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Immigration - If Obama would do this..Would YOU be satisfied?

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posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:02 AM
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I just want to know. If some people will ever be satisfied on the topic of immigration if this was enacted by the government.

Amnesty given to all illegal immigrants who can prove they've been here for at least 15 years and as soon as that's done. then border security in beefed up so that not a single person can enter the US illegally through the border anymore.

I want to know if people would ever be satisfied, because if your not satisfied, then your definition of satisfaction is not plausible.

Allowing amnesty to those illegals over 15 years would greatly decrease the amount of illegals given amnesty in the 1st place. 2nd, let's just say that the border security can be tight enough to not allow a single person through there without clearance (in this fairy-tale idea that it would be possible).

Then from there the policy of handing out visas is changed, so that no one can overstay there visa and remain illegal through that.

I believe this would be a fairly possible solution, as all 30 million illegals cannot be deported, through sheer number of people to be deported, how to gather them all, and the fact that it would cause chaos. It would also be very costly and take an enormous amount of time which would invalid the reason for having the illegals leave in the place because the effects would not be felt as 30 million have to be deported.


I've seen everyone rant about get the illegals out of here and blah, but there is no possible way to deport them ALL.

So I just want to know if Obama did this, would you be satisfied?
It seems a pretty square trade off.


BTW, I do believe in the harsh places and poverty illegals come from, and personally for me, I can see where they are coming from.

Let the flaming begin.




posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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Well, that doesn't exactly seem like a bad idea, I'm sure a bunch of people will maybe disagree with that, but who am I to say? I'm not them. It would be basically impossible for all of them to be deported, I mean...They're just all over the place. I say kudos for thinking about it because as far as I'm concerned...it's like a bottomless pit. There's really no way to climb up out of it so we might as well set up camp here where we're at and try to make the best of it. I think that would be better than ripping out nails off and breaking out fingers trying to claw out of something that's impossible to fix.

Actually wait, has the law gone into effect in Arizona? How has that worked so far?



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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Yes, thanks for the support
and well, I think it's in effect right now, just not the parts where a police officer can question you yet, dunno that well though.

I want to know if people will ever be satisfied with Immigration reform, as some are too stubborn to compromise.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:43 AM
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So are we going to do this every 25 years or ten years or forever?

The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA), Pub.L. 99-603, 100 Stat. 3359, enacted November 6, 1986, also Simpson-Mazzoli Act, is an Act of Congress which reformed United States immigration law.


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by Koolcdj69
 


It is a reasonable solution, but I don't believe it is possible.

How do you prove that someone has been here 15 years? How about a 16 year old kid, who's parents claim that he has been here since he was one?

What about consistent residency? How do you deal with someone who is here 5 years, goes back home for 5 then back and so on?

I don't think that it is impossible to deport all of the illegals. I don't think that you would have to deport the majority of them. Many would leave.

How about this:

On X date, if you are found here illegally you will immediately be deported. You will not be sent home for a follow-up court appearance, you will go straight to a detention center and then straight home. This goes for any age, including children. Parents will have to follow their children and vis a versa

Should you be deported, all of your assets, inclusive of autos, real estate, bank accounts and personnel affects will be seized by the US government and sold to help offset the deportation costs.

Prior to X date you will have asset amnesty. You can make an appointment, come in, admit your illegal status and the US government will give you all of your assets at fair market value in the currency of your choice and then you will be deported. Obviously folks would get their affairs in order and time that appointment such that it would be of minimal disruption to themselves.

Millions would leave on their own.

I would then place a freeze on all immigration for a minimum of 10 years.

How about we think about it this way. When we have invested enough to make Detroit or Newark or any number of US cities as nice as Mexico City, we'll start letting folks from Mexico into the US. Same goes for other countries - just change the city.

We have millions of Americans living in squalor in this country. Conditions that are far worse in many cases than the third world hell holes most of these immigrants are coming from. Lets stop spending our time, money and energy on those folks and focus on creating a quality of life for the citizens of this country.

Finally, Obviously you can not deport all of the illegals. You could deport over 90 % off them however and a zero tolerance for illegals would drive the most delf deportations.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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If you read the whole post, you would see that it was made that border security was tight enough so that no one could get through it without clearance. (Theoretically if that could be made possible) Which would mean illegals couldn't get in through the border or overstaying their visa, the two main ways they enter.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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If you read the whole post, you would see that it was made that border security was tight enough so that no one could get through it without clearance. (Theoretically if that could be made possible) Which would mean illegals couldn't get in through the border or overstaying their visa, the two main ways they enter.

