Told by police that being outside at night is probable cause to pull me over and question/weapons ch

I have been pulled over three times in the past week by my local police department for riding my bicycle to the gas station after I finish work (usually after 10 pm).

Each time I am pulled over I express my concern for being randomly stopped, none of the officers have been rude in their responses but two of the three have told me straight up that "more crime happens at night" and tonight that "You mean you don't like being randomly stopped? Have you ever been the victim of a crime?"

I said no and then was told that "well, if you were, wouldn't you wish the police had randomly stopped that person?"

This officer really scared me with the philosophy she was presenting, essentially I have been informed by the police on multiple occasions that being outside at night in a residential area is grounds for being pulled over by the local police.

Are the police really allowed to do this and just constantly pull me over every time I dare go outside at night?

After I argued (like I said they have all been polite and this one actually discussed it with me calmly) the officer said that anyway she had stopped me for "Riding your bicycle on the sidewalk" and stated that it was illegal.

I stated that I had no idea this was a law and she acted like it was obvious that it was illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. I went home and looked it up and it is legal in my city except at the mall and certain business districts.

I checked state law as well and it does not prohibit sidewalk riding (california).

This is the third time I've been pulled over for no good reason whatsoever and really just because I've been riding my bike at night. I was basically told that I am presumed a criminal if I am outside at night, and that that is why I keep getting stopped.

I mean wtf? How is it right for a police station to try and intimidate me into not running errands after work unless I'm in a car?

I don't know what I can do and I am afraid if I do anything then # will get worse for me because I'll become a target for the police. That said, I am willing to become a target to stand up for my right to not get randomly pulled over on a regular #ing basis for going to the gas station or grociery store for food

I had a similar experience. It may help to call the police using the non-emergency line. Ask them what the rules are for riding bikes on the sidewalk.

I was told by a few police officers that riding a long board in the bike lane was not allowed in my city.

I looked up the laws and sure enough it is perfectly legal. I called the non-emergency police line and told them my predicament. They told me a police officer would call me back and let me know exactly what the law is.

A cop called me up and let me know that I was correct and that he would bring it up at a meeting so all the officers would know boarding in the bike lane is legal. I was never hassled (in the day time) again.

Go to the chief and tell them you are being harassed. If it continues sue them. That's all they understand...what hits them in the pocket.

keep riding your bike, when they stop you, strike up a conversation with them, mention that you usually ride you bike to the store after you get out of work at that time....
eventually, they might get so that they see ya, know ya, know what you are doing, and well.....leave ya alone.....

and well be happy....
the neighborhood we lived in before we moved where we are at now, used to occasionally have about six cops with police dogs walking up and down the street. my son was stopped and questioned as he walked from the house and got into his car, to go to work....

and then if you really needed a cop in that neighborhood and called for their assistance, well, it would take them hours to get there, and then there'd be a dozen or so of them showing up. we'd joke about it....say that they waited so long to make sure that if there was anything going down, well, they'd miss the action, and they came with so much force, just in case they didn't.

File a complaint with the internal affairs office of the precinct that keeps stopping you. Tell them that the female cop has made unwarranted advances towards you and you don't appreciate the way she was undressing you with her eyes.

Remember, anything can sound dirty said the right way. Be sure to use her exact words, but say them in a suggestive way.

Next, if you have the money get a lawyer to write a strongly worded letter to the police department on your behalf. Telling them that this constant harassment cannot continue without you filing a lawsuit.

Remember, always be polite with the police when they stop you, but stab them in the back when they are gone. Once you do that, any further encounters with the police can be chalked up to retribution and you can actually get them in serious trouble.

Thanks JohnnyTHSeed and midnight brigade.

I will call the non-emergency line tomorrow morning and try what you tried, Johnny, and midnight, for me a lawsuit would be a last resort kind of thing. I just want to stop getting stopped every other time I go to the store that's not even a mile from my house.

