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A question for those who support gay marriage

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posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


Rome is still on my map.

So is Britain.

All nations rise and fall, "moral degradation" has little to do with it.

There will come a time, yes, in this century, when the United States is no longer the sole superpower, or even the top dog. We will not vanish, just lessen in strength. I'm not too worried about it.


Moral degradtion has everything to do with it. Historians agree with me.It has in fact been argued that rome could have been saved if the citizens did not behave and act like animals with sexual perversities and 'games'(football? baseball?) no we will be gone within 20 years. we will no longer exist. we may be a new nation but we will never be what we once were. we will be so far removed of what we are now then italy is to the roman empire.




posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


It's not gay to appreciate the good looks of a handsome fellow.

But to play devil's advocate. You say people are not born gay? Well then, when you said "well, that's weird, I found that man vaguely attractive" did you also have to say "No, I choose not to be attracted to this man" or were you just with no innate desire to pursue?



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by Nofoolishness

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


Rome is still on my map.

So is Britain.

All nations rise and fall, "moral degradation" has little to do with it.

There will come a time, yes, in this century, when the United States is no longer the sole superpower, or even the top dog. We will not vanish, just lessen in strength. I'm not too worried about it.


Moral degradtion has everything to do with it. Historians agree with me.It has in fact been argued that rome could have been saved if the citizens did not behave and act like animals with sexual perversities and 'games'(football? baseball?) no we will be gone within 20 years. we will no longer exist. we may be a new nation but we will never be what we once were. we will be so far removed of what we are now then italy is to the roman empire.


Historians do not agree with you. The generally accepted historical reason for Romes fall, and you may ask any reputable historian, was the over-expansion of the empire, combined with the many demanded social services of the nation (some were lavish entertainment, like you state, but most were basic necessities that were unheard of at that time, you know, like baths, clean water, etc) that burdened the treasury to it's breaking point and collapsed the empire.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


It's not gay to appreciate the good looks of a handsome fellow.

But to play devil's advocate. You say people are not born gay? Well then, when you said "well, that's weird, I found that man vaguely attractive" did you also have to say "No, I choose not to be attracted to this man" or were you just with no innate desire to pursue?



Honesty? you want honesty? to tell you the truth i went through a little period of time freaking out that i was gay(i was 16 at the time).i was a very confused man for a time. i thought "im gay....straight people dont find the same sex attractive". It got so bad that i seriously just tried to tell myself "YOUR GAY JUST GET OVER IT". But the whole problem with that was i never lost my attraction to woman.

I mean i was never 'attracted' to any other men until 16. I mean...yeah sure i did some experimenting. But after each and every 'experiment' with that guy i just felt horrible.......like sick to my stomache. so i was able to logically conclude....no i was not gay.


After a while i started wondering if i was gay again. About this time i was seriously thinking....okay somethings not normal. So my mom took me to a psychiatrist. I was diagnosed with OCD. Not the germ kind. But obsessive thoughts. I was having obsessive thoughts of being gay constantly.


I can reasonably say im comfortable in my sexuality now. although a tiny sliver remains. that 1% i was telling you about.

Maybe that little crazy house stent i went through has effected my views on gay marriage?



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by Nofoolishness

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


Rome is still on my map.

So is Britain.

All nations rise and fall, "moral degradation" has little to do with it.

There will come a time, yes, in this century, when the United States is no longer the sole superpower, or even the top dog. We will not vanish, just lessen in strength. I'm not too worried about it.


Moral degradtion has everything to do with it. Historians agree with me.It has in fact been argued that rome could have been saved if the citizens did not behave and act like animals with sexual perversities and 'games'(football? baseball?) no we will be gone within 20 years. we will no longer exist. we may be a new nation but we will never be what we once were. we will be so far removed of what we are now then italy is to the roman empire.


Historians do not agree with you. The generally accepted historical reason for Romes fall, and you may ask any reputable historian, was the over-expansion of the empire, combined with the many demanded social services of the nation (some were lavish entertainment, like you state, but most were basic necessities that were unheard of at that time, you know, like baths, clean water, etc) that burdened the treasury to it's breaking point and collapsed the empire.



What you state is true. But you cant deny moral degradation is a SYMPTOM of a empire/nation in decline.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


Just sounds like you are bisexual.

But if you are truly comfortable with who you are now, that is what is important.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


Well there are three stages of a civilization. The last is decadence. The thing about morality though is it's not a clear black and white. Everybody has their own moral code, with some general rules set in common with most (but not all.)

Thing is, you can cry "oh our society is falling into moral decay" but that chicken little story has been spouted out since even before we were in dugouts with buckles on our hats.

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." - Oscar Wilde



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


Just sounds like you are bisexual.

But if you are truly comfortable with who you are now, that is what is important.


i can assure you i thought of that as well. but i logically thought it out. The thought of being with a man while not repulsive....is certainly unappealing to say the least. if i was ever propositioned i would turn them down.

Like i said before i experimented in my youth......at least 3 times. after each time i felt nasty....sick to my stomach. the last time broke the camels back....i swore o myself i would never do anything as sickening again. and i have not.

Sure i can look at a guy and think "he's hot" but not in the i wanna have sex way.i will say this...i have never gotten a erection from a gay. so that must mean something!



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Nofoolishness
 


Well there are three stages of a civilization. The last is decadence. The thing about morality though is it's not a clear black and white. Everybody has their own moral code, with some general rules set in common with most (but not all.)

Thing is, you can cry "oh our society is falling into moral decay" but that chicken little story has been spouted out since even before we were in dugouts with buckles on our hats.

