It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Bikini-Clad Brit Detained in Dubai Mall

page: 8
3
<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by lasertaglover

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by lasertaglover
 


To all those who say to obey their customs, no tyvm, their sh*t is corrupt and sexist as HELL, if I would even go to that sh*******, there's no GD way I'd respect their laws, do you all not remember 9/11 did they respect our laws or our children's lives? NO!!!!! WHAT????


Do you hate every Japanese person that you meet because of Pearl Harbor? Do you hate every German for WW II? How can you hate every Muslim for 9/11?

Sir, with all due respect, as an Airborne, combat veteran of the US Army sir, I darn well remember 9/11! I gave blood for this country.

I fought so that this nation of immigrants can be free. So that my Irish neighbor can come over and barbecue with me and my Arabic, Chinese, Black, and Hispanic neighbors and enjoy our community together.

You do not have to respect their laws. But when I was deployed to Saudi, we, the US Army, followed their rules, cause that is how it is done when you are someplace that is not your home. You respect your neighbor's rules.

This post is about a city that has a strict moral code, that is hypocritical about some of it's own rules. And it all started with a news report about a bikini!

If you want to debate the points, please do so. But I do believe that your post indicated prejudice towards everyone over there, and if that is the case...well, please carry yourself out of this thread.

I love my country sir, fought for her. I have not ever tolerated so-called Americans that hate an entire group of people out of pure ignorance. Yes, a group of Muslims attacked us, but we MUST respect the rest of them and their beliefs.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Deny Ignorance


First of all it's not SIR it's ma'am or miss or whatever feminine one you want to use hence LDY short for lady, And second they are hideous to their women and downgrading and outright ruthless in their treatment of women, they give them no rights, they own their wives, they are stuck in the middle ages!!!!! I am a pagan and it's the center of my religion to honor both male and female divinity, and I will not like or respect anybody who constantly S**** on the rights of the women!!!! IDGAF. and BTW I also served for America, women have been suppressed and oppressed for way too long...I am not a feminist either, I am an equalist, that's why I defended this country and that's why I despise their point of views, and their ridiculously outdated views on women, if the woman who complained had a brain, she would see she should be thanking this brit instead of putting her down, and causing her problems however, it is said the most dangerous shackles are the ones that one cannot see, personally I think that's the case here, and she is sadly, not very intelligent, because she doesn't see the shackles that horrendous Islamic country has her in, that makes her very very sad and pathetic in my eyes!!!!!

And btw that thing you quoted from the constitution now goes "That all MEN AND WOMEN are created equally, and I will never ever respect any culture that treats their women like slaves/property/and the fall guys of their husbands' inadequecies...as in the women stoned for adultery, hmmmm maybe she wouldn't have to have had an affair if that inadequate husband of hers could satisfy her...." life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" yeah I went there!


Well, Lady...there are a lot of countries in this world that treat their women horribly. Do you hate every African because some of the tribes on that continent that physically scar their women, on top of enslaving them?

You are entitled to your opinion 100%. You can hate them and anyone else all you want. But when you generalize about an entire group of people, than you are being ignorant.

I thank you for your service to our country. I mean that. Our wonderful country that so many have given their lives for, that was built upon ideals like Freedom. You are entitled to free speech, but you are not entitled to Hate Speech.

When you hate, like the terrorists hated us (NOT all Muslims, but terrorists), you become like them. Blinded by ignorance.




posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
Guess the government better shut down those bars in the hotels then.

Can't have it both ways.


They can have it both ways; and they do.

Governmental hypocrisy is not just the preserve of Middle Eastern countries, though.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:37 PM
link   
reply to post by ldyserenity
 



Do you have any idea how difficult it is to change a culture? Especially an ancient devoted god fearing culture?

I have been following Mavis Leno for about 12 years. Do you know who that is?

Do you realize that even young men in these countries have no rights? You might have a young progressive husband who supports his wife in freedom.

However - the Patriarch of the family and other male members will force him to keep his wife in line. He has no more "real" freedom then his wife does.

I am a Feminist - - and am horrified by the abuse and lack of Freedom in these countries - - for both men and women.

But ranting about it - and being hateful - is not going to help them. Education and action will help them. There are now Women's Rights groups in many of these countries now because of Mavis Leno.

