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Hidden Hand Message - Law Of One - Discussion!

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posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Such a shame that you missed the point here. Whether we agree, or disagree, with Unity is not important. What is important is that this thread is supposed to be about discussing the messages and


well this topic should be moved to the freshman section, obviously you have not done your research if someone has to tell you that you are... the Hidden Hand.

therefore I find your argument invalid.


edit on 11/29/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


No, you did not say you were in a school. However, you did say you were perfectly alright with that theory. So, whether you're in a school, or not, you believe such a theory has some validity. So, let me ask you, is the whole world in a school, or is none of the world in a school? And if you say some of the world is in a school, what makes certain people (you?) special enough to be here, but not be in the school?

As for redemption, and redeeming yourself... why are you on a spiritual path if you do not believe that you can better yourself? If you are perfect, complete, and entirely united with your All, why do you pursue spiritual avenues? One who seeks spiritual truths seeks just that; Truth. If you possessed the Truth about yourself, your purpose or reason for existence, and the answer to all of life's questions you would not be spiritual.

I know from reading this thread, and talking with you, that you are spiritual, and you do have beliefs, and you do have goals and destinations. So you are seeking completion, betterment, and unification with your All-Energy Creator. So, what redemption? How about redemption for whatever reason you can provide for why you are not All-Energy yourself?



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I think the Creator, or God. By falling from grace I mean putting a distance between oneself and the divine.

I think we're trying to be redeemed so we can be reconciled with God.

I don't really believe in endless progression. There has to be something we are progressing towards. And if we do have a goal, couldn't the Creator equally likely have created us containing exactly what we need in the first place?

I don't see this as a school system with endless positive growth. I see this as tribulation or a chance to see what life is like without the Creator intervening.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by ThreeDeuce
 


This is discussing HH for me, as HH is distortions. So I stick with the truth. In other words, the reason why I don't believe in HH or the Law of One is.....I think you can see why if you've read my posts. This entire thread is from many people who don't support, HH or the Law Of One, or only support their own versions of these, sharing what they spiritually do believe instead. Thats why its been a very interesting thread.
edit on 29-11-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


I know that the Hidden Hand would like us to assume that we are all interconnected once we've opened our eyes and awakened. Believe me, I have read through this thread, and the supplemental links of the Hidden Hand's posts as collected by one user. I do not need to be told that the Hidden Hand would like me to believe that once awakened I am as he is, and he is as I am.

But I don't believe it, just as many others on this thread do not believe it either. That does not give me the right to derail this thread and discuss what I believe to be right. What it does give me the right to do, is point out where I believe the Hidden Hand has erred in his approach and philosophy. You need to recognize the difference between offering criticism of one's belief, and preaching your own belief.

What do I think the Hidden Hand got wrong?

• That we have only been through 5 phases of the Precession of the Ages (he didn't dispute the 5 phases in his response to the ATS user). Time is endless, a continuous loop. There have been infinite phases.

• That there are Powers that Be, extraterrestrial or not, that want the world encased in a Negative Polarity, so that they can reap a Negative Harvest. I have seen as much good as evil in the world.

• I don't believe that life becomes "senseless" because we don't know about The Game that Hidden Hand preaches. I believe it becomes depressing because of human nature.

Etc. The whole point being—which you missed—that this thread is not for YOUR opinions, but the opinions of the Hidden Hand. Unity, and others, have been preaching their own Gospels, ignoring the Hidden Hand in favor of their own podium. THAT is the problem with this thread, and it is also the root-cause of the sophistry I have seen spiraling maniacally from the over-inflated egos of the more opinionated users on here.

Render me invalid if you like. But I see through your words and realize that you too have lost your way in the past 100 pages.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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we are either absorbing and reflecting or you are rejecting and aggressing.

I admit I am guilty of all 4



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 


I sincerely hope you are trying to illicit laughter and be comical, if not I feel for you and as such I will try to break down my understanding. If I get this wrong, someone please feel free to correct me or assist in my explanation.

