For the First Time Ever, Scientists Watch an Atom's Electrons Moving in Real Time

I read a bit more about the Delayed Choice quantum eraser experiment, but the explanation of the interference pattern seems to not exciting after all. From what I understand so far, the observed interference patterns are caused by phase differences of the initial photon. The phase has influence on both where the photon will hit sensor D0, and whether it will hit sensor D1 or D2. The latter is because the way beam splitters work (see for example here and here). When you combine the data of sensors D1 and D2 you will no longer see an interference pattern.

reply to post by nh_ee


'There is a thread on free online courses in Physics at The Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

More ATSers should consider taking some of them....It would really make a lot more sense to some of us here without these baseless hypotheses ! '

MIT is full of it, their math is wrong, don't do it.

Originally posted by -PLB-
I read a bit more about the Delayed Choice quantum eraser experiment, but the explanation of the interference pattern seems to not exciting after all. From what I understand so far, the observed interference patterns are caused by phase differences of the initial photon. The phase has influence on both where the photon will hit sensor D0, and whether it will hit sensor D1 or D2. The latter is because the way beam splitters work (see for example here and here). When you combine the data of sensors D1 and D2 you will no longer see an interference pattern.

You missed the most important part...

If both entangled photons reach D0, you get an interference pattern. Proving that the act of detection is not what influences the wave function to collapse.

The crystal used to split the beam is simply there to entangle the photon, to prove that if a photon reaches a detector other than D0 and it's entangled partner is picked up at D0 the wave function collapses... If the state of one particle is known then through entanglement the state of the other is set.

The question is why does the interference pattern remain if both entangles photons are picked up by D0 that cannot detect which slit the photon came from. Yet if it's entangled partner is picked up by any other detector the wave function collapses.

Korg.

Must have missed that part (that both photons are sent to D0, where did you read it?). But it does make sense. I found another experiment that is very well explained:

grad.physics.sunysb.edu...

I can't remember where I heard this, (I found it an interesting thought) we should not see light as something that travels, but it is something that is already there instantly. We only perceive it as something that is traveling. So in fact it is "known" from the beginning what is going to happen to either photon. But I guess if this were true you could easily create paradox by delaying one of the entangles photons long enough. You could simply look at the created pattern, and if it is an interference patter you could decide to not erase the which-way data, or vice verca. Could it be that delaying one of the photons (by mirrors? Or a fiber?) they become disentangled? Or does any way of delaying the photons always erase the which-way data? That would make sense to me.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by -PLB-]

Originally posted by -PLB-


I can't remember where I heard this, (I found it an interesting thought) we should not see light as something that travels, but it is something that is already there instantly.

In Loop Quantum Gravity, light is somewhat like a carrier wave that is modulated by quantum fluctuations at the Planck scale.

So in this case light could be thought of as omnipresent and a property of time-space rather than a particle held within a space-time substrate. if you follow me.

But I guess if this were true you could easily create paradox by delaying one of the entangles photons long enough. You could simply look at the created pattern, and if it is an interference patter you could decide to not erase the which-way data, or vice verca. Could it be that delaying one of the photons (by mirrors? Or a fiber?) they become disentangled?

To my knowledge particles that are entangled cannot be untangled by separating them. Since space-time is a single entity this applies to both distance in space and in time.

The moment you observe the properties of one photon you would alter the other. The wave function collapses for both particles and so there would be no interference pattern generated from either photon.

Have to go pick up my partner from work now.

Back later to expand further.

Korg.



[edit on 6-8-2010 by Korg Trinity]

reply to post by Aquarius1


Thank you for reading my posts on your thread and your replies...

I hoped others would have read my last post on page 5 in your thread, and realise that the “Double Slit” experiment involves 4 “Edges”.
We First need to explore the nature of using a “Single Edge” as I showed in my post, involving Prisms shown on page 5.


In both the Demonstrations…

1/. where an “Edge” is used, as one of the “Components” needed to produce a Visual Spectrum.

2/. The “Double Slit” Experiment.



