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Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by endisnighe
Uhm... ok. Everything you stated made absolutely no sense in terms of what my job is, and how I do it. I fail to understand your anger towards law enforcement, when its very apparent your grief is with the Government itself. Everything we do is based on laws that are passed, not by us, but by the government.
Take it up with them and get it changed.
As a side note, The Patriot Act has nothing to do with my job at the state local level.
Please do more research before posting please. While I have no issues with people challenging authority / Government, most of what you replied with is incorrect.
Ya.. And at the same time they make up laws and excuses on the spot to try and arrest you. They're not here to protect and to serve the people anymore. They're here to protect the system and the corporations, just like the government is doing, and most of the time they don't even know it.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Originally posted by vasaga
To the people saying they're just doing their job, I'll just leave this here.. What you do with it is up to you..
Ughh.. While I appriciate the sentiment of the video, I take exception to it. Law Enforcement Officers take an oath to protect and preserve the constitution of the United States, as well as the Constituion of the State they work in.
So you are one.. Not surprising considering your reaction.. Please do yourself a favor and wake up.. Maybe this will do something for you. Do with it what you will. You can skip to 3:20 if you want the relevant part, or you can just watch the whole thing if you're up to it.
I am not cmoing for anyone, whether it be communist, capiatalist or what have you.
Uhm.. Many laws are created that none of us elected. In most cases, it does not matter what you vote for, the direction they're going is still the same. See how Obama and Bush basically made no difference at all? And if you think it did, you should look at the facts. We don't vote for particular laws. This whole voting thing is an illusion...
Here is a thought though, so take it for what it is worth. People need to stop complaining abuut what the Police do. We do not make any laws, we just enforce the ones that "you" have elected to represent your intrests have created. If you do not like a particular law, then take part in the process and have the law changed.
No offense, but you are part of the problem. Things can easily change, but they won't change because people like you think they can't, while they can. And you're asking me to vote? I don't do that, and I have my reasons, but you probably won't understand, so I won't bother explaining. You will find out when you're ready.
Only you have the ability to effect change with our Government here in the US. Get out and Vote - quit being apathetic followed up with thigs will never change, so why try.
If you try to speak out in public, you get thrown in jail. Don't believe me? Here's an example:
Complaining with no action taken is nothing more than complaining - Do something about it. The majority of the cities, counties and state governments, as well as the Federal Government have process in place for citizens to create bills / laws with a sponsor.
Nice quote, and I agree, but I think it's kind of ironic coming from you, after stating that people should not be "apathetic followed up with things will never change ".
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
-- Margaret Mead
Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Wolfenz
Out of curiosity you do understand that as a Citizen of the United States that you hold dual citizenship? You are a citizen of the State you reside in, as well as being a Citizen of the United States of America.
People who are complaining about a National ID card, try to look at it this way. The Federal Government already has access to your state information (DL, address, etc) just as local law enforcement having access to some of your Federal information. All this is, to boil it down, is an Id card for being a US Citizen.
When I do a traffic stop and run someone, it goes through our local wants (warrants), then hits the State Database, then hits the Federal (NCIC), and depending on agency it can also check Interpol warrants, Mexican legal and Canadian legal for their warrants.
You have a drivers license, and get get a State ID if you do not want to drive and need ID. You are not required to get an ID at the state level. From what I have read, and it may have changed since its been some time, you also can decide not to get a Federal ID.
Is it possible to have collected information be used inappropriately? Yup, and again this is where participation in government comes in.
It's simple really. They do what they are told. I'm not against individuals, so don't take it personal, but I am against the way certain organizations go about.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
I am not sure why you lump all law enforcement into your evil view outlook.
But you are the ones performing it. You still have the power to stop performing the nonsense they tell you to. As an example, terrorism is performed to increase security. Terrorism is not "out there". It's being caused. HOw many countries have we bombarded because of "weapons of mass destruction" that have never been found? And yeah, real smart, lets throw bombs on the place that has bombs to stop bombing...
I have consitantly stated people need to get involved in Government, or things wont change. If you are referring to my other comment about citing court cases to officers, I stand by that stattement that it would do no good telling an officer about it, because we have nothing to do with Judicial. Arguing with a police officer road side about case law would be no better than arguing with a judge about when I can use my sidearm. They have nothing to do wih each other.
No.. By not voting I am part of the solution. Why? Because I refuse to say yes to something that is not what I want. When voting, there's always a huge part that you don't agree with, but, people vote anyway to not let the other side win. They are always choosing for the "lesser evil". How about not choosing for evil at all? This goes very deep.. It starts with our money system. If you start from there, trace it to the government, then you'll see why voting is useless and why we are nothing more than slaves being harvested. Do you know where money comes from?
I am part of the problem? Please re-read the text of mine you highlighted. I have made several suggestions for people to take part in Government to make changes, just like I do (I vote). The argument countering what I typed, then ending it with I have my own reasons doesn't help your cause in anyway. Explain to us why you are refusing to vote? And you should know, by not voting you are also part of the problem.
I knew this answer was coming.. This is a global problem, not a Canada problem.
Arrested for speaking out, then showing a video of an incident in Canada.. Hmmm ok. I dont work there, I work in the United States. People are free to protest and speak out all they want.
You don't get it do you? If you ask what you're being arrested for, that's already seen as "resisting arrest", which is seen as a criminal offense, and that will get you in jail for no apparent reason.
There is a right and wrong way to do that. Obstructin a public right of way (street) is usually what we have issues with, in addition to those who want to break into stores and oher issues during protests. We also hav issues with people fighting in public during protests. So while you can think they are being arrested for speaking their mind, in actuality it stems from other criminal offenses
So you are agreeing that they can invent any law they want without people choosing for it.