That said, from now on I'm recording all police interaction and letting them know that I'm doing it. If I end up with enough recordings of these random stops then I will go and sue them because it will mean that all other attempts failed.

I would take the ride every day if I were you, and bring a camera and interview these cops. Post it on youtube and make a post here.

Can you do that please?


[edit on 4-8-2010 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by whatukno
File a complaint with the internal affairs office of the precinct that keeps stopping you. Tell them that the female cop has made unwarranted advances towards you and you don't appreciate the way she was undressing you with her eyes.

Remember, anything can sound dirty said the right way. Be sure to use her exact words, but say them in a suggestive way.

Next, if you have the money get a lawyer to write a strongly worded letter to the police department on your behalf. Telling them that this constant harassment cannot continue without you filing a lawsuit.

Remember, always be polite with the police when they stop you, but stab them in the back when they are gone. Once you do that, any further encounters with the police can be chalked up to retribution and you can actually get them in serious trouble.

Thanks for the advice, I like all of it except the part about making things sound dirty, haha.

Originally posted by Copernicus

I would take the ride every day if I were you, and bring a camera and interview these cops. Post it on youtube and make a post here.

Can you do that please?


[edit on 4-8-2010 by Copernicus]

After tonight's event I decided that this was necessary, and hell yes I will post it on youtube and here if it goes down again. Hopefully I just stop getting randomly stopped.

reply to post by sremmos


Great!

I wish more people would stand up for their rights like you do, because if people dont make it difficult for the cops to harass people, they will continue to do so and push it as far as it can go.

reply to post by dawnstar


Ouch, that's harsh wtf are they doing walking around a neighborhood with police dogs.

True it could all stop when they 'recognize' me but it shouldn't have to come to that. Riding your bike to the store and back home again is not a criminal activity, it's not probable cause, and it's not a reason to get pulled over in and of itself.

I shouldn't have to happily get my rights violated multiple times until the cops decide to stop. It's not the officer's choice whether or not to violate my rights, when s/he violates them s/he then from my understanding he or she is the one violating the law.

unfortunate for you but the police are just doing their job.
And since you are being stopped by different officers
there cannot be an identity confirmed between different
officers.

It is a known fact that some criminals use bicycles
to commit crimes at night because they are small
and elusive and can go where cars can't. Not to
mention, there is no license plate or identifying
marks on the bicycle that they can run a check
on from a moving police car. Couple that with it
being late night and dark, if I was a cop I'd stop
ya too. No offense. If your story checked out
then you would be on your way.

Look at the bright side, once you get known by the officers
patrolling that area you won't be harassed.
It just takes a lil time. Be patient, it will work out.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
unfortunate for you but the police are just doing their job.
And since you are being stopped by different officers
there cannot be an identity confirmed between different
officers.

It is a known fact that some criminals use bicycles
to commit crimes at night because they are small
and elusive and can go where cars can't. Not to
mention, there is no license plate or identifying
marks on the bicycle that they can run a check
on from a moving police car. Couple that with it
being late night and dark, if I was a cop I'd stop
ya too. No offense. If your story checked out
then you would be on your way.

Look at the bright side, once you get known by the officers
patrolling that area you won't be harassed.
It just takes a lil time. Be patient, it will work out.

but it is illegal for police to randomly stop and ID people. someone merely being outside is not reasonable cause for suspicion. instead, it is a dragnet "pull people over for being outside and maybe we will get lucky some of the time" strategy.

It is illegal, it is absolutely against my character to think it's acceptable to be randomly stopped by armed individuals and asked for documents and/or searched for weapons, then questioned for ten minutes.

There was a Supreme Court case about this I don't remember what it's called. It is illegal and it's not okay to have to be harassed by police until they are 'used to you.'

