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So if Germany started both world wars....

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posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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im from the uk and i dont hate the us, or americans, we just get pissed off with the stereotypes we see on stupid shows like the hills and jersey shore because basically the only poeple we see from america are them and bs politicians

do i hate america .... no
do i disagree and dislike some of the things the establishments says and does... yes

and i can say the same thing for my country and most other countries i look at

america is no way singled out by me and many other people i know and i dont know of any governments that arent self serving, dont really have the peoples interest at heart or havent committed some atrocities in the past

take britain we have done loads of evil stuff in the past and people still hate us for it but that does not reflect the views and nature of the general public in this country and the same goes for germany

it is pointless to hate a country for things done in the past by different people

concentrate on what is happening in the here and now and try and do something about it

moosevernel




posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by moosevernel
 

I totally agree with you moose, I mean I agree with very little of whats going on in America these days, and I feel that they have lost touch with the public on certain issues. But, like you said, just because the people that represent this country decide to go invade Iran and interfere with foreign affairs, doesn't mean that you should hate the country as a whole. Not all of us want to be there. I personally don't even know the real reason for being there. But the point is that why do we blame countries and not the leaders? I mean Hitler got millions of people to beleive that Jews were the reason that they were in an economic depression.. people were poor, they beleived him because he promised change.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by wheredacheesego
 


my points exactly, the whole system is flawed and people just want somebody to blame

and instead of the people responsible it is the public who recieve the hate

its wrong but it happens



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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i don't hate america but sometimes an american will make me feel like i do.
theres much to say on this but as i read through it already has been said.

ww1 1914 Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assainated by orders of the black hand which originated in serbia.
this action was key to the build up of ww1.

ww2 Hitler = austrian. the ss was created by hitler (austrian) but was lead by himler.
the german people were also a victim to the rise of the nazi party.

America drinks 20000 barrels of oil per day and start illegal wars to eventually secure more as it's military is heavily reliant on oil.

[edit on 9-8-2010 by listerofsmeg]



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 


And how many bases does Russia have internationally today? How many does the US have?




Presently, Russia has military bases in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Ukraine – all of which are post-Soviet republics.

rt.com...

So that would be 4 countries with Russian bases.




The US Military has bases in 63 countries. Brand new military bases have been built since September 11, 2001 in seven countries.

www.globalresearch.ca...

63-4. Hmm...



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by SevenThunders
 


How do you equate people who are angry with the US being anti-Semitic?

You are right in saying that many of those military actions were in fact "police actions" to protect US interests. Now let me ask you something: was it right for the US to encourage and prop up a brutal dictator to protect a banana company? Was it right for the US to greenlight Indonesia's invasion of East Timor? Was it right for the US to mine Nicaragua's harbor?

Looking at your avatar, I see you are a Christian, as am I. Now, do you really think God would approve of these "police actions"?

[edit on 9-8-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by woogleuk
They sat on their backsides stuffing their faces until the Japs bombed Pearl Harbour...


Slowly, FDR was supplying the British with war materiel. Americans were volunteering to fly with the RAF, or the Canadians, etc.


In exchange for the se supplies, we racked up huge debts (which we only paid off in 2005) and basically had to promise to dismantle the EMpire after the War was over.


Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by woogleuk
The British Empire and the Russians had the war practically won...


By 1941? Really?


I think you'll find that it was 1942 before the US really got committed to the War effort, by which time the Russians had the Wehtmacht licked, the BoB had been won and the Battle of the Atlantic was a mere formality, mainly won by the RAF and RN.


Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by woogleuk
...but they didn't even commit to half the struggle, millions of Europeans died fighting for our freedom, America just stepped in to serve their own interests....


Really? Their own interests? I guess, "helping England" was selfish of the US...


Look up the Tizard mission. See what conditions where put against the UK in exchange for loans and material.

It was hardly altruistic of you when you did join in and it took a huge effort from the UK Secret Services to coerce, pursuade and bribe US officials to even send the material you did, let alone join in. It took an attack by Japan (which the US knew about) to galvanise the US population into war and even then, you only declared on Japan and not Germany.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 05:48 AM
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1 more little anti american thing relating to ww2.
america announced that it wouldn't be dragged into another european war.
america did not want to help with the fighting until it was forced.

but there are many good things about america to, if america didn't send us aid, many would have starved.
no-one smart cares about past actions, only present ones.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by woogleuk
Wow, you know, for the most part, I like Americans, the ones I am friends with are real nice people and don't like to kiss their own bums.