Imagine you are a single entity capable of splitting yourself off into different creations, bestowing a piece of yourself within this creation and as such you learn from this creation and it's experiences.

If I am understanding things that is why we were created to experience things and to learn. Those experiences are translated back to the creator, for he is all seeing and all knowing. In a way he is sharing in our experiences and living thru each of us.

Now, why are we forced to come back and repeat... well, we cannot rejoin until we recover the truth and learn and get to a point where we can begin to return. It's kind of like when we discover the meaning of life and remember our past we can move forward having learned from it. In order to have true experiences, we had to be made to forget all that we knew. So that we would go out and explore life and look for answers and have experiences. So, that we would search for meaning and question things. In our search for the answers we sometimes get lost and time runs out before we can solve the puzzle. In that case we are reborn or sent back to try again. It's not out of cruelty as you seem to be seeing it, look at it as another chance in which to remember your past. Your beginning.

We all have memories and such inside us. We were given the tools to help us decipher things it's just that for some it takes longer to learn how to look inisde and begin to unravel things and learn to use them.

Understand, I am not saying I have been able to do this.. I am still very far from accomplishing my goals and completing my journey. This is just a very basic understanding I am trying to bestow on you and comes from my own knowledge base and research.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by letthefactsspeak
 


It is your view that seems comical to me. If everything was created by the Creator, there is nothing He wouldn't know, and as such there is nothing for Him to learn. It makes far more sense that He'd create companions separate from Himself who would love Him with there own will power rather than to divide Himself up and put Himself through useless suffering to learn (and to learn what, I wouldn't know, because He created all so there's nothing hidden to learn!) It makes more sense that some companions used their own will power to glorify themselves and rebel against Him and so He put them in tribulation to see what life is without Him and when they're left to their own devices.

I disagree with the idea that we're automatically divine just for existing. And I disagree with the idea that we're progressing for progression's sake. What's the point of progressing so we can learn enough so we don't have to incarnate again if we could just start off with what we need in the first place? Somehow, if I think we had the Creator's blessings in the first place we wouldn't have to suffer on earth to "learn" things. Either God is wicked or we sought/seek to establish our own authority over His.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by letthefactsspeak
 


It is your view that seems comical to me. If everything was created by the Creator, there is nothing He wouldn't know, and as such there is nothing for Him to learn. It makes far more sense that He'd create companions separate from Himself who would love Him with there own will power rather than to divide Himself up and put Himself through useless suffering to learn (and to learn what, I wouldn't know, because He created all so there's nothing hidden to learn!) It makes more sense that some companions used their own will power to glorify themselves and rebel against Him and so He put them in tribulation to see what life is without Him and when they're left to their own devices.

I disagree with the idea that we're automatically divine just for existing. And I disagree with the idea that we're progressing for progression's sake. What's the point of progressing so we can learn enough so we don't have to incarnate again if we could just start off with what we need in the first place? Somehow, if I think we had the Creator's blessings in the first place we wouldn't have to suffer on earth to "learn" things. Either God is wicked or we sought/seek to establish our own authority over His.


Nature is a reflection of a process at work. It shows us order and cycles. Its about a 'processing and sifting' cycle that is infinite in its works. I would then also assume that the time of this cycle/processing that brings about conscious beings to be aware and observe it all....has some importance in the 'phases of the manifestation' of Thee.

As soon as something manifests outwardly from Thee...there is a distortion of the perfect in that manifestation, but the Divine as unmanifested is still divine and the breath of life that the manifestation holds is also a spark of divine. If you create something and you express yourself through that creation...the creation holds a part of you, a phase of you. It seems separate from you, but it is still of you and it holds a perfection of you within it.