The same Phenomenon is present in both cases regarding “Edges” and the affect they have on LIGHT.



or…




And both together, in the Form of a Narrow “Slit” and a Wider “Slit”.



The "Inter-phasing" patterns, produced by a “Double Slit” or even a single “Slit” comprising of 2 “Edges” has been misread by science in the past.

This situation often arises, and is Not realised, as it is the Human Species that is trying to understand (interpreting what they see involving Indoctrination through the education system).


To fully understand the affect an “Edge” has on the Inter-phasing of LIGHT, one has to understand what is being produced by...

1/. a single edge affecting Light.

2/. A pair of edges One inverted in relation to the other (Forming a wide open "Slit").

3/. A narrow "Slit" (One edge Inverted combined with the first Edge)

4/. The Relationship between the 2 "Slits". (The narrowness of the 2 "Slits" and there proximity to each other.)

For those Interested, please re-look carefully at my Last Post on page 5 of this thread regarding "Prisms", "Edges" and "Slits"....

[edit on 6-8-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by playswithmachines
MIT is full of it, their math is wrong, don't do it.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. If you're serious, are you going to enlighten us regarding the correct math?

reply to post by badw0lf


Yeah...quantum mechanics is nuts isn't it!

The electrons go through one slit as a particle, go through two slits as a wave, and a particle, and also doesn't go through either! But when being observed it goes through the two slits as a particle...completely bonkers.

It's as though the electron is a naughty kid, getting up to mischief when not being watched, but behaves itself and acts as the observer expects it to act when it's being watched.

I know, it doesn't make any sense. Unless one reasons that electrons have some weird quantum 'intelligence', or that our vision whether that be electronic or natural vision, creates a changed quantum state by utilizing unknown visual quantum effects.

Maybe the photons being directed into the lens of our eyes, or the camera lens, contribute to the changed quantum state? Who knows? If the greatest minds in quantum research haven't got a clue, it's purely guesswork and speculations at this point.

The part with the tape is a lie I think, made up, with no recording= wave or recording=particle while the detectors are still left operating.

Just my thought.

Originally posted by pepsi78
The part with the tape is a lie I think, made up, with no recording= wave or recording=particle while the detectors are still left operating.

Just my thought.

Not a lie as such, just a use of words that although not directly accurate in method, was meant to relay a point to an audience that does not currently have a background in physics.

It was the reason I posted it first prior to my more in-depth break down.

Hope this helps,

Korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity

It's really light that is crashing the wave, light will it's self create a pattern.
This with they left it on but did not record anything is a joke to make people move on and accept that by recording it will make the electron fly straight when in fact shining light on the wave will make it behave like a particle.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

It's really light that is crashing the wave, light will it's self create a pattern.
This with they left it on but did not record anything is a joke to make people move on and accept that by recording it will make the electron fly straight when in fact shining light on the wave will make it behave like a particle.

You are mistaken, the experiment uses a single quanta of light, a photon. The very fact that it appears to interfere with itself is the whole point of the experiment.

Please take a look at the two slit experiment vid I posted earlier.

All the best,

Korg.

I have to agree that the first video is wrong and misleading and is not helping in understanding the subject any better, on the contrary.

I am still interested in this which-way data paradox. My previous post was edited after Korg Trinity answered to it.

So I understand the photons can not get disentangled. So my next question is, does any way of keeping a photon local (mirror, fiber) erase the which way data? In the experiment I posted they use a polarizer to erase the which way data. Do mirrors or fibers also polarize the photons? And if not, aren't we dealing with a paradox?

There is no paradox under the sun, exposure to light on the electron will make the wave focus/ contract into a particle. Since there is no light at subatomic level you have to focus light on it "the detector" is light along with a sensor/camera

If you don;t put light on the electron you can't see it (really dark at subatomic level) when you put light on something you want to see, what happens ? You see it, otherwise it's dark and you can't see it. It's the frequncy range of the electron, exposed to the light it will change. It can expand as a wave and focus as a particle, expand in the dark, focus into the light.
It's a rule and particles are no different, anything in this world can expand or focus, if you burn plastic it will melt. Glass will turn into water, anything can expand or focus. Same as for the electron, get larger as a wave or focus as a particle.