ARE YOU SERIOUS! I'm almost certain Serbia sparked WW1, I could be wrong about that, but regardless, Germany was left smashed by the end of it, bankrupt, struggling to survive. When things started to get better they secretly built up their military forces under the rule of Adolf Bush, ahem, sorry, Hitler, and he wanted territory back, and it went from there. He conqured most of Europe and couldn't break Britain, British Forces had pretty much beaten the Italians and Germans in North Africa before the US had recovered from Pearl Harbor. The USSR had got the upper hand at Stalingrad, So it brought the European conflict almost to a close.

Yes America did get a lot of supplies through, but they were quite busy at that point plotting the strategic genocide of tens of thousands of Japanese civilians by dropping a couple of nasty devices on their noggins. (OK granted it, brought that part of the conflict to a swift end).

The USA DID NOT take a leading role on the European front, although i'm sure assistance was helpful, they were needed more in the Pacific.

The simple fact is, when it came to it, all the Allies all pulled together as a team in their respective roles, sure the was might have taken longer without the USAs help, but no way did they play the leading role. I would like to say, ON THE EUROPE FRONT it was the British Commonwealth, then the Russians not far behind, then the USA, but I will be accused of basing that notion on my patriotism, and not simple facts.



EDIT: Just to say, Germany is actually now quite a nice country (although a tad odd), and I think it is safe to say that they have learned from the mistakes of the past.

Also for the record, I don't hate the people of America, I don't think very highly of the arrogant, "we are the best, we do everything in this world" ones amongst you, and you know what, there are people like that here in Britain too, in fact probably in most of the countries of the world, get over yourselves, otherwise we may just get WWIII.

Peace can only be achieved when everyone starts respecting each other.

[edit on 6/8/10 by woogleuk]


England called us up to help because you guys were scared they were gonna invade the island..... You Brits thought you could handle the Germans but when they pushed you out of the main land you needed our help and we came we saw we conquered. We lost more soldiers than any other country in WW2... We saved all of your arses!!!!!!!!!! Please don't slander and talk down on our country because we do not do it to yours.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Reign02]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by Reign02
 


is that what they teach you in school.
ok but we were fighting 3 years before you even started fighting for our side.
for the most part you were fighting japanese in the pacific.
we got the enigma decoding device first.
we were allies in this when you finaly got involved 1941 sept.





[edit on 10-8-2010 by listerofsmeg]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 07:11 AM
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Being German myself I feel I could add some more to this thread.
I've lived in California for 6 years and spent the majority of my life in various other countries. I've got a pretty good idea of the cultures of those nations I've visited and most of my family lives in Germany and a few in the US, but all being German.

I don't agree with some of the aspects in their culture and the extreme commercialism prevalent in their media. We are all products of our upbringing and environment. In particular, I find the "Not a problem, we can do this. Let's have at it!" type attitude both admirable but at the same time very grating. Confidence is one thing, but such a stance badly needs balance in the form of self-analysis and reflection. Yet I feel this is a mostly a problem with positions of authority, like say the government.

You know, the whole 'Steamrolling' the middle east thing...

I have a bunch of American friends that I think are awesome and I've never hated the US or Americans. In fact I enjoyed my time in California immensely and I regret not being able to explore more of it and other states.

As for the whole WW1 + WW2 part of this thread, I find the majority of the discussion here superficial and uninformed. Perhaps that's too arrogant a statement but it has, by no means, been a free ride for Germany or, in particular, its people.

History has an uncanny ability to be obfuscated, even so we know a few important details to explain WW1 and WW2.

Pre-WW1 saw Europe networked into two camps of allies that only needed one small event to set off a much bigger one. Ferdinand's assassination is the common catalyst but it doesn't matter if it was, any small event would have triggered that world war.

WW2 was a result of the peace treaty of WW1 and Hitler's ambition. While he originally did a lot of good for Germany through his public works and youth camps restoring confidence to the people, it was treacherous. People got swept up off their feet and before they realized what really was going on, there wasn't much that could be done. Resistance groups existed but had little impact in the Totalitarian state.

The topic is vast but there's a lot of information out there to look up and read if you're so inclined.

I just find the "OMG STUPID GERMANS AT IT AGAIN" type generalizations to be immensely frustrating. Probably because I've had a fair share of Nazi comments directed to me while I was abroad simply for being German. Guess a lot of people need even more time.