As we learn between the nature of flesh (result of outward manifestation that seems like its separate from its creator/manifestor.....cause and effect of individuality).....and also learn about the nature of spirit, our deepest divine light that is within us all....its not 'god' that is learning....but 'god' is processing theeself. We are like instruments in this great cycle of processing and there have always been and will always be great cycles of processing. There is always a renewing of purification, a perfecting reforming of 'what is'. The conscious beings can choose to live for the life of flesh that they think makes them who they really are....or a true heart that is ready to seek its deepest nature of self will allow the Spirit to use the body, mind, and soul to sift and measure....the true nature inner nature from the outer nature.

Most of what mankinds desires to learn...is things of earth and flesh for it is the main illusion that surrounds their senses. In time, the soul starts to see the little importance of these things on the spiritual path....and see's that the true spirit within them could and can be found, without any book or another man to tell them wise things. For flesh, history attracts us, learning about our kinds in the past of flesh fills our satisfying self for a long long time. The soul will still thirst for something that it knows it has not found, and that something can be found in the very design, order, and cycle, of nature and life itself without books or any history of man or earth or any stories of old. Granted, stories of old can hint at others who found a light of spirit and tried to tell of its nature and greatness....but no matter what another man can tell another man....the light needs to be found by each man on their own path of seeking....so true knowing of our true nature and being can be found.

The path of discernment is long. It works on a individual scale of self and it works as well on a global scale as a whole. We discern through our actions and thoughts from the past and we discern through the worlds actions and thoughts from the past. Still yet, you can take a man and place him on the earth with no history of other man and no stories of earths past....and the Spirit of God can still be found. This is the greatness of Thee and this design that Thee is within.

Some feel that if this is just a 'processing' of self....that the life they are experiencing has little worth then, they fear of loosing the identity of self to such a larger one self. But when one knows that for the process to take on its true harmony of potentials....one is humbled by the fact that they are a part of a divine self, that is one, and that they can then work on allowing this divine self to work through this body, mind, and soul....to process between what it truly is and what it is not in its truest being.

As Thee is constantly expression Theeself and consistently processing Theeself through Thee's expressions of self....so to are we like Thee in that we constantly express ourselves and all of nature is consistently processing itself. Just as Thee infinity processes....so to does the outwardly manifestation of Thee carry this very nature to consistently process.

Look at all the Earths expressions of itself. Look how they all, return to the Earth through cycle and process. The trees are of the Earth, and the Earth is also, within the trees. Our souls are of the Spirit (phases of Thee) and the Spirit is also, within us (as souls). We are in a phase of the Spirit, processing Theeself. Constantly and consistently, re-perfecting and renewing, through order, cycles...processing.

Processing does not suggest that something was not perfect or became imperfect.....but shows that a processing to 'always be' is needed.

To be....is to 'ex-press'. Imagine anything 'be-ing'....without 'ex-pressing'.

All of the above is not needed in 'knowing'. One can be in touch with their deepest nature without beliefs, without understanding the works, without any stories of earth and man.

"Lift a rock, I am there....cut the Tree, you will find me'. This line alone....can lead someone to find Thee, within them and all life that surrounds them. This line alone, holds the grandness and preciousness of Thee.

Of course, as souls...as phases of something that we know not totally what we are of....we learn, we must learn from earthly things and their natures before understanding things of the nature of Spirit.

As many times as I have thought I had understood....I only later had to admit and humble at the little I knew.

Everything that is....is a part of the 'processing' in a larger scale that we cant see. We are a part of it all, we are a part of Thee as well as Thee is within us. Its very perfect and serves what is 'needed'.

The illusion, is that you are separate from your creator....but you are not really at all, your very soul, is of Thee.

I know...the complexity of the works of Thee can not be given justice or true understanding/explaining with my limited words.

You are loved beyond measure...you are not fallen...there are no mistakes or errors....for all things help the sifting of 'renewing' somehow, someway.

I wish you well
LV
edit on 30-11-2010 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by ThreeDeuce
 


I guess you missed the repetitive discussions on things that HH talked about or things that the Law of One talked about.

Both things cover so many ideas about 'life and purpose' that pretty much in some way....all of these discussions show either a agreement or disagreement to them.