----------------------------------------------------------

Now - my position on this thread is: within the modern structures built to entice tourists - - - tourists (within reason) should not be harassed.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by lasertaglover

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by lasertaglover

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by lasertaglover
 



Well, Lady...there are a lot of countries in this world that treat their women horribly. Do you hate every African because some of the tribes on that continent that physically scar their women, on top of enslaving them?

Yes I would hate those groups that do that to their women...just the same or even if in some crazy tribe they did this to men white/black/orange/ purple, I would hate that specific group.

not their race, because there are those in that place that are christian jewish, etc.... it's not about the race it's about those who want to rule through tyranny by oppressing any group.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by ldyserenity]



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Annee
Guess the government better shut down those bars in the hotels then.

Can't have it both ways.


They can have it both ways; and they do.

Governmental hypocrisy is not just the preserve of Middle Eastern countries, though.


Follow the money.

If they start losing tourist money - - - these personal attacks on tourists will end. Business is business.

I'm only talking about facilities built primarily to entice tourists. Not out on the streets.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by West Coast
Perhaps, but you took it to the illogical extreme. I personally am fine with nudity up to the chest. We also have nude beach resorts also if you are feeling extra frisky.


No, I took it to the logical extreme.
It could only possibly be construed as ''illogical'' if someone is coming from the starting point that the standard of normality is defined by the attitude of the West. There lies the problem.

If you look objectively at the issue of freedom in how you dress, then you'll see that the logical starting point is that nudity is totally permissible.
There can be nothing more freer than the ability to go wherever you like, in your most natural form ( butt-naked ).

If anything, the idea in the West, Middle East and elsewhere, that some parts of the body are banned from being exposed in public, is the illogical view.

We don't have freedom in how we dress in the West.


Originally posted by West Coast
Our culture is based on freedom of expression. Our culture is one of tolerance. Their culture is one based upon religious ideology. Why should anyone have to subject themselves to anothers morals?


I may not have made myself clear, but I'm specifically discussing the issue of clothing between cultures, not the culture as a whole.

Which is why I commented on your defence of our culture for being ''free'' in terms of clothing, when we have the same restrictions as the Middle East in terms of having to, by law, cover up certain parts of our body.


But, as you bring up the topic of culture and morality, you say:

''Why should anyone have to subject themselves to anothers morals?''

Well, we do that all the time, don't we ?
You're not going to get very far if you don't let yourself be subjected to your society's moral code.

In the Middle East, they have a set of morals and laws that the citizens of each country are subject to.
In the West, we have a set of morals and laws that the citizens of each country are subject to.

What's the difference ?


Originally posted by West Coast
In this case, the tolerance approach the west has, is far superior than the primitive theocratic mindset of the mid east. I prefer the secular approach.


So, in other words, you're intolerant of the theocratic approach.



Originally posted by West Coast
Now you are just being anal retentive.


No, just pointing out the flaw in your assertion that we are ''free'' in rlation to what clothes you can ( or cannot ) wear.



[edit on 6-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 04:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Annee
Follow the money.

If they start losing tourist money - - - these personal attacks on tourists will end. Business is business.

I'm only talking about facilities built primarily to entice tourists. Not out on the streets.


I don't think they'll lose any tourist money.
The place has shedloads of Western tourists, of whom probably 99% are more than happy to go there and respect the local culture, customs and rules.

The 1% that don't respect the laws of the country that they are a guest in ( like this silly British girl ), I suppose aren't exactly the sort of people that the authorities want over there anyway.

There's no ''personal attacks'' on any tourists. The tourists are the ones in the wrong.

If a foreign tourist visited the USA, then openly and intentionally flouted American law, would you think the tourist was ''attacked'' when apprehended by authorities ? Of course not.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 04:43 PM
link   
Dubai is certainly not like Saudi Arabia. It does, in fact, have a very relaxed approach to other cultures, and is seen within the Middle East as being the most open society, where people of all cultures are welcomed.

There are no religious police, like in Saudi, and on the whole, a lot of things that would seem to be at odds with the muslim religion are tolerated, such as alcohol consumption.

Dubai has very little oil, and so the vision of the leader is to create a destination that people will come to, for holidays and more importantly for business. Dubai is the hub of the Middle East, and will become more so over the coming years.

Other Emirates, that make up the United Arab Emirates, have a stricter approach. Sharjah, for example (which operates under Sharia Law, which Dubai does not), is far stricter. Alcohol is not permitted in this emirate at all. All hotels are "dry". Sharjah is so strict, that indian men are no longer allowed to wear their sarong type wrap-arounds. They face arrest if they dare to do so!

