dogs, as both a weapon and a tool.....

i've always had dogs. i have a wonderful aussie shephard/border collie/healer mutt right now.
very, very smart animal, a bit over 2 years old.
she guards, she tracks, she hunts, she points out things i'd never see w/o her help.
she also is a quick judge of people, if she growls at you, there's a damn good reason.
i've had many dogs of many breeds. i tend to stick with the ranch/herding breeds because of their smarts, and certain insticts they possess. in the past i also had an aussie shepherd/ wolf hybrid.
some people tend to go with other breeds for different reason.
like german shepherds, rotties, dobbies and pit bulls.
i'm not a fan of these dogs for a simple reason. many do not do well off leashes, in the woods, full time.
what these dogs are great for is guarding. it does make a big difference with these breeds if they are fixed.
hanging out with 2 uncut pits can definately be an adventure.
anyhow, my main goal of this post is to relay a concept in training that i've practised for over 20 years.
it's called 'a freethinking dog'. thebasic idea is not to train away your dogs natural instincts. everytime you tell your dog not to bark at somebody, your removing alot of the protection for you the dog feels is worthy of a bark or growl. instead, tell them, 'good dog', and them work on who you want them to go off on.
like my maggie, if you come out of nowhere and stick your head in the door, she will bark, growl, show her teeth, and possibly bite you.
if you announce yourself first, she will yip a bit, a slowly confront you at the door.
if she knows you, and you approch, hey maggie, she'll great you with her tail wagging, yet give you a good once over sniff, just to make sure there's nothin there she doesn't like.
another good explanation of this is when we're deep in the woods.
she usually stays about 20 yards ahead of me on the trail. if she barks, and takes off, it's most likely a squirrel.
if she stops, does a strange point, waits till i catch up, yet wags her tail, it's something bigger, a deer, maybe an elk, something she is asking permission to chase.
if she backs up, comes to my side, stops, with a low growl in her throat, it's either a bear, moose or human. something threatening.
ok, that's a start, does this concept interest anyone?
does anyone understand or have questions?

reply to post by rubbertramp


Amen.

I'm a dog person as well. My family has always owned a dog since I was a baby. They're great companions, unlike cats. Whenever I am with them, I usually default to their senses and investigate what they see/hear/smell. Pay attention to their barks. You eventually learn which barks means trouble or a simple hello.

As early as you can, teach your dogs to be point/decoy. Whenever I suspect something is wrong in my house, I have my dogs examine each room before entering. All I do is point at a door and they wait for me to open it.

my dogs neither a tool or a weapon or much of a dog for that matter. he's more like my mums forth child (there's more pictures of him round the house than me) if it's raining he doesn't want to go out, he gets a plain McFlurry if someone goes to maccy dee's and generally thinks he's human. the only dog like thing he does is chase rabbits and even then he doesn't have a clue what to do what to do when he gets near one. he was abused as a pup and we got him from the local animal shelter. he's very well behaved. if it came to a SHTF scenario I'm sure he'd have a few tricks up his sleeve and would guard me if i were attacked but other than that he's more like a brother than a dog. he like a staffie meets a lurcher with a bit of Labrador thrown in for some good measure

It will be a good idea to have a dog if/when the next cataclysm occurs. They are a good resource for sure.

Hunt, protect, companion. All good.

Double post. My apologies.

[edit on 4-8-2010 by zroth]

I have also had dogs my entire life and can't imagine life without them. I have 2 dogs right now, one I have had less than a year but the other I had had since she was a little puppy about 8 years ago. I used to live in San Diego with my backyward fence right up against I think about 4 baseball fields. The lowest field was the one right against my fence and they never used that field.

So the field was overrun with grass, weeds and just tons of mice. I lived in that house for 5 years and was constantly fighting against keeping mice out of my house. Pretty much every night there would be multiple mice in traps.

Anyway, my black lab/something mix used to catch all sorts of mice. Most people think of cats when they think of that, but she was a pro at it. If the mouse went somewhere she couldn't get to she would whine at me to move whatever it was. One time I was lazy and didn't want to move the whole desk. I was playing games with a friend and stopped paying attention to her. Probably 45 minutes went by when all of a sudden she jumped up and next thing I know she had a mouse. Thats when I realized she had been sitting there tracking that mouse just waiting for it to come out.