My personal reasons for joining the thread began with the disagreements on 'ideas of prison planets, beings incarnating with negative intent out of love and help to others, and the disagreements I have with harvest being a physical event that can only occur at certain 'times'.

Since the thread is so large....its easy to mis someones questions or thoughts pertaining to HH and the Law of One specifically (even though like I said, pretty much all of the discussions touch on an agreement or disagreement to them though maybe not directly mentioning them).

Im sure everyone here would welcome your questions or ideas to be shared again if you felt they were overlooked somehow. If you have read through it all...Im also sure you may have noticed that even the OP (who made this thread) has as well shared deeply his own personal thoughts and ideas and has welcomed others to join in that.

My best
LV
edit on 30-11-2010 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Annee
 


I think the Creator, or God. By falling from grace I mean putting a distance between oneself and the divine.

I think we're trying to be redeemed so we can be reconciled with God.

I don't really believe in endless progression. There has to be something we are progressing towards. And if we do have a goal, couldn't the Creator equally likely have created us containing exactly what we need in the first place?

I don't see this as a school system with endless positive growth. I see this as tribulation or a chance to see what life is like without the Creator intervening.


What did we do that we must be reconciled for?



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Such a shame that you missed the point here. Whether we agree, or disagree, with Unity is not important. What is important is that this thread is supposed to be about discussing the messages and prophecies of the Hidden Hand... NOT the personal beliefs of Unity. If Unity, or you, or IAMIAM, or anyone else on here believes they know the truth, go start your own thread and preach your gospel. The Hidden Hand didn't talk about the family of light, and DVD-schools, or anything like that. So Unity is off-topic.

See the point now?


Surely the point of any thread is to generate debate? HH has already been discussed and rightly discounted by most of the people here. Why discuss something that is no longer relevant?

Instead This thread has blossomed into a place for people to share what they believe and understand to be true about spirituality, I for 1, find it interesting to see such open dialogue and judging by the ever expanding sidelines it's clear, others feel the same...Oh! would you look at that, the people on the sidelines are doing a mexican wave in agreement...

edit on 30-11-2010 by strangleholder1 because: HH forced me to use the wrong smiley....



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by strangleholder1
 


Though this world is very hard.


I completely agree with this statement of yours,

My life has been tough for many reasons, for you see I'm the only person I know who was born without hands. The following story will perhaps go some way in explaining my unwavering aggression towards HH.

I remember when I first heard of him, I thought we would eventually become friends due to our shared disorder but alas no, things did not turn out that way. I would spend long Summer nights wondering if this man's hands were not hidden but actually out! and in full view.
He never showed any interest in discussing the issues faced by people without hands e.g. dialling wands, nose typing, clapping etc..
In fact all he ever wanted to talk about was "The Family", I thought at the time he was either really into the godfather or this guy was some sort of mafioso. The shocking truth came out eventually though, HH does indeed have hands, 8 of them in fact and they're all busy typing away under different pseudonyms...Watch out for them,they look like this
(not actual size)

Wishing you Love and large 40w bulbs of endless LEDs and incandescent optical illuminating brightly into the eternal infinite of bottoming wells and wandering scribes, shining wisdom and IAMIAM not hidden from eternal progression and the illuminations of light...
edit on 30-11-2010 by strangleholder1 because: Jesus told me to...



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by ThreeDeuce
 


This is discussing HH for me, as HH is distortions. So I stick with the truth. In other words, the reason why I don't believe in HH or the Law of One is.....I think you can see why if you've read my posts. This entire thread is from many people who don't support, HH or the Law Of One, or only support their own versions of these, sharing what they spiritually do believe instead. Thats why its been a very interesting thread.
edit on 29-11-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)


Again, you have yet to cite specific distortions.

And no, this is not for people to discuss their own versions of the HH message, but it is to discuss the original HH message.

By discussion, what you need to do is cite specific parts of the HH message that you think are wrong or are distortions. Don't be general.

