It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

God Doesn't Have a Religion

page: 39
74
<< 36  37  38    40  41  42 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:41 AM
link   
reply to post by Mary Rose
 


Thank you Mary Rose.

I do believe all is energy and it is energy thought that creates the illusion we live.

Is it a "living energy" or a "manufactured energy"? (I suppose that could have its own thread).

Is there a "living" energy/consciousness/intelligence? The Creator of All that Is? A Creator of creators? How far removed from the Creator are we?

LOL - try explaining to skeptics that Predictions - viewing the Future - is not set in stone. That the Future has multiple outcomes. That one can change the outcome by changing them self. Although I do believe some things are un-changeable.




posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 11:55 AM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


Fate always seems inevitable after it happens, but we have the beauty of choice and consioussness before it does.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 02:18 PM
link   
reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



Hello Oliveoil

Hi


My point to you was even if Annee explained to you certain things she thinks is not 'truth' within the Bible...her idea is going to be based on 'belief' and 'personal reasoning'....so it wont be 'proof of a lie'
.
How can truth be based on a "belief"? perhaps maybe "personal reasoning" can lead us to the idea that a certain belief be true however, personal resoning must be based on truth itself. She had said that the Bible is not truth. What is her personal reasoning behind this? and does her personal reasoning contain truth?



Just as if someone asked you to offer truths within the Bible...you could give examples or claim the whole thing is truth...but this is not proof, it is your personal 'belief' and Im sure you have personal 'reasons' to back your belief.

Personal reasons to back up a belief doesnt always mean that the origin of the belief is of truth.
Truths must be backed by truthful personal reasoning.
Take for instance this statement..The carpet is orange in color. By truthful reasoning we can conclude that the carpet in comparison is not yellow, not blue, not green, not red, it must be orange.But what is orange? The truth behind the color orange is that orange is not orange at all. Orange is the mixture of red and yellow. Though the laws of color we find out that the color orange is actually two colors mixed together to produce the color. This is truth, not a belief. Its a "belief" that the color orange looks good on me.
The bible is filled with truth and a careful examination of certain laws like the laws of nature,man,spirit concede to the truth in which the bible was written. If one does not know these laws in which govern the universe and humanity one can only believe, and as we have learned belief is not always based on a truth.


Surely you understand that when someone makes a claim of not accepting the Bible as truth...even if they say they believe there are lies within the Bible...this is not proof of anything, it is a belief.And this forum does support discussions on 'belief' for it is a forum also for 'faith'.

Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Belief and faith are two different concepts.A truth must first be established in order to have faith.The truth strengthens the faith.Without truth, faith is dead in the water.


I can not offer you proof...nor can anyone else, nor can you. What ever we offer as our thoughts and beliefs...is opinion/faith ect.
you are wrong.Through natural and divine law,(as with the laws of color)We can reason what truth is.What makes the bible so unique is that its filled with it.


This makes no one ignorant to the Bible on either side...I wish you were up for discussions sake more often then telling people its black and white and they are ignorant to the Bible if they dont accept it.
For anyone that lives there life unaware of the laws of nature is pretty much lost.The bible concurs. I wish someone here would actually concider this.Im open for discussion on truth 100 percent



I offered you what I 'believe' to be lies in the Bible...but I dont claim those things as a truth. I can give reasons for why I feel those things are lies...but again, its not proof. I can admit that my 'beliefs and ideas' are my personal understandings after studying the Bible...and if you want to claim your beliefs as facts that is fine, but its still your belief and nothing more to others.

Your beliefs are just that.... beliefs. They are not truths. How can you hold dearly as to something which is not true?.You are kidding yourself!!.


Im not sure why you get so frustrated with people when they state their beliefs about the Bible...when your thoughts about the Bible are also nothing more then beliefs/faith.

Your distinction between faith and belief seem to be a bit blurred. beliefs are not based on truth.




This forum is not only about Theology...and there is no fact that the Bible is truth, so this forum should not be limited to only accepting the Bible as truth. It is also about faith....and some people place faith in the idea that men lie and men can write things with much distortion based on ego and based on limited knowledge.
This forum is about Religion,Faith and Theology.

theology- n. , pl. , -gies . The study of the nature of God and religious truth;
Faith -is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
Religion-a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to ...
Beleif-something believed; an opinion.
And we all know what opinions are like...we all have one.


