Forgetful Mullen's 'unintended consequences'

reply to post by West Coast


I wouldn't believe the European Commission as far as I could p###. However I won't deny that violence has increased under New Labour, but then what do you expect from such a moronic and corrupt government. I'm glad to see the back of them.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

It all depends on what you're definition of a violent crime is. Statistically more people were still murdered in America last year than here in the UK.

www.nationmaster.com...



[edit on 6-8-2010 by kindred]

Originally posted by computerwiz32


It will be a world war 3 if the U.S attacks Iran. China and Russia will support Iran indirectly. This world war 3 will be Iran against the U.S and Israel and Britain. Venezuela and many other countries will help Iran. T

No, Russia and China will not jepordize their relationship with the U.S. and the West over Iran. As I have stated, the U.S. will make behind the door deals with them.

Who exactly are the many other countries that will help Iran???? Please name them.

Iran's army has a lot of ground troops and a decent missile arm but not much else, sorry. Their tanks will be torn up as will their navy and air force. Most of Iran's forces will be statically stuck in place with no communication, intelligence or mobility. We won't be occupying, so the paramilitary aspects won't come into play much. If you think Iran will militarily defeat a U.S. led attack on them , keep smoking that hashish or opium.

Sorry, but if it comes down to it, Iran will be fighting alone against most probably multiple forces that have the edge in tech, battefield intelligence, experience and logistics. No one is going to resupply Iran. You keep believing what you will, but if the U.S. goes after Iran, my monies on them to do the job.

reply to post by kindred


OMG.

Do you even understand the concept of "per capita"?

The raw total means nothing until you use it to compute a percentage of the entire population.

reply to post by centurion1211


The statistics I posted are legitimate, if you wish to ignore them, then that's your prerogative.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by kindred]

Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by West Coast

 

I wouldn't believe the European Commission as far as I could p###.

Ahh yes, this line again. You seem to be fit for a site such as this one. But you fail at following the sites logo. (Deny Ignorance)

However I won't deny that violence has increased under New Labour, but then what do you expect from such a moronic and corrupt government. I'm glad to see the back of them.

So you acknowledge your mistake in your overall naive assessment that you live in a "safer" society. Glad to hear it!

It all depends on what you're definition of a violent crime is. Statistically more people were still murdered in America last year than here in the UK.

Again, I am not talking about Homicides, but rather crime in general, and per every 100,000 residents, it is a fact that the UK has one of the highest crime rates in the world.

I have shown an EU study that supports this, yet you seem to base your beliefs on some irrational mistrust and disbelief. There is a word for this. Its called "denial."

reply to post by West Coast


AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!!!
World War III began in November 4, 1979

Originally posted by bestideayet
Maybe take all of our nukes down to a place and just bury them, put them under lock and key with armed guards or something.

I mean, how many nukes can there possibly be in the world?

Ummm, a lot....

Keep in mind I do not know the legitimacy of this website but is seems pretty accurate as far as numbers are concerned.

Also, keep in mind these are just the nukes that have been declared, I would bet money that most, if not all of the nuclear powers, have nukes that they are keeping secret...

Globally there are now approximately 23,000 nuclear warheads.
(Upated as of October 2009)

Russia 13,000
United States 9,400
France 300
China 240
United Kingdom 185
Israel 80
Pakistan 70-90
India 60-80
North Korea

Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by centurion1211

 

The statistics I posted are legitimate, if you wish to ignore them, then that's your prerogative.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by kindred]

Not saying they aren't legitimate, just correctly pointing out that raw numbers like that do not tell the whole story, or even the real story.

Now that I've explained that to you, I guess everyone in the world knows it.

reply to post by kindred


I am not saying that 100% we will have world war 3. I am saying most likely it will happen. The reason i say this is because Iran has a nuke. Iran is pretty much weak and will use the nukes to have a upper edge. If they are smart they will use it at the start because at the end of the war using the nuke would be pointless. If the U.S attacks Iran I am pretty sure Iran will retaliate back with a nuke. This may result for us nuking them back or using bio warfare to get back at them. When these 2 countries use such stuff. It makes the world get involved. The reason is that these are inhumane attacks. It's like just if you walk by and saw a 2 guys beating each other up. First reaction would be to watch the fight and the second after it's going on too long you start seeing them grabbing chairs or guns or other stuff you most likey if you can would jump in and stop the fight. It's a split of a second decision most likely if you jump int others may follow and assist you on stoping the fight. Yet if you jump in and no one assists you because they have fear they will get shot. Then your on your own and the one one kills the other may as well kill you for jumping into the middle of the fight.