I moved out of that place and into a house with some friends, that place had rats. Sometimes I would see them coming to the house down a wire that went by a tree. She must have caught over 15 rats in the year that I lived there. She even would get me to open drawers because she knew there was a rat in there.

Sorry for the long story, didn't intend it to be that long. Never had a dog that could catch mice and rats like that before. Oh yeah, she even caught a dove once in the backyard...no idea how she pulled that one off.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Big dog lover ...unfortunately I live in an apartment building here in Canada, so I don't have a mutt at the moment. We always had dogs in South Africa. The one in my Avatar is called Tequila - she's my brothers GF's dog. Lovely little Jack Russel.

Tough as nails I tell you. If she was at our place and saw these little lizards on the wall, she would stay there for almost an hour, waiting for her opportunity to strike. She wasn't trained what so ever, but her natural instincts and awareness were unbelievable.

She was scared of nothing, willing to take on a damb Saint Bernard if she faced 1 - crazy dog, but the heart of a lion.

On the flip side, very loyal and caring to her human companions. Loved to take a goof with me in the pool, and had one hell of a 6th sense. Days before I left for Canada, she wouldn't leave my side. I miss that mutt

3 dogs here
Pits and Sharpei, they are lovers....as long as you are family and some friends, the rest are food.
I listen to my dogs, if they do not like someone I agree.
They are well adjusted and have no food aggression.
They are pretty much my kids now.
I only use them as an early detection system other than that I prefer to handle the security issues as I would not handle losing any of them well.

ha, great stories. something about a good dog always brings a smile to my face.

i've learnt in the past, even the most meelow dog will completely change it's disposition when confronted by a real percieved threat.

the aussie/ wolf i mentioned was incredible. 140 pounds, kids used to ride him all the time. no threat to anyone, yet one time, i returned to my truck, and one guy was standing there holding his bloody hand, 'your damn dog stuck his head out the window and bit me. give me a ride to the hospital, your paying for everything.'
no he didn't, would never happen.
i'm calling the cops.
go ahead.
well, the cops roll up, believe him, put me in handcuffs, and start contemplating the dog catcher and killing my friend.
officer, can i have a word?
what.
sir, with all due respect, you got the wrong guy. that dog would never stick his head out and bite someone walking by. please go look inside the truck and see what this guy tried to steal.
will he bite me?
yup, just please walk over and open the door, i'll tell him to get in the bed of the truck.
he does, and the dog gets out, jumps in the bed.
as soon as the officer opened the door, i noticed blood inside the truck, on the seat. the cop noticed it too.
i know right away, this guy wasn't after my stereo, he was after my dog.
the handcuffs were switched from me to him, and i drove away.
first and only time an officer of the law actually apologized to me.
admitted he jumped to conclusions and was wrong.

Pretty cool. I have a cat, an old Siamese, she's kind of like a dog, she comes when I call her and she likes steak. I take care of four uncut blue pit bulls. I love dogs. These dogs are all, tied up. I think they're great. If you know them they're all really nice dogs. They lick. When I'm around all their wags are low wags. I've known them all since they were pups. The oldest biggest dog is on a 150 foot wire that runs across the yard. He can go any where. Some times the owner lets them all run loose out in the woods. I take them down to the river for a swim from time to time, they love the water. It really surprised me the first time, they all jumped in no hesitation at all. Neat. Excellent watchdogs. Good with the owner's kids. When my cat goes on to her reward, I'm getting a pit.

reply to post by alonzo730


pits like that can be a plus, for some.
uncut pits are fine, until they get in their first real fight. after that, gotta' be real careful. it's all about the dangling things between thier hind legs.
some pits will kill other uncut males in a heartbeat. big or little, i've seen pits just chomp some little rugrat that just wandered to close. i've also seen children get to close to fights and get bit.
we all hear the stories, i don't blame the dogs, i blame the owners for.
1- thinking that pit would never be aggressive.
2- getting into an aggressive line of pits that were raised over generations to fight.
3- wanting a dog basically cause pits are a sort of status symbol to many.

i've know great pits, mostly the females that have been raised with kids are ok.

i've also know uncut males that have never been off a chain. such a cute puppy.
year and a half later, a good fight.
after that, they'll try and kill any other uncut male, and some turn aggressive towards humans.

nothing i hate more than a dog on a short chain that the owner is even afraid of.

interesting. here's a link to, the top ten most dangerous. few i knew.
figured pits would be in top five.
was surprised by the husky and malamute listing.

top ten.