Ok - Voting - Bush and Obama. For starters we do not live in a Democracy. We live in a Representative republic. You vote for who you want to represent you (House) and your state (Senate) in the best possible manner.
Nothing changed form Bush to Obama - No kidding. They have no power to do what what we are talking about here. The President oversees foriegn policy and acts as our head of state and leader of our country.
Congress is responsible for passing laws, and the day to day running of this country, Not the President.
Who gave you the authority? The people? After being manipulated into thinking "terrorists" that want to kill everyone for fun did it?
As far as the quote goes, I have many more I like. Am I am Police Officer - Yes I am. Am I one that is being described by most of the posts.. I am not. I firmly beleive in citizen government, as well as the individual right to bear arms.
An armed population are called citizens. An unarmed population are called subjects.
I know what my job is, and how the laws work.
I took an oath to protect and preserve the constitution of my state and that of the United States. To serve and protect the people who gave me the authorty.
I'm trying to let you understand that taking part in the whole game they are playing is not the way to get what you want. It will still be their game. The only way to do that, is to step out of their game, and play or make your own game. We as people need to do that. I'm not trying to say all cops are bad. I'm sure most of them are trying to do the right thing, but, just like girls are being manipulated into thinking they are only beautiful when they are skinny and half-naked, cops and military etc have been manipulated into thinking that what they are doing is the right thing.
Those same people can take it away by voting and putting people in positions to effect the change some of you want.
The people who are part of the problem are the ones who complain yet do absolutely nothing to change the situation. I do my research, and deal with this on a daily basis in addition to actively taking part in the process. Its the only way to keep the Government in check and to ensure the citizens remain in control.
I am not real sure what it is you exactly want here.
You also have to understand the typical ATS member's mindset as far as how they think that police work.........
ooook... You are missing some key points, and I am not sure how to explain this anymore than I have. If something looks suspicious, law enforcement can check into it, wheter its someone walking down the street at 3 am, or riding a bicycle late at night.
Based on your arguments above, if I observe someone riding their bicycle with a rifle slung over there shoulders, wearing a ski mask, riding back and forth in front of a bank, I cannot stop and see what they are doing?
The terminology used is totality of circumstances. I am very well aquainted with the 4th amendment, and what I can and cannot do as a Police Officer.
An officer is empowered to investigate anything that looks suspicious, and Terry Vs. Ohio established part of that with stop and frisk was allowed by the courts ruling.
How many people ride their bikes at 10pm at night in the OP's town? Was the area the op was riding his bike in heavily patrolled because of crime? Also you will need to see what the ordinaces are concerning riding bikes at night. Some require reflectors, some require headlights, and if you are riding on a public street some places require yu have the pedal restraints for your feet to fit in.
Its alsp possible the officers were conducting Field Interview REports. Basic information is collected on the off chance crime has occured in the area.
For an entire week in my city I observed 3 young guys (18-19) walking around the neighborhoods. The first few days I noted it in my log, but made no contact. Towards the end of the week, I made contact with them and asked what they were doing. I explained I have seen them a few times that week, at night (usually around 1:30 - 3:30AM) riding around neighborhoods. I requested their names and DOB's and did a Field interview report. A few days later we had a 1st degree burglary occur (house breakin with people present in the house other than the suspects). A subsequent investigation found the people who did the break in were the people I checked on.
Excert from the ruling (Terry Vs. Ohio) (c) The officer here was performing a legitimate function of investigating suspicious conduct when he decided to approach petitioner and his companions
A Cleveland detective (McFadden), on a downtown beat which he had been patrolling for many years, observed two strangers (petitioner and another man, Chilton) on a street corner. He saw them proceed alternately back and forth along an identical route, pausing to stare in the same store window, which they did for a total of about 24 times. Each completion of the route was followed by a conference between the two on a corner, at one of which they were joined by a third man (Katz) who left swiftly. Suspecting the two men of "casing a job, a stick-up," the officer followed them and saw them rejoin the third man a couple of blocks away in front of a store. The officer approached the three, identified himself as a policeman, and asked their names.
A verified petition is a formal written request to a court for an order of the court (1) under oath taken before a notary public or other officer authorized to take affidavits and to administer oaths or (2) under a declaration stating in substance "I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct" and further stating the date and place of execution. Verification, in the legal context, refers to a declaration under oath or upon penalty of perjury that a statement or pleading is true. The verification is located at the end of a document. False information given in a verified legal pleading is subject to penalties for perjury.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Wow.. Really not even sure how to speak with you. You appear so paranoid about Law Enforcement its not even funny. Think what you want, and see where it takes you.
I know what the Law says, and how its enforced in my state. Your interpretations are so far off its sad, so I am not going to try to explain anything else. You hve your mind made up already.
Good luck to you.
Yes that is the UK =) But, Wolfenz has already provided you with some US examples. We've covered Canada, US and UK. You need to understand, that this is a global issue, and not a local issue. The whole globe is on the watch for terrorism stuff because of propaganda, and all the authorities are enforcing almost the same laws, and acting in almost the same way. You can say "it happens in those countries but not in mine", but that's denial I think. There are good ones out there, and I know that they do risk their lives in certain situations, however, it is not ok harass people BEFORE committing any crime, and that's happening everywhere, and nothing is being done about it, except for the people who are going out there and trying to expose that this is happening.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by vasaga
Those are not US style Law Enforcement uniforms or insignias.. I am asuming that is from Britain?
[edit on 6-8-2010 by Xcathdra]