I would never call anyone ignorant because they dont accept something that cant be proven. I know the Bible very well....you make assumptions that sense people dont accept the Bible as a truth (even though they may find some truths of spiritual wisdom within it)....they are ignorant to the Bible.
But the bible can be proven. You may know what the bible says however, you are unable to make the connection between truth,belief,faith and laws that govern the universe, least alone human nature and divine nature. You are caught up in your own views of how things should be, you are clueless as to what truth is.


You also make the assumption that people know nothing about God or the nature of God if they dont follow what the Bible says about God.
What the Bible says about God concurs as to what human nature is,what divine nature is and the natural an spiritual laws that govern.These are truths that most can not make a connection with. I suppose blind faith is good to



I BELIEVE/have FAITH in the idea that no Earthly object made by the hands of man is the means that God intended for man to learn about God. I think Thee made a way for us to know Thee through something that is not made by man, something that can not rust nor be destroyed, something that does not rely on man to have to place faith in what other men tell them....which is all the life in the Universe, all the cycles, orders, and workings of life itself. Even my own belief...is not something I claim as truth, such as you choose to do.


Your distinction between that of which is matter and that of which is spirit is fuzzy. Men are composed of both.The truth is is that God is a spirit and reveals himself two ways, Though nature and though man.



Im not trying to make conflict or cause hard feelings or cause any bad vibes here...Im just discussing, which I hope you are able to do as well.


If anyone knows me on these boards it would be you.Im willing to discuss truth not belief. Fact as it pertains to law in relation to the bible. Are you willing to discuss that?


I think some are not willing to offer you their explanations because they know you wont discuss things....you try to state things as facts that you can not offer proof for.

Inorder for me to discuss anything concerning the bible, we must first establish what truth is as it pertains to mans nature, Gods nature, and the laws which govern the universe then we can discuss the truths in relation to the bible.


Can you back up your claims that the Bible is truth?

of course I can.First lets establish what truth is. Wouldnt that be the most logical starting point?



[edit on 25-8-2010 by oliveoil]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 09:17 PM
link   
reply to post by oliveoil
 


To seriously state something as a 'truth' to someone else...you need evidence and proof.

Therefor, if you find that the Bible in your opinion holds 'truth', this is a opinion upon personal reasoning, your belief, in which you decided to place faith in.

Mankind has agreed upon names for identifying colors. With our eyes we can see the differences in colors...upon what man has agreed to identify the differences of the colors and label them with a word. We can see the colors, we know there are differences in them through observation with our eyes. Things we can see, hear, touch, feel...allow us to have evidence, proof...that they exists and are not made up or imaginary.

Who is anyone to say to another person that Hindu texts are not truth...or that the Quran is not truth? Who has proof for the rest of mankind that either is true of false? Does a person not use their personal reasoning to determine where to place their faith in things they cant prove>

Belief and faith are connected. Neither of them is a truth that can be proven. Only to a individual, may a person claim their belief is a truth for them.

What is truth? Dont you need evidence to prove to another that something is truth?

I can prove that we need food and water to survive. I can prove that planets need soil and water and the Sun to survive. These things are observable....they can be proven...they are truths.

Im Ok with not claiming I know a truth about Gods way or workings...I am OK with stating that my conclusions, are beliefs, and this is why I place faith in what I have reasoned with.

Im OK with going before the creator and saying I DONT KNOW the things I can not prove to another person and that all I can do is use my reasoning to understand things to the best of my ability. Remaining humble and honest before Thee is important to me....more so then claiming I KNOW a truth about Thee. Thee knows my reasons for not placing faith in mankind to offer me truth about the mysteries of God and creation.

As deep as my beliefs are...I dont claim them as truths to others.

Can you prove to me the bible is truth, and that its much more then just your opinion/belief that its truth?

Just like when I offered you things in the Bible I think are 'lies'....I stated them as 'my belief/opinion' and never claimed to you it was a truth. I can share my reasoning's for my 'belief' but its still not a truth to other people and it shouldnt be.

Can you not admit to others that your idea of thinking that the Bible is 'truth' is just your personal belief/opinion, so much so that you place faith in the Book as the word of God? What is wrong with stating that this is your opinion, that you take it as a truth?

Edit to add...I have a feeling you and I are on another merry go round with eachother...I mean no will to argue, Im just conversing with you, none of its personal. I just have issues with the idea that someone can claim a truth to another person, but not admit this is really only their opinion that it is truth.

My best to you
LV

[edit on 25-8-2010 by LeoVirgo]



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 09:53 PM
link   
reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


As deep as my beliefs are...I dont claim them as truths to others.

Can you prove to me the bible is truth, and that its much more then just your opinion/belief that its truth?

