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Russians accuse HAARP of causing heat wave

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posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

This "new way clinic" stuff is pure poppycock new age crap, likely some derivation of prior crap like Rife or Drown.


You clearly need to do more research on harmonics.


add:
Haven't you ever read about why soldiers 'break step' at bridges?
edit on 16-10-2010 by thoughtform because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by DavidN

A few MW is nothing. In fact isn't there somewhere around 3-4 GW in the atmosphere constantly charged?


That doesn't really make sense, but whatever.



Taking batteries into account. a 1.5v battery can create enough heat to burn someone using a paperclip, done it before. A 6v can create enough heat to melt the paperclip at the tip, and make the whole thing too hot to touch. As you raise the voltage-wattage the changes are exponential.


A meaningless comparison, I'm afraid.



And no one has taken into account the effects of harmonics. The whole 180 array could create a harmonic signal that could have devastating effects, and frankly unless you have a degree pertaining to frequency harmonics I don't want to hear "It just doesn't work that way."

An array of 3 Tesla coils makes up the magnifying transmitter. To my knowledge all 3 are set to different frequencies creating a harmonic that can receive or transmit energy a lot better than a single one. Harmonics is the key.



Pretty sure you don't understand what a harmonic is. I do have a comm theory EE and a physics degree or two. There isn't any "degree in frequency harmonics".



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
At our most fundemental level we exist in waves... To say that waves do not affect us then is moronic... Just ask those prone to seasonal affected disorder if the waves from the sun does not affect their moods!.


Oh, no, not another one of those arguments where the terms "wave" and "frequency" are syncretized from their new age "meanings" to physics.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Phage
 

Can you argue against the fact that at the most fundemental level in terms of quanta that we do not exist as waves?

SAD is a disoder that is directly attributed to the lack of UV radiation that is about where the human skin cannot make vitimin D that does affect moods btw.. Hense why sufferrers sit under UV lamps over winter months


FACT


Any statement with the word "wave" or "frequency" or the like has to include the description "waves of what", or it's meaningless. Waves in the ocean are not waves of sound are not waves of EM radiation. The term 'wave' is simply descriptive of a class of phenomena.

Thus you can't say "sound is associated with the term frequency" "radio is also associated with the term frequency" and thus "since they are both associated with this term they are then co-identical", because they have nothing to do with each other.

Your argument "vitamin D is in part produced by EM waves of a certain frequency range" "a lack of vitamin D may contribute to depression" therefore "any wave phenomenon can affect any mood" is sort of a leap.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Pretty sure you don't understand what a harmonic is. I do have a comm theory EE and a physics degree or two. There isn't any "degree in frequency harmonics".


Impressive credentials, you might just be the only one on this thread with a relevant background, or maybe not.

But it does explain your position, I've encountered many automaton engineers who just regurgitate their texts, without actually exploring the fringe concepts, and refuse to even consider anything that is not 'ordained' by conventional, restrained engineering educators.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by againuntodust

Since ions absorb radio frequencies I guess Radio Frequency Ion Propulsion which has been in use for over 40 years now is just a conspiracy too.


Parakeets, meet cheese, cheese, meet parakeets. You are the same thing.

Sigh.

Ions, depending on what they're an ion of, may or may not absorb some radio frequencies. Ion propulsion doesn't seem to have much to do with HAARP, other than they've both got a radio transmitter in somewhere. Thus, the local AM radio station is actually an advanced rocket propulsion system. Who'd have thought?



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Redwookieaz
There is a really good book about HAARP entitled: "Angels Don't Play This HAARP". It is definately worth reading if you are interested in the HAARP conspiracies. They have a great deal of evidence pointing to it having some very interesting capabilities including, weather modification.


Actually, there's close to nothing in AADPTH that's correct. Begich got his degree for $400 online, and he's a whack job. So is his co-author. They just string together a lot of crap, and cite themselves and a few of their friends as corroborating evidence. If you read it with some discernment, it's a lot of fun to pick the thing to bits.

Hint - I'm not likely to take a validating statement from someone who's other published work involves the power systems of Atlantis at face value.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform

Originally posted by Bedlam

Conjecture's one thing, fantasy's another. One generally tries to conjecture inside of the known facts, or at least right around the edges.


I'm not sure exactly what you are implying here.

Are you implying it is fantasy, for HAARP (scalar/LW/EM tech) to be capable of manipulating, effecting weather or other atmospheric conditioning?