I mean no offense to you I just disagree on the principle of equal protection under the law. Just as I cannot violate the law a police officer cannot violate the law either.

also

it is a known fact that criminals:

post on forums
send e-mails
walk
drive
eat at fast food restaurants
live in housee/apartments
fish
play soccer
drink sodas

and a myriad of other things that should not get you pulled over just because criminals also do the same activities. obviously people commit crimes on bikes just like they commit crimes on every other type of vehicle and on foot. suggesting that everyone should be subject to what equates to random searches and interrogations merely because yes criminals are also human beings and use human inventions to go about their lives is absurd to me.

what is wrong with you man? you want to live in a neiborhood where some punks will beat you up or cut you? the police are doing theyr job,theyr not harrassing you or insulting you,just routinly stopping people to have security in the area.
seriously whats wrong with you being stoped for 1 minutes?
i understand if they harras you or insult you but they dont.
and you go reading the law and sperging about it. get a freakin hobby

When a police officer pulls you over, they very well may have probable cause for doing so. You, of course, cannot know this until you ask some well placed questions. The first question you should ask if a police officer pulls you over is:

"Are you detaining me officer?"

Normally, under the conditions you described, a police officer will avoid answering that question directly and usually say something to the effect of:

"I just want to ask you a few questions"

They may straight away ask you for identification Always remain polite, but ask the question again:

"Are you detaining me officer?"

Police officers who know the law, may still avoid answering such a question directly some may answer by asking you a question such as:

"Why? Should I detain you?"

Or they may insist you show them identification. Again, remain polite, and ask the question again.

"Are you detaining me officer?"

Those police officers who know the law, at this point will say no. If they do say no, then respond by saying:

"So then I am free to go?"

If they answer yes, smile, wish them well, and leave.

If a police officer does not know the law, they may get brutish with you, which at this point it is important to say:

"Officer, I intend to co-operate with you as best I can because you are armed and I am in fear for my life. However if you are detaining me, I need to know. In terms of yes or no, are you detaining me?"

If the police officer say's yes, then you say:

"Do you suspect me of committing a crime, or do I fit the description of someone who has recently committed a crime."

Under the circumstances you described, it seems the answer to that would be no. If they begin giving the explanations they gave you, then politely say:

"Officer, if you are detaining me, then there has to be a good reason why. If you are simply just detaining me because of the time of day, this is not a good enough reason, and it is my duty as a law abiding citizen to inform you that by doing so, you may very well be guilty of illegal detainment, acting under color of law, simulation of legal process, and obstruction of justice."

It is very important to always remain polite, and at this point the police officer will probably ask you if you are threatening them. It is very important that you make clear you are not.

"No officer, as I explained to you, because you are armed, I am in fear for my life, and it is I who feel threatened. However, I have not at any point granted you any jurisdiction to detain me, so if you have this jurisdiction then it is prudent to show how you got this jurisdiction, otherwise I am compelled to inform you of the law."

This will usually get their attention in the way it needs to be got. I have had police officers at this point ask me if I was a lawyer, but I have never been arrested or harassed beyond that point. Some stick around long enough to offer up the sort of explanations you just described, and I politely listen, and tell them I understand, and thank them for their concern, and wish them well.

No, a police officer does not have the legal authority to pull you over just because of the time of day.

Originally posted by sremmos
but it is illegal for police to randomly stop and ID people. someone merely being outside is not reasonable cause for suspicion.

Wrong, it's not illegal under the circumstances you
provided.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


*bows*

Thank you that was an incredibly instructive post, if it happens again that is the protocol I'll follow after informing the officer that audio is being recorded (legal requirement in California).

reply to post by boondock-saint


Can you explain, Boondock Saint? I was not committing any road violations whatsoever, was up to code as far as bicycles go and was riding home with bags of food at a reasonable speed in a well lit area on a sidewalk that was not the public road sidewalk, but instead, private property of the lake that I was riding by as I got pulled over (it is a separate sidewalk closer to the lake, and it was not past the lakes curfew).

Unless you are suggesting that I should actually believe my rights can be 'suspended' when I am pulled over, which I don't think you are.