So what I am saying when the U.S and Iran face off against each other. There is other countries that have alot of hatred. I am not saying Iran will win the war. I am just saying that they do have support from other countries indirectly. They will never dare to directly jump into the fight because then it gets them involved.

This think of it this way. You fighting a bully at school. It's just you and the kid duking it out. At first no one will help you. Even your closes friends. Later on if your getting beaten up and your friends see you they may not directly beat up the bully but they may throw a rock or something so the bully will get hurt but won't know who hit him this avoid a direct confrontation with the bully. In this case it's the U.S. The U.S wants to control Iran. Iran is stepping up against them. Yet at the same time they do have friends and will back them up but won't directly attack the U.S and Israel. They will do something in secretive way like they may give Iran nukes or weapons that are advance that the U.S can't pinpoint who gave them the stuff.

I am just saying that I personally think there will be a world war 3 if we attack Iran. This world war 3 won't be upfront like the last world wars. This will be more of a secret world war where no country will directly step up to Israel and U.S due to the lack of military power and many other problems those countries could face. Also do think about the trading and how the U.S plays an important role in others countries economy. This is why the countries will help or assist Iran indirectly.

What your looking for is a direct confrontation from other countries like in world war 2 etc. Couldn't you say this war on terror is really the world war 3 since the whole world are working towards getting rid of terrorist.

Like I said if we do attack Iran. I know they will use the nukes. They won't be storing the nukes for decorations they are building them because they fear the U.S and Israel will attack and they do plan on using those nukes.

Right now the U.S isn't very well much liked around the world with their current wars.
I personally also think the U.S dosen't really want to use military force they would rather have Iran submit to their requests. The problem is that they won't So they really have no choice but to now try and figure out a way where they can attack Iran without making themselves look like the bad guy. This is why they keep saying that there is other options on the table. They want others to know they are willing to talk with Iran about other options rather then military confrontation. They want to seem diplomatics yet when Iran agrees they said ok we will talk once you stop your nuclear program. This again is the U.S trying to stall and not allow them to progress to being able to build a nuke. The U.S isn't stupid and they know they have nukes somewhere and also will have amounts to be able to build their own nukes. This is where they want their program to be slowed down so they can try to find some evidence that will support their idea. If Iran was stupid they would said ok we will shut down our operations and then talk. Then the U.S will have meetings with them and keep talking until they can find any evidence of nukes. Yet they try to appear to Iran that they really want to settling this problem in peaceful way. Yet they are trying to backstab them. Iran knows this and refuses do comply to what they are asking.

So for you to say there isn't a world war 3 possible to come and just wait until it happens then this makes you ignorant. The reason I say this is because your brain washed. You won't care until it happens and when it does happen it's too late to do anything about it and also you will be in a panic because you wouldn't expect such a thing to happen. So you make plans as if world war 3 will never happen. Then out of nowhere it happens you will be in panic thinking what do I do now. Like said it would be ignorant to say well don't say it will happen until it happens. If it does happen then why tell others when it happens. It be too late and you won't have any time to plan on what to do and if you think that when it does happen it won't effect you then your really ignorant. It will effect the world since we all depend on global trade and also all countries depend on each other on a economic sense. So for us using nukes or other weapons and attacking Iran will effect our economy and so will it effect the Iran economy and countries that do heavy trading with these 2 countries. If we attack most likely the prices for goods in america would go up so if some country been buying goods or raw materials from us they will get effected by the price hike. It's a domino effect. Whenever the worlds powers go to war it effects the whole world in one way or another.

Originally posted by kindred
The statistics I posted are legitimate,

And you're certain of this? Explain?