Scalar EM is a fantasy, one that Bearden originated. There are no longitudinal propagating EM waves. You can get them in waveguides, but not as propagating EM. There is no "aether". Tom is a big aether freak, and actually, he's just sort of nuts in general. I used to know him when I lived in Huntsville, you can't get a word in edgewise.

He does believe in "ZOG" though, although most folks that add Tom's whacky scalar stuff to their sites don't mention ZOG and Excalibur and the like, because it doesn't exactly help their cause, ya know? Also Tom's degree, like Begich's, is "honorary", meaning he bought it online.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform
reply to post by Bedlam
 


It seems like you are an expert in the field of weather, but have a touch of tunnel vision from your vertical expertise, rather than more horizontal aspects.

What you say is valid, but I think you are missing the other aspects and implementations of that technology.

And examining our history and eventual disclosure, we find the military complex always seems to be exploiting technology in ways that don't seem obvious and skirt the boundaries of what you find in scientific journals and white papers.


Not so much weather as comm theory and general physics, I'll likely specialize in the physics of sound propagation since the Navy wants to pay for it, we've been bidding a lot of weird sonar equipment and they want one of us to be a specialist in the field first.

As far as the military exploiting research, sure they do, but in this case it's less death beams and mind control or what not and all comm related stuff, as you'd expect from a big arsed HF transmitter. Like I said, it tends to be C3I or C3I interdiction from there. That in itself is just a huge hot button with them.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform
reply to post by Bedlam
 


Interesting read!

Source


I know, and it's all Bearden's fantasy. Tom believes that ALL EM is longitudinal, because he's an aetherist, and he's just wrong. There are no scalar waves, as far as propagating EM goes.

Tom got bounced out of the AF after he wrote a nice paper about ZOG, btw. Before that, he was actually part of the middle management of a few interesting projects, but he was never on the design or testing end, other than to shuffle paper.

/note to Phage - I think he was actually at Kirtland for a while - deep on some of his death-by-slideshow power points used to live little clipped pieces from a very interesting laser fire direction project presentation. I'm not sure if anyone ever caught it or if it was supposed to be an Easter egg.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by againuntodust
reply to post by Bedlam
 


I know what resonance is.

Some helpful criticism on your post:

Instead of creating a definition for the 'type' of person I am and establishing a sweeping statement for that group type, you should explain how the science of my post was incorrect by expounding on the correct science behind resonance. It would be win-win.


Let's start first with what you think you can resonate with 10MHz radio waves, especially those that have traveled that far, and have maybe nanowatts of power per square meter left. Then tell me about "q" and damping, and their effect on a resonant system.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform

Resonate and Harmonic frequencies are the cornerstones of modern understanding of energy and physics!

add: Which Tesla, was instrumental in guiding us down that path of understanding. they stole his work, and did not credit him for it.
edit on 16-10-2010 by thoughtform because: (no reason given)


Really, no.

They are not the cornerstone of physics.

Do you know what a harmonic is, in physics? Frequency? Not in new age lingo, physics terms. I'll wait.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform

Originally posted by Bedlam

This "new way clinic" stuff is pure poppycock new age crap, likely some derivation of prior crap like Rife or Drown.


You clearly need to do more research on harmonics.


add:
Haven't you ever read about why soldiers 'break step' at bridges?
edit on 16-10-2010 by thoughtform because: (no reason given)


Do you know what the wavelength of an 60Hz radio wave is? Do you understand the interaction of objects with wave phenomena, either longitudinal or transverse?

You can't so much as state what a harmonic is - I'm waiting for it. And you're confusing harmonics with resonance.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform
But it does explain your position, I've encountered many automaton engineers who just regurgitate their texts, without actually exploring the fringe concepts, and refuse to even consider anything that is not 'ordained' by conventional, restrained engineering educators.


I work with this stuff all the time. If you tell me that your colon is formed of 63Hz radio waves, I'm just going to laugh.

All that Rife/Drown/Reich magic bullet resonant frequency stuff reflects the fringier thinking of their day - it's not even current fringe. And a lot of it is theosophy, sad to say, with fraud coating. It persists to this day because you still get weird little persisting cultural memes that echo down the ages - that "everything has a magic frequency" meme is one. It's not true.