Top Ten (10) Most Dangerous Dog Breeds All dogs can be potentially dangerous, however some dogs are more dangerous than others. Various types of breeds can be considerably stronger and larger than a person of average size. Training, socialization and proper care can make a significant impact, however some dogs are by years of breeding more aggressive. After in depth research and analyzing the studies performed by the American Veterinary Medical Association, the CDC, and the Humane Society of the United States, we have compiled the top ten most dangerous dog breeds. By: admin Posted: October 15, 2007 10. Dalmatian Dalmatians are very protective dogs and can be aggressive towards humans. They are very active and need lots of exercise. They have very sensitive natures and an excellent memory. This bred is famed for their intelligence, indepedence, and survival instincts. Weight: 40-70 lbs. Origin: Yugoslavia 9. Boxer Unlike their name suggest, these dogs are not typically aggressive by nature. They are bright, energetic and playful breed. Boxers have been known to be "headstrong", which makes it a bit difficult to train them but with positive reinforcement techniques, Boxers often respond much better. Weight: 50-70 lbs. Origin: Germany 8. Presa Canario Originally bred to guard and fight with cattle, an attack by this dog has been described as hopeless for the victim. They are a guardian breed with man-stopping ability, incredible power and a complete lack of fear. Weight: 80-115 lbs. Origin: Canary Islands 7. Chow Chow These dogs can be aggressive if poorly bred. The Chow Chow may appear to be independent and aloof for much of the day but needs constant reinforcement. Weight: 50-70 lbs. Origin: China 6. Doberman Pinschers Dobermans are great guard dogs for their alertness, intelligence and loyalty. They can be agressive dogs when provoked. The typical pet Doberman attacks only if it believes that it, its property, or its family are in danger. Weight: 65-90 lbs. Origin: Germany 5. Alaskan Malamutes These dogs are very energetic and active. If they are bored, they can become destructive. That's why this dog needs lots of exercise to be happy. Weight: 75-100 lbs. Origin: Nordic 4. Huskies Very energetic and intelligent dogs. Not considered a good guard dog because of its personality characteristics and gentle temperament. A 2000 study of dog bites resulting in human fatalities in the U.S. found fifteen such fatalities (6% of the total) were caused by "husky-type" dogs between 1979 and 1997. Weight: 44-66 lbs. Origin: Alaska 3. German Shepherds These dogs are intelligent and very alert. They are highly used by local authorities such as the police K-9 unit. German shepherds are known to be fearless and confident dogs. Weight: 70-100 lbs. Origin: Germany 2. Rottweilers Rottweilers are known to be very aggressive dogs because of their keen territorial instincts. That's why they make great guard dogs. Weight: 100-130 lbs. Origin: Germany 1. Pit Bulls A pit bull is a fearless dog that will take on any opponent. They will lock their jaws onto the prey until it's dead. Pit bulls have a reputation of mauling people to death and they are highly sought for dog fighting. Weight: 55-65 lbs. Origin: United States Dogs most often make wonderful pets, however in certain circumstances, any type of dog can be dangerous. Even friendly dogs, can inflict great harm in the wrong circumstance.

I love the idea of this it is a wonderful concept. Im happy to see someone that doesnt get mad at their dogs for barking. anyways i have 4 dogs 2 males 2 females(reproduction for survival) 2 being Golden Retrievers they are excelent companions, protective, and amazingly smart. The other 2 being Pit Bulls, they are not the best dogs in terms of smarts or control but they listen are very loving and present a giant task trying to get through 2 190lb fighting machines(they are very loving dogs though they have just been demonized by the public)

reply to post by rubbertramp


where does it say pit bulls weigh 55-65 lbs? I have 2 that weigh around 190 lbs each and are fit and athletic.

Originally posted by Sumdumguy
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

where does it say pit bulls weigh 55-65 lbs? I have 2 that weigh around 190 lbs each and are fit and athletic.

Pit bulls do not weigh 190 lbs

Only the biggest mastiff and dogs like the Ovarchka come even close to 190 lbs.

Most APBT are considered medium to the smaller end of large dogs at around 40-70 lbs.