I find it humorous that any and all evidence that states contrary to your belief is either wrong, or illegitimate. Yet when you provide a certain source, it is unquestionably right.

Your biased, and completely unaware of it.

if you wish to ignore them, then that's your prerogative.

You are deflecting away from the debate here. The US population is 310,000,000+. Yet, if we take a closer look at the numbers from the link you provided, we find that the US murder rate is 24th in per capita terms (0.042802 per 1,000 people). Which is remarkably average for a bunch of gun totting cowboys.

www.nationmaster.com...

reply to post by West Coast


Sorry west coast, but the link I provided is a lot more credible than the tabloid sensationalism that you posted. This argument is not about winning browny points, it's simply me stating facts. You're the one denying ignorance, because you deny the fact that you're country is more violent than the UK, when the the statistics I originally posted speaks for itself. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

reply to post by computerwiz32


Iran does not have nukes and there's not an intelligence agency on this Earth that can prove they have them, hence all the lies and propaganda from the west.

Nothing you say has any foundation in truth and is based on nothing more than speculation, conjecture & fantasy.

I'm certainly not brain washed and my feet are firmly on the ground.

reply to post by pavil


No they won't. Where do you get your information? Currently China thinks the U.S is the biggest crook in the world. They are very worried about the U.S dollar and think that their investments in the U.S dollar is worthless or in jeopardy. According to this:
www.voltairenet.org...

China is a Allie for Iran. Yes china has relations with the U.S and so does Russia but these relations are very weak. They don't like the U.S and yes they could care less about Iran. The problem is that they will trade and provide Iran with weapons and technology they need.
I don't understand why you think if china gives indirect support to Iran. That the U.S can just go and say hey we will give you 6 million dollars if you don't give them anything. Yes China will accept it but will then find ways around it to still help Iran out. Like I said China has their own interest and they enjoy to see the U.S squirm. China and Russia don't like the U.S for their current wars. They also never had a strong relationship. I mean we caught china having hackers hacking into our pentagon computers. I mean just hearing about this should tell you that you can't trust China. China will do whatever they want to do. I am just saying they will make money providing help for Iran indirectly. They will continue doing so just to get the U.S a taste of their own medicine.

reply to post by kindred


Wow, so you know many people in every intelligence agency on this Earth??? hmmm please provide me with names and contacts.

I can't believe you think that the CIA will on the news tell everyone what they know. If you know the media and the CIA and all intelligence agency they use the media as a tool to tame people in the public. How do you know for fact there isn't no nukes in Iran??? Did you go there? do you have contacts. I know many people in the military and they do talk. The U.S isn't idiots to accuse Iran of a nuke or possibility of a nuke when there isn't any. The U.S has experts watching the activities threw satellites of all the sights in Iran that are possibly building nukes. Ya there is no proof and the U.S is trying to get it. They can't because Iran is playing there game they know the U.S will spy on them from satellites.

So if you say you know it all and Iran have no nukes and no world war 3 will ever happen.

The prove this to us. If you keep on saying I have zero proof and all my comments are puff of smoke.

I would say ya your brainwash. From your previous comment you told me to stop saying world war 3 will come because it will come when it comes.

This is straight from the governments propaganda they want you to worry about it when it happens. That way your not organized and prepared for such an event. This is a common brain washed mind. Where if a economic crises happens don't prepare for it before it happens prepare for it when it happens. That way you will not find any food and starve while we prepare for such an event.

So please do share your intellagince if you know for a fact that every intelligence agency on this Earth knows for a fact Iran has no nukes and what I said is all false and lies and just puff of smoke.

From your statement I can tell your basing your opinion based on nonesense. No facts just 100% opinion. Then trying to convince everyone that your opinion is 100% fact.

I seriously told you in my comments this is my opinion and from my sources this is what i think. I never said it's 100% proof or a for sure thing.

Yet your comments telling me that I am 100% wrong because your opinion said so and your opinion is 100% fact.

Please do back up your statements. You should backup your statements and comments with facts before bashing on someones comments saying they are false and wrong.

If you have no facts in your hand and proof then why bash on on another's opinion?