Abu Dhabi, which has massive oil wealth, is also fairly relaxed, but not as far as Dubai. They are also seeking to attrcat tourists, with massive development in projects such as Yas Island, and Saadiyat Island, where they are busy building Guggenheim and Louvre museums.

And just to add, people don't get stoned to death here - that's over the water in Iran. They do have the death sentence here, and it is invoked periodically, although they have automatic appeals procedures all down the line.

The UAE is not like Iran or Saudi - they are more foreward thinking than that. And they do have very good ties with the USA, which is where they buy their military hardware from. Last year they were the worl's most prolific buyer of arms, and they are part of the Middle East missile defence shield that is being put into place.

A lot of what is written in the press is true to some extent, but especially since the onset of the financial crisis, it has become popular to hammer Dubai, a lot of which has been unnecessary.

And as regards Malls etc being built to attract tourists - yes, perhaps, but you also have to know that shopping is the national sport in this country, as is wandering around the malls chatting to your friends on your Blackberry and just being "seen" there. And i would guess that the majority of tourists who come here are not from the "West", but rather from other Gulf countries, no doubt they come here also, because Dubai is more relaxed than home.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 04:53 PM
link   
reply to post by BlueOrb
 


Thank you BlueOrb.

Sometimes I just try to keep conversation going until someone with real knowledge like you shows up.

I do read a lot - but am never sure of the slant. Should I say I read about Dubai because of Tiger Woods?

I never mind being wrong


[edit on 6-8-2010 by Annee]



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 04:59 PM
link   
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Thank you. That is the exact distinction that I am talking about. Hate the group that does the atrocity, not the entire race.

I hate the groups that have targeted America. Just as I am sure the countries that hate us believe that we have attacked them.

Personally, IMO, I belive that of the human race as a whole, that women are the one group that it is subjugated to more horrific injustices than any one ethnic group around the world, including our own country.

I honestly can't stand the terrorists that did 9/11 just about the same as I hate the redneck mentality in some parts of the US that think it is still ok to beat a woman. Or not give her an equal chance at a job. And not just because she is a woman, but because of her own acheivements does she deserve the same chance at life.

But back to the thread, it is still mind boggling to me the scope of the double standard that is Dubai.

Even though I fully believe that the lady in question should have the right to wear what she was wearing in any culture, it is their culture not to do that. I do not like it one bit myself, but the Brit was wrong.

The fantastic female NCO's and Officer's that I had the honor of serving with in Saudi Arabia, they hated having to wear black robes when traveling anywhere in-country. They were some very tough, proud women that I served with, but they wore what they had to wear, and walked behind me when they had to, because we had to respect their culture. We were in their country.

This lady was wrong. But the double standard of Dubai is just really hard for me to understand. The idea of companies that confiscate the passports of the women that they 'employ' is savage.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlueOrb

And as regards Malls etc being built to attract tourists - yes, perhaps, but you also have to know that shopping is the national sport in this country, as is wandering around the malls chatting to your friends on your Blackberry and just being "seen" there. And i would guess that the majority of tourists who come here are not from the "West", but rather from other Gulf countries, no doubt they come here also, because Dubai is more relaxed than home.


My hobby is culture/social anthropology. (don't know how many are interested in what people used for toilets - or hair styles - but I am)

I am always curious how teenagers manage in some of these countries. It must be difficult.

Sounds like Malls are the place the world 'round.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by lasertaglover
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


The idea of companies that confiscate the passports of the women that they 'employ' is savage.



A lot of companies keep hold of EVERY passport of those they employ. Especially the "enslaved" labourers. I just changed jobs, from working with a European company, to working wit a "local" company, staffed and owned largely by arabs, but not Emiratis. They suggested they would be hanging onto may passport "because we have to, for the Ministry of Labour inspections". Total lie, as it's actually ILLEGAL in the UAE to keep hold of employees passports.

I said to them "I'm British. We don't put up with things like that. So you WON'T be holding onto my passport...." "But we have to" they said. "No" said I. So i retain my passport, and always shall. As someone corectly said, you hold the passport, you control the person, and that's what it's all about most of the time, as without a passport you cannot leave the country. In fact, without a passport here, there's a lot you can't do. For example, you need your passport to get a cable TV connection. Or to purchase a prepaid SIM card for your mobile phone. You need 2 passport photos to do all sorts of other things. It is common practice to have a stock of around 20 passport photos here, because you just know you will need them. This country has more photos of me than my MOTHER does. And i really do mean that........