(they are very loving dogs though they have just been demonized by the public)

you sure about that?
here's the first link in a google search, links to videos and articles inside.
pit attacks

SHOCKING PIT BULL ATTACK VIDEO September 28, 2007

Second Lynn Pit Bull Assault In One Week Oct 26, 2007
Lynn Teacher Mauled by Pit Bull Oct 26, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Child in Seagoville Oct 24, 2007
Pit Bull Mauls 8-Pound Pekingese Oct 24, 2007
Elderly Woman Injured in Pit Bull Attack Oct 24, 2007
Pit Bull Twice Attacks Children In Day Care Oct 24, 2007
Pit Bulls Kill Cancer Child's Miniature Horse Oct 24 2007
Pit Bull Shot After Charging Homeowner Oct 23 2007
Man and 1 Year Old Son, Attacked By Their Family Pit Bull Oct 22, 2007
Pit Bulls Attack, Fatally Injure Greyhound Oct 22, 2007
17 Month Old boy Injured in Pit Bull Attack Oct 22, 2007
Pit bulls Attack Man Walking His dogs in Seattle Oct 22, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Horse In Santa Fe Oct 19, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 77-Year-Old On Street Oct 18, 2007
Four Recovering After Pit Bull Attack Oct 16, 2007
3 Pit Bulls Attack 2 Dogs, Chihuahua Dies Oct 16, 2007
Potter Man Injured By Pit While working in His Backyard Oct 15, 2007
Woman Attacked By 4 Pit Bulls Oct 15, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Hernando Women Oct 13, 2007
1-Year-Old Pug Dies when Mauled by Two Errant Pitbulls Oct 10, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Parole Agent in Newark Oct 10, 2007
Township Candidate Bitten by Pit Bull Oct 9, 2007
2 Pit Bulls Attack 14 Year Old Girl Oct 9, 2007
Pit Bulls Attack School Bus Full of Disabled Kids Oct 9, 2007
White Mountain's Pit Bulls Attack Rangers Oct 9, 2007
Pit Bulls Attack 10-year-old Baltimore Boy Oct 8, 2007
Five Pit Bulls Attack Hikers Oct 7, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Second Child Oct 5, 2007
Woman Fatally Mauled by Pit Bulls She Raised Oct 4, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 2 Teens and 1 Child Walking Down Street Oct 4, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Animal Control Officer Oct 4, 2007
Woman Attacked By Stray Pit Bulls Oct 4, 2007
14-Year-Old Lab Terrified After Pitbull Attack Oct 4, 2007
7-Year-Old Recovering After Pit Bull Attack Oct 3, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 2 Girls Oct 3, 2007
Two-Year-Old Girl Recounts Pit Bull Attack Oct 3, 2007
Four-Year-Old Recovers after Pit Bull Attack Oct 3, 2007
Stunned Sons Call 911 After Pet Pit Bulls Kill Mom Oct 2, 2007
Pit Bull Bites Boy 7 on Face and Head, Oct 2, 2007
Brutal Pit Bull Attack Under Investigation Oct 1, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 2 Waterbury Boy Oct 1, 2007
Pit Bulls Attacks Teen - Dogs Still On The Loose September 28, 2007
Family's Pit Bull Attacks Small Child September 28, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks New Brighton Man September 28, 2007
Three Pit Bull Attacks Come in One Morning Sept. 26, 2007
Pit Bull Bites Bicycling Teen in Face Sept. 24, 2007
3 Pitbulls Attack 6-Year-Old Boy Sept. 24, 2007
Trash Can Is Baby's Life Saver From Pit Bull Attack September 21, 2007
Pit bulls attack woman and animal control officers September 21, 2007
Pit Bull Delivering Puppies Attacks Neighbor September 21, 2007
Pit bull attacks Chihuahua September 19, 2007
Pit Bulls Break Into House, Kill Family Cat September 19, 2007
Pit bull dogs attack, kill neighbor's Springer spaniel September 19, 2007
2 Pit Bulls Attack Pregnant Owner September 19, 2007
Pit Bull Bites Leg of Sherrif's Deputy September 18, 2007
Pit Bull Enters Home Attacks Teen, Kills Shih Tzu September 18, 2007
2 Injured In Dog Attack Near Buckner September 17, 2007
Loose Pit Bull Attacks Tahoe Police Dog Sept. 17, 2007
Pit Bull Attack In Juniper Valley Park Sept. 16, 2007
Pit Bull Pack Kills Man, Woman In Michigan September 14, 2007
Pitbull Mauls 2, 3rd Fatality This Month September 14, 2007
Pit Bull Attack Claims Life of Family's Beloved Dog Sep 13, 2007
Pit-Bull Attacks Orange County Mail Carrier Sep 13, 2007
Pit-Bull Attack on Pigs September 08, 2007
Six-year-old Attacked by Babysitter's Pit Bull September 08, 2007
Maltese Dead After Pit Bull Attack September 7, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Six-Year-Old Without Provocation Sept. 7, 2007
Man Attacked By Pit Bulls While Biking In Cabarrus County Sept. 6, 2007
Pit bull attacks letter carrier in Westminster September 5, 2007
Man Attack by Three Pit Bulls Sept. 4, 2007
6-Year-Old Mauled and Killed by Pit Bull September 2, 2007
Pit Bulls Rip Boy From Bike Near Oklahoma School August 30, 2007
Pit Bull Owner Cited After Attack August 29, 2007
Cop's Pit Bull Attacks 82-Year-Old Woman August 26, 2007
Woman Breaks Her Leg Running From Pit Bulls Aug. 24, 2007
Pit Bull Mix Attacks Boy in Columbia Heights Aug. 23, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks 15 year old Aug. 2007
Pit Bulls Burst Into Home, Attack Disabled Woman sleeping
In Bed August 22, 2007
Pit Bulls Injure Woman, Attack Officers August 22, 2007
Fatal Pit Bull Attack Prompts Review of Dangerous Dogs Aug. 18, 2007
Pit Bull Attacks Retired Couple and their Dog Aug. 10, 2007
Pack of Pit Bulls attack TV, Radio Employees Aug. 10, 2007
Pit bull kills dachshund, injures two people Aug. 9, 2007
Man Mauled Beyond Recognition in Pit Bull Attack August 08, 2007
Pit Bulls Brutally Attack Shih Tzu In Anaheim Aug 7, 2007