Generalizations get nothing done in debates or intellectual conversation.

Rather than just stating your own beliefs (which make you sound elitist) discuss the exact problems that you have with the HH message.

This is not difficult, surely if you feel so much against this HH message you can find specific parts of it that you think are distortions.

Or, are the distortions so small, that when you start to list them, that they start sounding inconsequential compared to the entire message.

Unity, I do not agree with the way that you approach the subject of the HH message, much less your direction of replies in this thread. Please learn to debate something, or have an intellectual conversation. As it stands, the way you talk, it makes it sound as if you believe that you are 100%, and everyone else that has anything to say is 100% wrong.

There are no certainties in beliefs, even if you truly believe there are. You must leave room for human error and lack of judgement.

So again, I ask... please list specifics on what you don't agree with, and don't spout out your personal beliefs.

Because I could care less about your personal beliefs, unless you are talking about the subject of the thread, HH or LoO.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by strangleholder1


Surely the point of any thread is to generate debate? HH has already been discussed and rightly discounted by most of the people here. Why discuss something that is no longer relevant?






I have yet to see anything rightly discounted by anyone in this thread.
I have yet to see specifics discussed.

If the HH message is partially true, than MANY people's personal beliefs are blown out of the water, just due to the huge scope of the message.

Most people's beliefs have hard enough trouble accounting for things in our worldly knowledge, much less things that are beyond our imagination.

The original thread title and conversation is still relevant.
Or, since some people say they don't agree, you think we should stop discussing and debating the HH message all in all?

You my friend would be a very easy target of disinfo agents.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by ThreeDeuce
 


My personal reasons for joining the thread began with the disagreements on 'ideas of prison planets, beings incarnating with negative intent out of love and help to others, and the disagreements I have with harvest being a physical event that can only occur at certain 'times'.

LV
edit on 30-11-2010 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)


What other logical reason can you give on why some beings or entities would want to perpetuate evil on the world.

Or, do you believe everyone is good in this world. I definitely don't think that is the case, all you have to do is look around and you can see that there is evil in this world.

There is always a ying to the yang. just because you might not agree with the reasoning of the yang, just because you are in the ying side, you need to realize that there might be reason beyond the scope of your understanding of the situation.

The HH message really describes luceriferianism to me, and how there easily could be a duplicity in this world.

The only reason that you can disagree with a harvest focused around a physical event is conjecture.
The harvest principal coincides directly with 2012 principals which have been fortold by many civilizations in the past. Mayan, Hopi, Sumerian just to name a few.

Are you saying that there could be no physical date just because you dont believe it. Surely YOU not believing in it would stop it from happening if its real. Or is it possible that past civiliations were trying to warn us about something.

Remember this date was So important that they wanted future generations to wake up and see that something miraculous is going to happen.

Also, doesn't a physical harvesting event coincide directly with biblical judgement day/ armageddon.
Oh wait, but you don't believe that it will happen, that surely will stop biblically fortold events also.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Such a shame that you missed the point here. Whether we agree, or disagree, with Unity is not important. What is important is that this thread is supposed to be about discussing the messages and prophecies of the Hidden Hand... NOT the personal beliefs of Unity. If Unity, or you, or IAMIAM, or anyone else on here believes they know the truth, go start your own thread and preach your gospel. The Hidden Hand didn't talk about the family of light, and DVD-schools, or anything like that. So Unity is off-topic.

See the point now?


Thank you much Wandering Scribe for seeing the point of my post.

It's not that I'm critiquing Unity, or saying I don't agree with her.

I don't agree with the hijacking of the thread, and the inability to discuss the HH message.

Unity's mannerisms and deflection techniques seem the same type that government disinfo agents would use to keep people from discussing other important topics.

"As long as you can keep people off subject, you keep them from finding truth"

As for Unity's personal beliefs she has more than adequately described them.
Heck, we could put them all in a thread titled
"Unity's beliefs trump HH message discussion"

What I don't understand is how can so many people blindly disregard the HH message.