This with observation did it, it's conciosness is new age crap, for people to go with new age religion. It's the agenda the brainwashing agenda.


Ohh no you looked at it and it turned into a particle. and they got some BS story with "look we even left the magnetic tape recording so it turned back into a wave because we got the results"

Has nothing to do with the tape, just exposure to light is enough.

reply to post by pepsi78


The experiment is done using photons. It it pretty well explained in the link I posted above. In summary:

*Without which way data known you get an interference pattern.
*With which way data known the interference pattern collapses.
*With which way data known and then erasing it again you get an interference pattern again.

But now for the paradox part:

*With which way data known and then erasing it again after the measurement you still get an interference pattern.

As if the photon "knows" that in the future you are going to erase the which way data. But, if you can observe the interference pattern, then you can decide not to erase the which way data. And there you have the paradox. This paradox is solved however if any way of delaying the photon erases the which way data.

Still, the implications of this experiment is that whatever happens to a photon during its existence, is already "known" from the moment it is created. That is pretty amazing.

ps, with "which way data" i mean the actual properties "stored" in the photon itself, not some external recorder or memory.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by -PLB-]

But now for the paradox part:
*With which way data known and then erasing it again after the measurement you still get an interference pattern.
As if the photon "knows" that in the future you are going to erase the which way data. But, if you can observe the interference pattern, then you can decide not to erase the which way data. And there you have the paradox.
This paradox is solved however if any way of delaying the photon erases the which way data.

It's a hoax, they did not know if light affects the wave function, they were not sure and they stated that if light does colapse the wave function they have no way of knowing because there is no other device capable of taking a look at it without exposing it to light.

This is a new addition, brand new, figure it out and then make a hoax, cover up story, because honesty is not a way to go ? more crap more cover up stories, these are the people running the world today.
I wish we lived in a world full of understanding filled with values and morals that would benefit us all, but we don't live in it.

But instead it's we left the tape on or we left the tape off and that and that happened and the foton or electron noticed us got scared and behaved nice or triked us It's like the disney chanel.

Think of it like this, why can't you see into the dark really ?
Really ask your self, why can't you see into the dark without any device or flashlight ? is darkness something ?
What is your explenation, my god it's so easy.
What is dark ? The absence of light ? So because there is light you can
see things in front of you, if it were dark you would not see them because
they are beyond you visual sight as something different.

Electrons shift, if you take a look at a electron you notice that it has no composition, no body, it's just energy, nothing else, no shell, no nothing.
You will see it defined as it's outer negative charge has "unlimited range"

Here is a close lookup of the electron, notice the wave like pattern because it's what it is, plus it has to expand to hold the matrix so you don't fall down the floor or run across walls. It's outer energy layer just expands and contracts while it's inner core that produces radio active decay regulates the outer part on how to expand or focus.


Notice, infinite range of the outer part.

reply to post by pepsi78


So you are saying this paper is a hoax?

grad.physics.sunysb.edu...

If so, do you have any source for this?

And I like to stress this again, the experiment does not involve any electron whatsoever.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by -PLB-]

They stated this is not new but.... Hoax exposed, it is a new doctrine.

At the end of this you tube clip it is stated.
It's as if the electron was aware being watched.
However no matter what sort of meajuring device how small interacted with the electron collapsing the pattern.

It states:

The userentity principle is as follows, it is impossible to design an apparatus to determine what slit the electron will pass ..that will not at the same time disturb the electron enough to colapse it's wave function.

There for light will colapse the wave function.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by pepsi78]

Really explains the wave functions expansion over a great distance.


[edit on 8-8-2010 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by pepsi78

 

So you are saying this paper is a hoax?

grad.physics.sunysb.edu...

If so, do you have any source for this?

And I like to stress this again, the experiment does not involve any electron whatsoever.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by -PLB-]

It's just my opinion that different particles are just waves tuned in a different way.