And yes, your argument is often used by people who don't have a working understanding of a topic, but find the fringy stuff either more interesting or more accessible to their concepts of how things work. I feel the same way about macroeconomics - it's magic, and seems like you're making it up.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform

You clearly need to do more research on harmonics.


add:
Haven't you ever read about why soldiers 'break step' at bridges?
edit on 16-10-2010 by thoughtform because: (no reason given)


Here's an example of someplace in real science that this actually comes into play. Not long ago there was an article on a research project where they were shattering satellite tobacco mosaic virus capsids by using hypersound. That got picked up on ATS and used as a (bad) example of why Rife et al were actually RIGHT!!

Only if you calculated the wavelength of the hypersound frequency (it was something like 65GHz!) it turns out to be exactly the length of the long dimension of the viral capsid. This is a "magic number" - 1/4, 1/2, or 1x the length of the thing you're trying to damage is in fact needed to get a good resonance, also the capsid is rigid in structure and has a high q, which is another requirement.

It's one thing to resonate a wine glass, but breaking a water balloon is a lot tougher. You need a proper wavelength, a structure that actually has a strong primary resonance at that wavelength, and a structure with good q that will resonate. Most macro-structures have poor resonances, or they're highly damped and dissipate the input power in the form of heat. Sometimes you can use that, too. But a 60 something Hz radio signal is about 3000 miles long. It's not going to interact with your colon or thymus.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by againuntodust
reply to post by Bedlam
 


I know what resonance is.

Some helpful criticism on your post:

Instead of creating a definition for the 'type' of person I am and establishing a sweeping statement for that group type, you should explain how the science of my post was incorrect by expounding on the correct science behind resonance. It would be win-win.


Let's start first with what you think you can resonate with 10MHz radio waves, especially those that have traveled that far, and have maybe nanowatts of power per square meter left. Then tell me about "q" and damping, and their effect on a resonant system.


Anything with a resonant frequency of 10Mhz. And whose to say there will only be nanowatts when the wave reaches the destination? Since you guess at the small end of the scale for argument's sake, nanowatts, I guess at the large end of the scale, gigawatts.

The concept is simple really, and it's modern physics. Take the frequency of an object, apply that frequency to it with enough amplitude, and the object will be destroyed. What about that doesn't fit your theory of physics? Q has nothing to do with it, and damping can be overcome with amplitude, so I await your response.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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lol




posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam
Do you know what the wavelength of an 60Hz radio wave is? Do you understand the interaction of objects with wave phenomena, either longitudinal or transverse?

You can't so much as state what a harmonic is - I'm waiting for it. And you're confusing harmonics with resonance.


Indeed, there are probably many here who were classically trained in communication theory, convolutions and the all.
Probably, many could build you a variable frequency radio transmitter with spare parts and a crystal (or other PLL).

I would even guess, some probably are engaged in DSP algorithms, using standard DTS implementations to minimize THD for a variety of applications, like anti-alias filtering, and harmonic suppression for something as trivial as a power regulator. Having to have a good handle on the concept of harmonics to manipulate them digitally.

I appreciate your opinion about Rife technology, although I disagree. The Rife theory is sound, in my opinion. The problem is with precise localization of the effect, in the implementation.
Using your analogy of the water balloon, you just need to burst a tiny prick in the membrane to lead to a catastrophic failure, same thought with a virus or such.

And 'coincidentally', that is where scalar technology come into play, you can use 2 emitters and where they intersect, is where the desired effect occurs.


I think you have a lot of expertise and insight to add to the discussion, it just seems like you are coming across a little condescending and judgmental, when there is no need.
You replied to almost every post with a strong condescending position, and using 'your' level of comprehension on topic matters be the measure of validity.


If you are familiar with working as a sub-contractor for projects. Then you know the organization.
Lets take software for example, you have a software architect and developers, each developer is given a black box requirement, without any knowledge of the scope of the entire project.
That situation extends in any type of work done, so you not being aware of, or privy to technology applications, does not mean it doesn't exist.


edit on 16-10-2010 by thoughtform because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-10-2010 by thoughtform because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by againuntodust

Anything with a resonant frequency of 10Mhz. And whose to say there will only be nanowatts when the wave reaches the destination? Since you guess at the small end of the scale for argument's sake, nanowatts, I guess at the large end of the scale, gigawatts.


First, whatever you're trying to resonate with will have to do it with EM waves. Next, a 10MHz radio wave is about 100 feet long, that gives you a best shot focus at about 200 feet spot size (you won't get it) and you won't be affecting small things in the beam, like you, for instance.

