reply to post by LeoVirgo
I think the idea that nature and life...are not natural...is as dark as a idea can get.
First of all I just wanted to say that I think you are viewing this from the wrong perspective, what I've suggested above is no different than what
Christianity and many other religions/beliefs out there believe in when it comes to a - 'Intelligent Designer' 'Creator, GOD and so on.
Even Jesus Christ taught about Eternal Life and the afterlife/heavens.
To further respond to this I want to bring up a scriptural thought on this found from the book of Genesis.
Take it as you will.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself,
upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind:
and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons,
and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged
fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind:
and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and
God saw that it was good.
26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the
air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image; in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of
the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the
fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given
every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Just because this world is made of energy does not prove in any way that this is a 'computer system' or simulated reality.
Just to clear this up, I haven't suggested that this existence is a simulated reality or computer system but I have used that as a metaphor/analogy
since it's one of the most advanced things that humans have ever created – Technology wise.
I posted the holodeck/holographic created realities merely as metaphor and even if humans simulated a super technological/interactive type of world
within this one where a person could experience, feel, hear, smell and maybe even taste it would still be an 'Anthill' in comparison to this
Universe and the spectacular beauty of the planet, nature and all life that is ALIVE, REAL and ETERNAL. Anything that humans create on this planet
never could even come close whatsoever, to Life as we know it. I do see that you've taken the post from an entirely different angle/view/perspective
than how I intended it to be taken.
There are many in the world who believe in an 'Intelligent Designer' A Creator and/or GOD for Man in this 1 Universe/Creation of 'Infinite.'
I would rather my children take on any religion and submit to it then to be taught that the spirit of life is not real and nature is not
The spirit of life is 'Eternal' and all things are 'Eternal' but everything was organized and placed into Creation by a Creator. If you want to
call that natural then you can because the elements/materials of everything are NOT simulated but are 'Eternal' and have always existed in one form
.is a way to hold people by the boot straps and cause then to not seek past things like 'experiences'.
I realize you have suggested this in many of your posts about how people believe what they do out of 'fear' of losing self or because that is how
they want it to be and have a hard time accepting or facing the reality that we cease to exist and are recycled upon death and that's fine I can
respect your belief/view on that.
There are some things that you've written about me in subtle ways which could be taken as insults but I do my best to always pass these type of
things up and maybe that is all I should say on that. I'm quite familiar with your belief/philosophy about things from reading over your posts as
well as being part of a few online religious discussion forums. I respect your beliefs and views and if it wasn't for my own personal experiences
that were as physical as life on this planet as we know it then I would most definitely put into question everything as I've always been a so called
'truth seeker' from an early age on in life. And you may notice I'm using the word life because yes 'We are Alive' and this is 'Life' I've
never suggested it to be artificial or that we are artificial intelligence. I'm sorry that you've taken this in the wrong way, I can only say maybe
review what I've written. Many others out there do believe in an 'Intelligent Designer' Creator/GOD when it comes to 'Genesis' for man and
Creation where E=MC2 or Matter was Organized/Created from 'Eternal' materials to bring forth such an 'awesome 'LIVE' Creation.
How in the world can you all mention the word 'spirit' in any of your belief of a simulated reality where nature is not really natural I will
I see that you've really taken the post in an entirely different way than it was intended. I've used things as simulations holographic
realities/worlds in metaphor because it's the only thing humans can come close to using (in comparison/analogy) that we have in all of human Creation
to compare it with to Life as we know it, that is very much --- 'ALIVE' and a very 'REAL' reality that we are experiencing, however you must
consider that there are also many 'Illusions' in this world that perhaps are not as they may seem to us in comparison for the Creator. Illusions of
the 'mind' that is but the post I made was never to suggest that we are inside some type of computerized matrix system like in the movie --- NO not
at all. I've tried to get people to think 'Out of the Box' a little and realize that Creation for the Creator/Creators of 'Infinite' Creators is
the same thing as us organizing matter and putting it into creation down here on Earth. Matter/Energy is also 'Eternal' and has been around forever
in one form or another and we take and use some of this matter ourselves on Earth and we Design/Create automobiles, shopping malls, clothing and
other such things out of these materials.
It doesn't mean this world is not real or Alive. Now from human perspective would we call the technologies we've created Natural? NO probably not
but man-made, but the materials in which we constructed them from do come from 'Eternal' materials such as 'Energy/Matter.' Therefore these
technologies can also be recycled and many out there are recycling things all the time such as water bottles, soft drink cans and so on as an example.