"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." - Oscar Wilde


I know.....but we are certainly in the decadence stage. or as oscar wilde said....we have been that way for a long time. its only getting worse though. america is in decline....it ws good while it lasted. it could be argued we are doing so bad because or society is decadent.

I guess it is true though...no multicultural nation has ever survived. when we rebuild this nation into a shadow of its former self....lets remember that.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by WolfofWar
 


I don't think marriage, until actually placed into the constitution is a constitutional matter..

As such, neither homo or heterosexuals are guaranteed protection.


I don't think it was right for the judge to rule it unconstitutional.. nor would it be correct to rule it constitutional.

It's not a constitutional issue, and I very highly doubt that it will be seen by the supreme court..

Just my take.

And for my own personal views.. just let the gays marry. Why is it such an issue?

My dad is against it, and tries to justify the ban on gay marriage with "oohhh the polygamists will marry too!!" non-sense.

In reallity he just doesn't like gay people because he shut out ANY chance to know them throughout his life, and did so based soley on religion.

And he just can't admit he doesn't like gay people.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by WolfofWar
 


I don't think marriage, until actually place] into the constitution is a constitutional matter..

As such, neither homo or heterosexuals are guaranteed protection.


I don't think it was right for the judge to rule it unconstitutional.. nor would it be correct to rule it constitutional.

It's not a constitutional issue, and I very highly doubt that it will be seen by the supreme court..


You would be incorrect. The US Constitution does not need to state something for it to be a constitutional matter. Marriage falls under this:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States

and

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

In the case of Prop 8, it was prohibiting the equal privilege of it's states citizens and depriving life, liberty and property without proper due process. Congress (State or Federal) may make no law abridging ones rights in such a way, or that is the argument. That's why gay marriage is a constitutional issue to begin with, why it was correct for this to be judged by the appeals court as a constitutional issue, and why it will eventually be decided in the Supreme Court.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 04:15 AM
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Love and Politics, dangerous waters


Marriage should be based on Love, nothing else. There shouldn't be any legal discussion about it. Two people love each other, they get married if they like, simple
And for the other stuff, the multiple wife/husband thing, hey, each to their own right, if they all get along like a big happy family, good for them



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 04:15 AM
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Love and Politics, dangerous waters


Marriage should be based on Love, nothing else. There shouldn't be any legal discussion about it. Two people love each other, they get married if they like, simple
And for the other stuff, the multiple wife/husband thing, hey, each to their own right, if they all get along like a big happy family, good for them



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by WolfofWar
 


Though I usually read through an entire thread before I post, I havent here because my feelings on the matter are very cut-and-dry.

Although I do not personally agree with any of the three, that being polygamy, bigamy, and/or homosexuality, What business is it of mine, yours, the governments, or anyone else's to dictate morality to someone else? Answer? None. Each unto their own, I say. If all parties involved are consenting adults, who cares?



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:57 AM
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this is my first post, so be easy on my please.

In my humble opinion, marriage is an outdated concept. It was, i think, originally a way for men to claim possession of women. purchased from the girls father with livestock. i mean girl, most marriages even up to as recently as the 50s in America were between men in their mid to late 20s and girls of about 13. Refer to Jerry Lewis and his 13 year old cousin.

Polygamy in many cultures is a sign of wealth and status. In others, it solidifies the work force needed for farming and hunting. Normally the last example is a woman with multiple husbands.

Only in modern culture has the word love been connected with marriage, for most marriages were arranged with the parties involved meeting on their wedding day. Some arranged before one or both parties were even born, for the purpose of consolidated land and wealth.

Hell, the divorce rate in America is just over 60% in the first five years. Marriage is little more than a joke. If homosexuals want to join the laugh riot, feel free but be warned this type of comedy hurts.

Sex with animals is wrong on all points, don't do it. I would make sweet, sweet love to a marijuana plant, maybe even marry it, but that's my problem.

About America being the land of the free, it's complete bull. The average american breaks about 10 laws a day, mostly jaywalking. The only time we're free is when we die, and even then your probably breaking some stupid law. The only reason America will fall is most of our military is not in America, that and we owe China a butt ton of money. Clever Chinese are using an economic invasion.

I am tired of typing now.

Later,
Azrael



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
It's not gay to appreciate the good looks of a handsome fellow.


It's more like envy than attraction. That's how men are wired. We gauge ourselves against other men. "Damn, I wish I looked like Brad Pitt." I just used him as an example. He seems to be the alpha male version today. Pathetic as that is. Will Smith seems more like a man to me. Or Sam Jackson. I wish I could be that cool.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


Gay marriage is great if people want that.

You do not take drugs or die.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 06:35 AM
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Hey All,

Marriage is a union between two people. It doesn't matter what sex they are.

I dislike people using the "domino theory" to justify their own insecurities.

Are we living in 2010 or 1810?

Cheers
Shane



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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Amazing... With all the serious problems that are facing the u.s... People are arguing over trivial matters.. In regard to marriage of homosexuals so damn what.. If two people are happy together and truly love each other they should be together its nobody elses damn business. Same for polygamy it works for some people again so what its not for the state / religous zealots / busybodies to dictate their narrowminded... primitive.. intolerant views upon everyone around them.. But NNNOOOO all the idiots have to force their will upon everyone and waste time arguing over pointless matters that dont mean a damn thing.. instead of working on solving the serious problems facing your country.. Tbh you dont have to worry about a foreign invasion.. Your country will tear itself apart due to your fighting each other over nothing..



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by Expat888
Amazing... With all the serious problems that are facing the u.s... People are arguing over trivial matters..


That's the key though dude. Let's argue who can marry. Much better than arguing why the economy sucks. Or why money is going to a war that people don't want.







 
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