much legitamcy to these nuts out of frustration. And we in the Western world need to back off and let the Middle East live the way they want to live as long as they reduce their tendancy for violent and intolerant behaviour. Arabs need to educate themselves on us, and we need to stop trying pushing our materialist view on them. Look at Tibet...if only the muslim world could follow such a anti-materialist spiritual approach instead of rioting and killing everyone who is different.

To me, these guys are also just like the KKK, in that they kill those who are different...the KKK never disappeared, but over time through education, there was a social shift and the KKK was seen as being unacceptable and now laughable in their beliefs. Hopefully over time the same will occur for these misguided fools.

[edit on 18-6-2004 by Boogie]

Originally posted by miltie
So sad. Chalk this death up to one of the many caused by organized religion. I feel so bad for the family.

Bull crap. Quit being afraid of saying what religion. Was it a Baptist organization that is doing this? Is it the Christian religion that is the most dangerous religion to live next to? Maybe the Hindus, are there Hindu nations attempting to convert of kill the world, deeming the "infidels" worthy of death, praising Vishnu whenever the kill a noncombatant or blowing up a busload of civilians or gunning down a pregnant woman and her children?

No, it is none of the above.

They will not be reasoned with. They have already said they want to kill Americans anywhere they can get us. Period. No talking. No setting examples. I don't understand why people continue to try to attribute the rules of civility and negotiation to these people. They will not be convinced to stop hating or suddenly have some change of heart due to anyone reaching new levels of understanding or any other blah blah. It's noise. They don't care. They hate us and will destroy us to the last man they have standing.

I just wish we could nuke the entire middle-east without destablising the entire world. I can honestly say I would gladly sacrifice a hundred million innocent lives if it meant saving just one American life. Good thing I am not in charge of "the button".

Originally posted by curme
Just a couple of questions for some posters. What country should we bomb? Saudi Arabia? Iraq? Eygpt? Qutar? Turkey? Exactly what countries should we bombed? All of them? A dozen countries? Wouldn't the nuclear fallout affect us as well? If you mean conventional bombs, well, that's a lot of bombs. It would require around-the-clock bombing over several weeks. Logistically very difficult. As for ground action, where are we going to get the troops? A draft? Would you send yourself, or your sons or daughters into these countries? How would we clothe and feed these troops? Higher taxes?

Don't we need a more intelligent way to fight terrorism? Aren't some
Americans reacting exactly the way the terrorist want us to react? So, in effect, this barbaric act has accomplished it's goal. We now have a certain segment of Americans who want us to just blindly go into the abyss, instead of fighting these terrorists more intelligently. Invading Iraq in response to Bin Laden was not a very intelligent way to fight this war on terror, and it looks like we are reaping the fruits of an incompetant commander.

im already in the army and i dont not mind my children taking revenge and kiling extremist thats what they deserve and they will get it trust me because like someone already said my blood is red white and blue and i will not allow them to do this the my people i just cant wait to graduate from westpoint then i can get in the action.