Our very bodies break down when we pass on from them and the materials of the human body return to the dust. So the materials or 'energy/matter' of
our bodies is REAL and is ETERNAL however there is much more to 'Us' 'All of us' on this planet than just dust and 'Eternal/Matter' there is a
spirit and soul behind our bodies and many animals found in nature also have 'souls.' Among other things, virtually anything can have an eternal
'spirit/soul' placed into it but it doesn't mean that all things do have a 'soul/spirit' in them such as coke cans and water bottles for
example. Such things are just matter/energy and can be recycled but they are 'eternal' and have always been.
Consider some of the illusions intentionally placed in this world for humans by design that we do not see or realize as this LIFE was meant to be a
'Veil of forgetfulness' so that we could have freewill to choose our own path without influence of knowing why we were placed on this planet or
where we came from exactly. This was necessary and this is all part of the earth life/school/experience/test --- that is why our human minds do not
have access to our preexistence Memories of 'Existing' before we came to be on this planet. If I never had my own type of personal experiences about
their being an afterlife than I would also be in question but deep down inside that same spirit feeling you receive within yourself that tells you
that you are 'Eternal' and part of something much greater than just your temporal self is what tells you that you are an 'Eternal being' at right
being Daughter of an Eternal Family connected to them and created in their own image/likeness/Design of them.
Such goes the saying 'As Above So Below” --- Like Father like Son, Like Mother like Daughter.'
You might as well as leave words like spirit out of all of this for you have just stabbed the idea of spirit of any sort within 'life' in the
I am very much at Peace with the spirit inside of me, I do take reverence as you put it to the 'Spirit' that connects all of us. You have
interpreted some of the posts I've made in your own way. There is a 'oneness' in likeness/design found but in many unique ways, there is not just
1 type of relationship/connection or 'oneness' we share.
A few thoughts on that.
All Energy is 'One' in likeness being Energy ---'One' Energy and Eternal Matter.
All Spirit is 'One' in likeness being spirit or Eternal 'Spirit.'
All Family is 'One' in likeness being Family or Father, Mother, Daughter, Son and so on.
There are Eternal relationships and connections we have one-1 to another in likeness being spirit Family and Eternal.
Just because we all have an Eternal spirit inside of us doesn't mean that we are all the same person or being. There is another spirit that connects
eternal 'souls' one-1 to another or a Holy Spirit that we can tune into. We all can share this spirit and that spirit is of Love, Peace and
Comfort. The spirit of Christ and of Truth some consider this to be the Holy Ghost. Just because we can all tune in and share this spirit doesn't
mean we are all ONE person or being ---but we are connected in relationship/likeness to one-1 another being Sons and Daughters of an Eternal Father &
Mother (Family) we have in the Heavens above. The relationship of a 'FAMILY' on Earth shows us the truth.
'As Above So Below, Like Father like Son, Like Daughter like Mother' We are connected in likeness in spirit being 'Family' but we are all unique
just like our very Earth life family is unique and each has their own spirit personalities. That is not an illusion, the illusion is the matter behind
our human bodies and this material world. It is Energy/Matter some of which is like coke cans and water bottles that is without consciousness and can
be recycled but we are not like coke cans or water bottles and Our Father, Mother and Family in the Heavens/Existences above would never recycle us
like coke cans or bottles in the same way that we would never wish our own children to be recycled.
FAMILIES ARE FOREVER!
The family demonstrates the Like Father Like Son. Like Daughter like Mother relationship and this is what reflects all of 'Infinity/Eternity'
showing us the truth of 'AS ABOVE SO BELOW.'
I know that you also feel and know that we are all part of something much greater than 'self' and you are very right Lynette we are part of an
'ETERNAL FAMILY' which is in the Heavens that loves us and we do have a Father, Mother, Grandfather, Great grandfather and so on just like we do on
Earth. AS ABOVE SO BELOW. This is what we consider to be our 'Eternal' or 'Spirit' Family which is also Eternal in the same way that all
'Matter/Energy' is eternal. But there is a difference between coke cans, water bottles and spirits/souls like us that are aware and we use the coke
cans and water bottles. We recycle them and we create new things with this energy and matter. So does our Family in the Heavens create new things and
organize Energy/Matter into Creation. But they do not re-organize/recycle the eternal spirit only the 'Matter/Energy' that exists or the 1st
ingredient that is simply energy/matter like coke cans and water bottles and they use such energy/matter to create wonderful things such as planets,
suns, galaxies and other types of Creation.
The only way this life from this simulated perspective has any worth at all to remain in it...is that somehow you still believe we have a
'natural soul' which really doesnt seem to fit into this whole perspective and to me becomes wishful thinking in your created experiences of being
I wouldn't even use the word 'natural' and maybe I look upon the word differently than others, I would call our 'Souls' ETERNAL. Our Eternal
spirits/souls only temporally occupy these body/vessels of matter but the 'Soul' lives on forever unlike the coke cans, dirt and water bottles do.