Many people attempting to discredit the HH message are only echoing beliefs in the message over and over.
Many of unity's beliefs are echoed in the LoO and HH message, so I have trouble understanding their extreme hatred of HH message.

---------------------

Wouldn't the world be better if we all lived by the HH message?

----------------------



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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Greetings to All. Just wanted to raise a few points for discussion.

Do we feel a true Luciferian would not aspire to deceive even among his disclosures of truth? To get his sanctioned allowance of knowledge across while at the same time promoting an agenda of deceit? To understand the function of Lucifer is to realise that DECEPTION and MANIPULATION are their master trades, and have been using their knowledge and cunning longer than many could ever acknowledge. And that is among those whom do not actually deny their existence and presence here.

Do we really know who Lucifer is? The force he truly represents? Do we feel that after millenia of manipulations and deceptions against humanity resulting in much torture, carnage and suffering, they will suddenly pull the curtain back and say ta da, here is the Truth of our 'true' function, it's just a game and we all kiss and hug later. I certainly don't believe that, though we are all entitled to our own beliefs of course. However he was also letting you know the material was not 100 per cent truth by stating that specific events would occur at particular time frames. They did not come to pass. Therefore he was doing humanity a favour by revealing his flaws in delivery of knowledge to discern. Please seek out any inconsistencies for yourselves, truth should be seeked rather than delivered on a platter. I feel I have been a little too forthcoming in what I have shared thus far.

I will put my two cents in if you don't mind and just stipulate that Luciferians don't want you in any way connecting to the divinity and sacred power of Christ. There is a real battle that is taking place and true knowledge and positive actions in love towards our true Father in Heaven (not the Luciferian Father of Lies) and our global brothers and sisters will be the keys to making amends for our redemption. We have more spiritual power in Christ to deny Luciferian evils/corruptions/abomonations than servants of Legion would ever want you to realise. Zeitgeist was another example of truths delivered, whilst deceiving/distorting on essential points. Same as Hidden Hand. This is my path I have chosen to share, however we must all find our own and may it lead to salvation in Christ.

I pray all humanity be washed and protected from the will of Lucifer and his servants by the blood of Christ. Amen.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 30-11-2010 by benedict9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Annee
 


No, you did not say you were in a school. However, you did say you were perfectly alright with that theory. So, whether you're in a school, or not, you believe such a theory has some validity. So, let me ask you, is the whole world in a school, or is none of the world in a school? And if you say some of the world is in a school, what makes certain people (you?) special enough to be here, but not be in the school?

As for redemption, and redeeming yourself... why are you on a spiritual path if you do not believe that you can better yourself? If you are perfect, complete, and entirely united with your All, why do you pursue spiritual avenues? One who seeks spiritual truths seeks just that; Truth. If you possessed the Truth about yourself, your purpose or reason for existence, and the answer to all of life's questions you would not be spiritual.

I know from reading this thread, and talking with you, that you are spiritual, and you do have beliefs, and you do have goals and destinations. So you are seeking completion, betterment, and unification with your All-Energy Creator. So, what redemption? How about redemption for whatever reason you can provide for why you are not All-Energy yourself?


Am I on a spiritual path? That would really be determined by what one considers/believes is spiritual.

Actually - - I believe in energy consciousness. Is that spiritual?

Truth? Who's/what Truth?

Completion? Betterment? . . . not my thinking. Unification - - maybe.

Do I have beliefs? Yes.

I do believe there is more then one "belief" participating in our world of consciousness.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


I don't think the kingdoms made by man is everlasting. God will come suddenly and establish His own kingdom. Things will not last this way forever, when the age of man's rule is over God will rule. Pride, I think, is the original sin that makes us fallen. To think that there is no authority over our own or that we don't need to listen to God and can still be happy. We are living in a world where God usually doesn't interfere, and where there is hunger, sickness, and death. But the basic promise of Christianity is the world to come will actually be a good place.



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