reply to post by rubbertramp


Personally i feel that dog's are like children products of there environments. how many people own pit bulls for the sole purpose of using them as weapons or intimidation. I'm not saying this is always the case but I'm sure that 9 times out of ten this is the case when these dog's are responsible for attacks. what happens if you raise one from a pup in a cuddly manor with love and affection?

Pit bulls are a special breed. They must be raised with the utmost love and care, and kept from being around too many strangers. They will kill small animals, and will bite those that they don't know. However, they are very loyal and loving and VERY VERY protective. I would only recommend them for those with a fenced yard, maybe someone who lives further out in the country. They also tend to stiffen their bodies when they feel angry or threatened, which would be a sign to watch for. Usually, a pitbull attack can be blamed on an incapable owner.

Other breeds (chihuahuas!) attack just as much, if not more. However, these attacks go unreported because they do not cause as much damage. Pits are strong and have the ability to kill and cause major injuries. Volunteering in a shelter has made me realize that pits do have a stigma attached, simply because they do cause more damage when they attack and defend. But I've been bitten by german shephards, blue heelers, black labs, chihuahuas, pretty much every breed around. There really is no "bad breed" of dog that attacks more than others. There are just breeds that cause more damage, and some that seem to be more tempermental.

With a loving home and careful owners, any breed of dog can be a great home defense tool. You just have to get a dog that suits your lifestyle and environment. Dogs are like people. they each have their own personalities, likes, and dislikes. You can't cram them together all into one stereotype.

reply to post by danielhanson420


i got into this a little above.

i truly believe a lot of what you say depends on whether or not you neuter your males. and sometimes females can be worse.
if an uncut male never gets in a serious fight, there is never a problem.
another part is overbreeding. certain lines are bred for many generations using the smae families of aggressive dogs.
i truly believe this effects their mental capacity.

seriously, certain breeds tend to be aggressive. go find a link similar to what i posted concerning other breeds.
#zu attacks maybe.

the thing with pits that makes lists like this more possible is the fact that when they do bite, they tend to inflict serious damage.
most other dogs don't have the lbs per square inch of pressure pits do.
i'd bet chihuahuas bite more people than pits, yet tacobell isn't gunna' send you to the hospital for 50 stitches.

reply to post by State of Mind


lol, i owe ya' a beer, we made 2 very similar posts, but yours got there first.