Second, here's a simple concept - it's called the square law. The power density of an EM wave falls off as an inverse square with distance. Even with HAARP having a whopping good antenna gain factor, you still only have about a gW of ERP. And by the time you get TO the ionosphere, you're down to maybe 30-50 milliwatts per square meter, much less on the bounce back to the ground traversing the distance twice. To get gigawatts per square meter after an EIE bounce, you'd have to put in several hundred times the total generating capacity of the world, and then you still won't be able to do it because the ionosphere will react violently, defocusing and scattering your beam.



The concept is simple really, and it's modern physics. Take the frequency of an object...


You go off the rails right there, though. Why do you think objects have frequencies? And frequencies of what, I might ask, since your statement is sort of ambiguous. I'd like to think you mean "EM frequency" in this context but I'm not sure you do given the other stuff in the thread, so I'm asking. And no, not every object has a characteristic EM frequency where it has a strong resonance. Some molecules have quantum mechanical resonances starting in the microwave region and extending all the way up into the optical EM bands, at the top end of the optical band you start getting electron transitions that are characteristic of elements, but a macro object like a rock or the Eiffel Tower, no. And none of them have resonances in the 10 MHz range.



...apply that frequency to it with enough amplitude, and the object will be destroyed. What about that doesn't fit your theory of physics? Q has nothing to do with it, and damping can be overcome with amplitude, so I await your response.


Well, it's more accurate to say it'll be absorbed. It generally won't destroy a molecule to hit it with a quantum mechanical resonant EM frequency, you get whatever the characteristic motion is - scissoring, rocking, spinning etc. You get high enough, and that's UV and up, and you start breaking bonds because you get into ionizing EM, but 10 MHz isn't anywhere near that.

You still seem to have this "magic bullet frequency" thing, and it's tripe.

Q does in fact have everything to do with it, and damping. If you have small power inputs, the resonance doesn't do squat, because the structure dissipates the input power as heat faster than you can pump it in by resonant coupling.



posted on Oct, 16 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by thoughtform
I appreciate your opinion about Rife technology, although I disagree. The Rife theory is sound, in my opinion. The problem is with precise localization of the effect, in the implementation.
Using your analogy of the water balloon, you just need to burst a tiny prick in the membrane to lead to a catastrophic failure, same thought with a virus or such.


Except you're trying to do it with a big very diffuse feather pillow that's 1000 miles across and no more dense than a fairy fart instead of a needle. That's the issue with long long loooooong wavelengths interacting with very very short lengths. It doesn't happen - they don't exist for each other. Rife was wrong.



And 'coincidentally', that is where scalar technology come into play, you can use 2 emitters and where they intersect, is where the desired effect occurs.


Where they intersect you get classical constructive and destructive interference, but you don't get longitudinal EM waves, which is what a "scalar wave" would be. The term doesn't even make sense. In order to have a scalar wave you'd have to have an electric dipole with no polarity, and a magnetic field with no direction. Only they do have them. So you can't generate a non-vector field with it. I know Bearden likes to yammer about it, but he's wrong.



You replied to almost every post with a strong condescending position, and using 'your' level of comprehension on topic matters be the measure of validity.


EM works the way it does. It's handy, because then guys like me can design nifty stuff like the computer you're using, or your cell phone, or your TV. If it was a big grab bag where anything could be true, it would be magic, but it follows rules. It is sort of magic anyway.

I could try sugar coating it somewhat, if it makes it sound nicer. But a lot of what "people know" is just wrong - the magic bullet thing is one.



If you are familiar with working as a sub-contractor for projects. Then you know the organization.
Lets take software for example, you have a software architect and developers, each developer is given a black box requirement, without any knowledge of the scope of the entire project.
That situation extends in any type of work done, so you not being aware of, or privy to technology applications, does not mean it doesn't exist.


No, but when you work on a lot of these projects, you are pretty familiar with what it will do, and what work is being run there, and what sort of work it is. And if you tell me - why, HAARP has 3.6MW of total output power, and they're causing macro-scale effects in the weather by heating millions of cubic kilometers of atmosphere with it, then simple physics and the back of an envelope will tell you that that's not enough energy to cause that sort of effect. And handwaving and dancing around the resonance bush isn't going to fix that.

Oh, and also, if you're getting info from a guy that bought his doctorate from Trinity University like Bearden, or that homeopathy school that Begich got his from, I'm going to be pretty skeptical. YMMV.



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