All the best,
T



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
In exchange for the se supplies, we racked up huge debts (which we only paid off in 2005) and basically had to promise to dismantle the EMpire after the War was over.


Really? I thought England paid it off years ago. But it was called, "Lend-Lease", not "Give away". I do know that they only had to pay for materiel that was kept after the war. That's why when British carriers returning from the Pacific were pushing over brand new Corsairs, Avengers, Hellcats, etc, into the ocean.


Originally posted by stumason[/i
I think you'll find that it was 1942 before the US really got committed to the War effort, by which time the Russians had the Wehtmacht licked, the BoB had been won and the Battle of the Atlantic was a mere formality, mainly won by the RAF and RN.


The individual that I was replying to was stating that England and Russia had the war won by the time Pearl Harbor happened in Dec 1941. And that was far from the case.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Reign02
England called us up to help because you guys were scared they were gonna invade the island..... You Brits thought you could handle the Germans but when they pushed you out of the main land you needed our help and we came we saw we conquered. We lost more soldiers than any other country in WW2... We saved all of your arses!!!!!!!!!! Please don't slander and talk down on our country because we do not do it to yours.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Reign02]


That is just offensive, we were far from scared, British hearts and minds were solid, Winston Churchills words for inspiration. Germany could not land on our shores, we beat them every step of the way, and then we started to turn the tide on them.

Deaths during WWII

United states 418,500
United Kingdom 449,800
Soviet Union 23,954,000
France 567,600

So my friend, you couldn't be more wrong.

You saved nobodys arse, you contributed to the winning of the war.

And I have seen nothing but slander of the UK by several Americans on this site. In fact outside of ATS I have never argued over this with any American. I have a lot of American friends who I love and respect, in fact, here on ATS the Americans who slander us are the minority, but it still winds me up.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by woogleuk
 


your very true friend.
even the mornings after we were bombed the people continued to work and remain strong.
st pauls cathedral was saved and remained a major source or moral for us brits.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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You should look at the divisions storming the beaches of France. How many of those were Brits???? Ohh yea that is right like one or two. GG.

And Im in no way slandering the Brits AT ALL!!! I train with you guys daily.... I am just saying that you guys were being forced out of the mainland and we came to help.


Ohh yea and about those death tolls. How many years longer were ya'll fighting?? And didn't you guys need a bunch of civilians ships to rescue you guys from mainland Europe?
[edit on 10-8-2010 by Reign02]



[edit on 10-8-2010 by Reign02]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Reign02
You should look at the divisions storming the beaches of France. How many of those were Brits???? Ohh yea that is right like one or two. GG.

And Im in no way slandering the Brits AT ALL!!! I train with you guys daily.... I am just saying that you guys were being forced out of the mainland and we came to help.


Ohh yea and about those death tolls. How many years longer were ya'll fighting?? And didn't you guys need a bunch of civilians ships to rescue you guys from mainland Europe?
[edit on 10-8-2010 by Reign02]



[edit on 10-8-2010 by Reign02]



I never said you were slandering us, i said a "few" others do


Anyway.....

On D-Day, the Allies landed around 156,000 troops in Normandy. The American forces landed numbered 73,000: 23,250 on Utah Beach, 34,250 on Omaha Beach, and 15,500 airborne troops. In the British and Canadian sector, 83,115 troops were landed (61,715 of them British): 24,970 on Gold Beach, 21,400 on Juno Beach, 28,845 on Sword Beach, and 7900 airborne troops.

As Canada is part of the British Empire (or is it commonwealth?) that gives us the larger numbers :p

Either way that is D-Day at Normandy, and doesn't take into account fighting in other areas.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by Reign02
 


this was only acheivable because of operation overlord,
british bombers destroyed about 5000 german gun batteries in preparation for d-day.
thank you



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by listerofsmeg
reply to post by Reign02
 


this was only acheivable because of operation overlord,
british bombers destroyed about 5000 german gun batteries in preparation for d-day.
thank you


Yea and the Americans helped with that operation.....



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Reign02
 


in what way exactly, we were allies and helped with everything but some beleive that america alone won the war, this is too arrogant to comprehend.

1000 british bomber acheived operation overlord.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by listerofsmeg
reply to post by Reign02
 


in what way exactly, we were allies and helped with everything but some beleive that america alone won the war, this is too arrogant to comprehend.

1000 british bomber acheived operation overlord.


never said America won the war.... But without America you would have lost the war.





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