The comments I posted above are opinions based off first hand sources. These sources are not 100% a for sure in. I have contacts in the U.S military meaning friends and contacts with pakistani military friends which have friends in Iran military. Theses are in higher positions not the arm forces that carry out the attacks more behind the scene.
I have no Internet sources since this stuff that I told you about never made it to public and will never make it to public these are stuff that won't be told to anyone outside the military.
Like I said take my sources and comments as opinions and not facts. I don't even trust the government to give me facts.

In college in the U.S they teach you and train your mind to make you think CNN, FOX NEWS and all these media outlets are 100% facts and with the U.S government sites and resources they provide you. Yet I know for a fact any of these sources can fabricate some or all of the information given to the public.

Originally posted by kindred

Sorry west coast, but the link I provided is a lot more credible

You provided a 10 year old study. That hardly qualifies as "legitimate". So, you are wrong yet again.

For a better reference, here is a far more relevant one.

en.wikipedia.org...

Far more credible than the junk you attempted to pass off as reputable.

than the tabloid sensationalism that you posted.

As I clearly stated before, it was backed by an EU study. Something you continu to conveniently overlook.

This argument is not about winning browny points, it's simply me stating facts.

While promoting a self bias.

You clearly are not interested in the "facts," as it is you who continually deny them.

The best you can do is muster up a 10 year old homicide data sheet, while trying to pass it off as a "credible" source. You are merely deflecting the initial argument. If the argument is about crime, then Britain is failing pretty hard. Your initial statement of "living in a peaceful society" is a bunch of garbage, which is what I initially took issue with by providing "proven" data that contradicts your ridiculous claim.

To help you understand, I do not question the fact that more people are murdered in the US than in Britain. However, in terms of overall crime, Britain is in fact, in no position to take the moral high ground here. This is a fact, obviously its an inconvenient one for you. But a fact none the less.

You're the one denying ignorance, because you deny the fact that you're country is more violent than the UK

From a homicide standpoint, yes, from an overall crime standpoint, no (2,000 per 100,000 people > 467 per 100,000 people).

when the the statistics I originally posted speaks for itself. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Lets be real here, you don't care about the statistics so long as they dont support your rosey colored view.

The best shield against logic is ignorance. Ignore the facts at your own risk. You've shown a great deal of repugnant illiteracy during this debate. Hopefully not all UK'ers are like this.


[edit on 6-8-2010 by West Coast]

[edit on 6-8-2010 by West Coast]

reply to post by West Coast


Just ignore kindred. He isn't interested in facts. I personally think he loves to push his opinions on others and try to make everyone believe his opinions 100% even if it's wrong.
He should learn to not bash a persons comments without any facts backing up his comments or attacks on that persons comments.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by computerwiz32]

reply to post by princeofpeace


Yes, I hear the attack plans for Trinidad and Tobago, Andorra and Belize are especially intriguing and grandiose in scale.

I mean, where does it stop? When does it stop mattering? Why do we even care anymore? When do people start to see through this whole charade?

reply to post by computerwiz32


Nice observation, you sure teach that kid how its played,
however I dont agree Iran having nuke, I would say they are coming to that, also having help from UK is unlikely, and the war will start from Israel, not USA or Iran. USA will come to "help".

Another scenario is a false flag operation by the black ops on Israel or USA, made to validate "cause of attack" (UK might join in this scenario).

Do you mind visiting my chess game and post your WW3 moves there ? Its pretty lonely there. Check the signature.

reply to post by pavil


Please read my comments again. You don't understand my comments. I never said Iran will win the war. I said they will be helped by other countries.

You want names: China,Russia,Venezuela,Lebenon,Syria,India,Pakistan ( not a strong ally and not dependable),Afghanistan,North Korea.

These countries will provide them with weapons and technology. None will direclty assist Iran. You say no it's impossible they wouldn't help then why are they currently helping them on a economic sense meaning having good trade relations.

Why would these countries come begging to the U.S for deals? The U.S isn't popular in the world and is currently looked upon as a global bully. So why will they help the U.S?

These countries have their own interest and they don't want Iran to be conquered just like Iraq has. The reason is that they don't want the U.S to gain territory control. China and Russia have their own interest and are not doing it in the best of the Iranian people.