Energy and Matter can be recycled, used to create new things in materials like shown on planet Earth today we recycle things and use them to Create
new things. That is how 'Matter/Energy' works and the Creator also works in such a way with 'Matter/Energy' and organizes recycles it but the
'Spirit' or 'Soul' found within this 'Matter/Energy' is not recycled. How could a Father ever recycle his son? The Family and Father/Mother in
the Heavens loves us and would never recycle us and they know us better than we know ourselves. We will remember much more and become much more aware
of all of this when the 'Veil' is lifted upon leaving the body/vessel of our Energy/matter/e=mc2 bodies which are only temporally setup/designed for
us to experience them. Then this matter or BODY as we know it will be recycled but our 'Spirit/Soul' will move on and return to our Father/Mother
and (Family) in the Heavens/Utopia existences above (call them what you will.)
The holograms we create...do not hold natural life.
Nor do the water bottles and coke cans we drink and this shows that E=MC2 can be recycled and used again for us to Create something out of it. This
goes to show that the very earth itself has E=MC2 that we humans even use to organize and create things for our own purpose/design. This is similar to
how things were organized/created for the Creator/Creators or (Family) on a much higher level. Instead of them creating airports, shopping malls,
food containers and so on they organized and Created planets, worlds, suns and the Universe from E=MC2 which is also 'Eternal' but for them it may
not be 'natural.' ETERNAL is a better word to use in this case since we also don't call our water bottles and coke cans 'natural' nor do we
consider our computers and TV's to be natural either. But nevertheless they are creations made by our own hands and this planet and Universe was
created/designed by an 'Intelligent Creator/Creators' in the same fashion ---'AS ABOVE SO BELOW.'
The computers ect that we make...do not hold the spirit of life. They are not natural manifestations....they are man made and there is a world
I agree, and I hope that this part has been made clear that the materials we've created come from the Earth and are merely Einstein formula or
E=MC2/'Energy/Matter.' They are not natural but they can be recycled and are 'ETERNAL' and were organized into something that we as humans down
here decided to Create out of them. Again in the same way that all things were also organized and Created by the Creator/Creators/Family.
In a strange way...thank you! You helped me weigh and measure again, the divinity that I find within 'life' itself and its
I also find Divinity in Creation and all things that are Eternal and I know that in many subtle ways you've been suggesting this all along or as you
put it --- As one stumbles down the staircase another seems to find themselves on stronger ground or something to that affect. That is perfectly fine
Lynette if you feel that you are right and I know this is really what you are meaning to say. But it's OK, it doesn't change WHAT IS and all things
are ETERNAL and Families are Forever and you are part of that Eternal Family we have and I feel that you will be overjoyed in tears when you pass away
and the veil as been lifted from your eyes only to meet with your MANY Loved one's on the other side that all know you better than you know yourself
in this lifetime. They understand you, they love you and they will be there for you as well. Your brother, grandparents and all of them will be there.
This isn't hopeful or wishful thinking because we want it to be that way, it's because IT IS that way. If I knew that what you were sharing with me
was the truth along the lines of 'pantheism/Buddhism then I would accept it --- but then again I probably would never have made it back into my body
from an experience I had if that was the case. I would have just been recycled instantly and not been aware of it anymore. I just want you to know
that I do understand where you are coming from and I do have Love and Respect for you and all living things on this planet moreso than you may
think/realize Lynette but I do recognize that water bottles and coke cans are man-made products from the Earth without Eternal 'Soul' however the
matter/energy they are made of is Eternal.
I wish I could come across as being more kind about this..
You are doing just fine Lynette and thanks, I do understand and I hope that I'm being kind enough to you as well. I don't mean to come off sounding
unkind if anything is taken that way it's not my intentions at all. I truly hope this post clears some things up!
And no....my reaction does not say something about myself
That's fine, you are a great spirit Lynette and I know you are sincere, genuine and loving and I can see that's why such a suggestion of humans
living in a matrix system would be taken so offensively because of those deep feelings you hold within about all life and Creation. I do hope you
realize that I've never suggested we are living in a type of matrix in the way you've described but that I've used some of the human technologies
as comparisons/metaphor/analogy to the grandness of this vast and REAL, ALIVE, universe that consists of E=MC2 Matter/Energy in all of it's
You and yours will alwys be in my thoughts...as well as everyone that has participated. I do wish you well and the best...with true intent.
Thank you so much and I know you mean it, I can feel that and I also have love for you and for everyone --- we are FAMILY and you are part of
something much greater than just your temporal earth/life 'self' which is an Eternal Family. I know that we will all meet one day in the midst of
Good luck to all on their paths
Thank you and my deepest/sincerest apologies if you've been upset or hurt over anything that I've written.
Love to you always,