The bible was written soon enough after the death of Jesus Christ that the people writing the bible and the people speaking from the bible were eye witness to the events.

Do you believe the Civil War happened?
How do you believe that?
How do you know it happened?
How do you put faith that it occured?

Did YOU SEE the Civil War?
Did YOU HEAR the Civil War?
Did YOU FEEL the Civil War?
Did YOU TASTE the Civil war?
Did YOU SMELL the Civil War?

None of your senses ever experienced the Civil War, yet YOU believe, think and know it happened.

Same with the Bible, contains eye witness accounts of the events.



posted on Aug, 25 2010 @ 10:08 PM
link   
reply to post by slugger9787
 


We find evidence that there was a civil war...there are many fields still full of proof that the war occurred. I dont believe all stories of the civil war, for each side of the war had personal agendas to spread on and tell about.

All it takes is for a few people to claim there was thousands of witnesses, write this down...for it to be claimed as a truth. I do not know that there were thousands of witnesses. I believe that people did witness a man that taught things that seemed new to the main stream beliefs of that day...but I dont know for sure that is what happened.

I think there is good evidence that the Bible holds truth about the history of mankind...about the ways of the cultures back then. But like many things in history, there are many sides to a story, and personal agendas are passed on through telling the story.

Its the parts about it being a word of God that I dont claim to know as a truth. That would only be a belief of mine, if I did make such a claim. Just as though my belief is that its not the word of God.

Like another poster said, I 'believe' there are truths in the Bible...but the Bible is not a truth, in its fullness of itself. There is no way for anyone to know for sure that God had anything to do with the Bible being written. Im sure some of the wars and events did happen in the Bible...but I dont claim that God was connected to them in any way.

I dont claim that I KNOW supernatural events occurred. How could I make such a claim? If I placed belief in it that those things happened, I would confess it as a belief.

Do I know that all the stories of the civil war are truth...no, I dont.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 07:11 PM
link   
THE RELIGION OF SATAN
return evil for evil.
return evil for good.

THE RELIGION OF MANKIND
return good for good
return evil for evil

THE RELIGION OF GOD
return good for good
return good for evil



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 09:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by slugger9787
THE RELIGION OF SATAN
return evil for evil.
return evil for good.

THE RELIGION OF MANKIND
return good for good
return evil for evil

THE RELIGION OF GOD
return good for good
return good for evil



Theres a very wise statement in the Talmud that says "those who show kindness to the wicked are cruel to the righteous"

Keep in mind that every wicked person has harmed someone. What about that person he harmed? What justice is there in returning good for evil?

Have you ever heard of the concept "karma". In the bible this idea is called 'measure for measure'. Its natural law of cause and effect. You cause evil, and evil will come back to you. So if we establish a JUST legal system, we WILL and must penalize evil doers. Otherwise, its anarchy. Evil people will go about doing evil things, affecting others in evil ways. Pure choas.

Thats a completely illogical and unfortunately christian concept. It makes no sense at all.



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 09:17 PM
link   
reply to post by mjd59
 


Measure for measure is talking about knowledge and wisdom and here is what it says:

bible.cc...

New International Version (©1984)
"Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you--and even more.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Then he added, "Pay close attention to what you hear. The closer you listen, the more understanding you will be given--and you will receive even more.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And he said to them, “Pay attention to what you hear: with the measure you use, it will be measured to you, and still more will be added to you.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He was saying to them, "Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it will be measured to you; and more will be given you besides.

International Standard Version (©2008)
He went on to say to them, "Pay attention to what you're hearing! You will be evaluated by the same standard with which you do your evaluating, and still more will be given to you,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He went on to say, "Pay attention to what you're listening to! [Knowledge] will be measured out to you by the measure [of attention] you give. This is the way knowledge increases.

King James Bible
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

American King James Version
And he said to them, Take heed what you hear: with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you: and to you that hear shall more be given.

American Standard Version
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete it shall be measured unto you; and more shall be given unto you.

Bible in Basic English
And he said to them, Take care what you give ear to: in the same measure as you give you will get, and more will be given to you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he said to them: Take heed what you hear. In what measure you shall mete, it shall be measured to you again, and more shall be given to you.

Darby Bible Translation
And he said to them, Take heed what ye hear; with what measure ye mete, it shall be meted to you; and there shall be more added to you.

English Revised Version
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete it shall be measured unto you: and more shall be given unto you.

Webster's Bible Translation
And he said to them, Take heed what ye hear: With the measure which ye give, it shall be measured to you: and to you that hear shall more be given.