[edit on 6-8-2010 by BlueOrb]



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:18 PM
link   
What? no pictures of this most heinious crime?...Im afraid Ill need to see the evidence that this young lady was in fact wearing a bikini before I can comment further...please submit the corroborating evidence..thank you



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by BlueOrb

I said to them "I'm British. We don't put up with things like that. So you WON'T be holding onto my passport...." "But we have to" they said. "No" said I. So i retain my passport, and always shall. As someone corectly said, you hold the passport, you control the person, and that's what it's all about most of the time, as without a passport you cannot leave the country. In fact, without a passport here, there's a lot you can't do. For example, you need your passport to get a cable TV connection. Or to purchase a prepaid SIM card for your mobile phone. You need 2 passport photos to do all sorts of other things. It is common practice to have a stock of around 20 passport photos here, because you just know you will need them. This country has more photos of me than my MOTHER does. And i really do mean that........



Fascinating. And a bit frightening.

I'm in SW Arizona. Nothing like Dubai - of course - but at 64+ I've seen many changes in this country.

2 years ago I could drive to California freely. Now I have to go through 4 checkpoints with armed guards and dogs. The agents used to be some what friendly - - - not anymore.

How long before we have to carry our passports all the time?



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:25 PM
link   
reply to post by Shadowfoot
 


This article by the Sun came out the day after this thread was made and was provided by BlueOrb a few pages ago:

www.thesun.co.uk...



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:44 PM
link   
reply to post by BlueOrb
 


That is crazy that they tried to keep your passport. People are helpless without it, slaves.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:56 PM
link   
reply to post by lasertaglover
 


But she did not strip down until a person approached her and criticized her dress, and it was a public tourist attraction destination/ whatever, therefore the woman who approached her was wrong not the brit in my eyes...That's jmo, but I can tell you I am a very strongwilled woman, and thankfully was not sent out to that place even though I could have been as I started my army career at the beginning of the last iranian conflict...I would have ended up in a prison no doubt because I would not have obeyed their rules I am very headstrong so I understand what the British woman was doing, and where it came from. I guess not everyone can... however the walking behind and to the right wouldn't have been a problem as I was a peon not a superior but you can bet if I was a superior I would have said to hell with that as well... and who in their frkking right minds can walk around the DESERT in full BLACK GARB!!!! No way am I overheating and getting heatstroke because of their dumb beleifs!!!! WTH???? I am one who can get very very ill if overesposure to heat or cold!!!! No way would I put my health at risk for their idiotic ideals no way!!!!! Sorry, but they would have to hope to kill me because it'd be over my cold dead body I would boil in desert heat for people who don't even want us there while we're trying to liberate THEM!!!!



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 06:13 PM
link   
But it is ok for the Muslim community to force their dress codes on others.
In a country that has been attacked cover faces must be accepted.
Kinda is a bit onesided



posted on Aug, 7 2010 @ 12:05 AM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


Are you going to reply to my post, where I informed you why a Dubai shopping centre shouldn't be kowtowing to foreign customers ?

Or are you just going to avoid my ''unanswerable'' points ?



posted on Aug, 7 2010 @ 12:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by ldyserenity
But she did not strip down until a person approached her and criticized her dress, and it was a public tourist attraction destination/ whatever, therefore the woman who approached her was wrong not the brit in my eyes


Bollocks.

The Emirati lady was clearly appalled by the British slag's clothing ( and quite rightly so ).

Upon being challenged, this British slag decided to arrogantly disrespect the laws and rules that she'd tacitly agreed to upon visiting Dubai, and bottled it, by shamefully attempting to draw attention to herself.

There's no ''public tourist/attraction/destination'' issue involved.

Use your brain, mate.

The ''Tower of London'', ''Madame Tussauds'', ''Buckingham Palace'' etc. are all public tourist destinations in London...
Oh hang on a minute, should we cater for tourists' ideas of laws from across the world, when they visit a heavily marketed tourist attraction ?
Of course we don't.

Yes, let's make sure that all these tourist attractions are subject to the laws of the country from wherever the visitor came from.


Or maybe, just maybe, the laws, cultures and customs of a country can be respected by tourists and visitors.

It's surely not a lot to ask and respect, is it ?

[edit on 7-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in

join