Weymouth New Testament
He also said to them, "Take care what you hear. With what measure you measure, it will be measured to you, and that with interest.

World English Bible
He said to them, "Take heed what you hear. With whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you who hear.

Young's Literal Translation
And he said to them, 'Take heed what ye hear; in what measure ye measure, it shall be measured to you; and to you who hear it shall be added;

Matthew 7:2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luke 6:38 "Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure-- pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."


It is not what one man will inflict on another evil man.

The bible says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,
that clause is in the Old Testament.

That concept is called retribution.

Justice is Mine says the Lord.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by slugger9787]



posted on Aug, 26 2010 @ 11:53 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


annee which are you in your basic belief about reality?

Naturalism=atheistic
Pantheism=only spiritual reality exists, everything is part of G*d, G*d is in everything and everyone
Polytheism=the world is populated by spirit beings who govern
Post modernism=reality is socially constructed
Theism=Spirit and material all created by one entity

I know you are intelligent enough to answer that.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 12:10 AM
link   
You decide. If you think I need to be put in a box with a label.

I believe energy evolved into consciousness/intelligence - that thought is energy that creates.

That there are layers upon layers of creations and sub-creators.

Basically - - everything is an illusion - - and the only thing that really exists is energy.

That our world (illusion) is an evolved form of an electronic video game. With set rules - plus free will in how you play it.

I am a created energy consciousness/intelligence - - many many layers removed from the original Creator consciousness.

*** and do not ask me what created energy - - because you can not tell me what created god. And do not say god just is.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 02:37 AM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


Pantheism, Hnduism, Taoism, Buddhism, New Age Consciousness.

Only the spiritual (energy) exists. All else is illusion, Mayan.
Spiritual reality, Brahman, is eternal, impersonal, and unknowable.
All is One and One is in All.

Mans belief that he is an individual is an illusion.

Truth is an experience of unity with "the oneness" of the universe.

Truth is beyond all ratinal thought.

No wonder it seems like a merry go round talking to you.

I bet you really are blond.
LOL


[edit on 27-8-2010 by slugger9787]



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 05:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by slugger9787
I bet you really are blond.
LOL


Hmmmm.

You must be feeling that you're losing an argument.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 06:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by Mary Rose
In the book Stewart Says... published by Expansions Publishing Company copyright 2004 he writes . . .


There is another chapter in this book that I like because I can picture this scenario happening and it makes sense to me - regarding how we get here:

Since thoughts are concepts and ideas of the soul-personality, we call this the mind-pattern. The mind-pattern is a collection of the thoughts, emotions, and desires of the soul-personality. These are electromagnetic pulses. As they enter or descend into a physical reality, the free-floating atoms and electrons in that reality coalesce around the electromagnetic patterns. These, then, form into protein bases that match the mind-pattern. These protein bases are then the foundation for the DNA which it then creates by combining in various formats. The DNA is the blueprint for the entire body.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 06:29 AM
link   
reply to post by Mary Rose
 


And the scenario reminds me of this video:




posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 11:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by slugger9787
I bet you really are blond.
LOL


Hmmmm.

You must be feeling that you're losing an argument.


WOW Mary Rose, you must either be precognitive or clairvoyant.
I am totally amazed.

Are you perhaps sensing and divining my emotional ripples and energy on the astral plane and recombining them into thought perception energy wave patterns to discern my feelings, which are not "that you are losing an arguement."

Which by the way the fact:
"You must be feeling that you're losing an arguement."
Is not a feeling it is a thought.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 11:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by slugger9787

No wonder it seems like a merry go round talking to you.

I bet you really are blond.
LOL



What a dumb arse remark.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 11:54 AM
link   
reply to post by slugger9787
 


I see that you are an expert at making up replies to save face. Feel better?



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 12:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mary Rose

There is another chapter in this book that I like because I can picture this scenario happening and it makes sense to me - regarding how we get here:

Since thoughts are concepts and ideas of the soul-personality, we call this the mind-pattern. The mind-pattern is a collection of the thoughts, emotions, and desires of the soul-personality. These are electromagnetic pulses. As they enter or descend into a physical reality, the free-floating atoms and electrons in that reality coalesce around the electromagnetic patterns. These, then, form into protein bases that match the mind-pattern. These protein bases are then the foundation for the DNA which it then creates by combining in various formats. The DNA is the blueprint for the entire body.


Oh I like that.

Never read this before.



posted on Aug, 27 2010 @ 12:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


Glad you like it. It's fun to share enthusiasm!



new topics

top topics



 
74
<< 36  37  38    40  41  42 >>

log in

join