[edit on 4-8-2010 by Koolcdj69]



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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Interesting idea that you have, however, I do not believe that is an equible solution as the illegale immigrants have no real way to prove that they have been here 15 years, and if they do, then you run into the incrimination clause of the law, as they would have to admit that they broke the law in the process of being here. The solution is not going to be popular or politically convienent.
Amnesty was done 20 years ago, and all it did was increase the number of illegale immigrants coming across the border of the US. It is not a popular idea nor will the public accept it, as the question is are we not equal under the law? If you break the law, would you like to know that the punishment you get is the same as the last guy who did such?
The solution of the illegale immigrant issue is going to have to take effect in stages, the first being that the borders have to be secured. We can not offer amnesty or any kind of solution without the flow of illegale immigrants coming into the country from being stopped. Then to solve the problems with the immigration system, along with dealing with the millions of illegale immigrants here already. I would say the simpliest solution would be to give them a one time reprive, turn yourself in, get taken back to the border, no foul, no harm on either side, give us time to come up with a solution. The problem with illegale immigrants is that you not only get the good of society, those who are wanting to improve their life and enjoy the country, and the worse, those who come here for more questionable means. If we are to be a nation of laws, then we have to enforce them across the board, no matter what.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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I am one of the stubborn ones but at least your Idea stops the dieing in the desert at the border.
So take that as a compliment.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by Koolcdj69
 


The border is never tight enough. I live in a town with tight border control, and guess what, the illegale immigrants either dig under the border or go around via the waterways.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Let's say they had a job, or resume, or even a job they had applied for since then. This would be proof would it not? If they had a child 15 years ago, would that not be proof? I'm sure there are other ways to make known they'd lived here for 15 years. And yes it was a crime and yes amnesty twice in a row seems like a reward, but border security wasn't beeffed up as it would be now.

Do you even know the cost of sending them back in planes? It's not plausible, not for the reason people want the illegals out anyway.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by Koolcdj69
 


The border is never tight enough. I live in a town with tight border control, and guess what, the illegale immigrants either dig under the border or go around via the waterways.


Did you not see the statement I said, that in a (theoretical way) the border security would be tight enough to not allow illegal immigrants with out clearance?
Be it with 3,000 armed troops or such I don't care, it's merely a theory of a tight enough border that no one can get through.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by Gmoneycricket
I am one of the stubborn ones but at least your Idea stops the dieing in the desert at the border.
So take that as a compliment.


Well, I can't blame you, but 30 million people out in planes or even just dropping them off at the border is not plausible in even the silliest way possible.
It would cost more money and time and make the whole point of getting them out pointless.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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[edit on 4-8-2010 by Koolcdj69]



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by Koolcdj69
 


So now you ask them to admit to the fact that they have been comitting fraud and idenity theft, possibly ruining the life of a legal citizen.
In any case if the Obama adminstration does offer amnesty, there is a good chance that the democrats and Obama loses the white house in the next election. It is a very unpopular notion and to do such is only politcal pandering so he can get a bloc of voters, further dividing the country and leading to more violence against the immigrant community. It is a powder keg that is waiting for a spark.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


I do not care if the Obama administration would lose the White House, but yes you are going to get them to admit they are criminals.
I'm guessing your up fro send 30 million illegals home via airplanes all paid for by government/
No, we make use of these people, make them residents and pay taxes from the time they were here to now. It would be a great influx of money and now legal workforce.

I mean if you wanna send 30 million plus their legal children home, than take down much of the economy based on illegal labor or even housing, than that is stubborn.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by Koolcdj69
 


That is the point, it can not be that tight or secure. I live in southern california. The illegale immigrants are coming via boats along the pacific and digging tunnels under the border. It would be cheaper to deport all of the illegale immigrants back to their home countries, than to achieve that tight of a border control. To do that you would have to: By pass the regulations of the EPA, violate several native american tribes, and construct a wall that goes down about 100' down, and goes up a good 20' along with the kind of stuff they had during the cold war that the soviet union had to keep the people in to secure the borders.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:16 AM
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It would NOT BE be cheap. Do you honestly think these illegals will follow your golden word to airports all packed up smiling and ready to go?

If we were to have 5,000 troops and helicopters along with multiple posts there and it can be that tight.
I don't care how it's done but even if it's all in theory that you can get the border tight enough that everything else would work mighty fine.
It's not an impossible task, just one close.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by Koolcdj69
 


Prove that they are that much of an economic boon to the country. Would I ship them by plane, no, I would send them via the bus. You see you are asking for a perverted idea of social justice. Tell me would you mind if a squatter came into your home, ate your food, slept in your bed, damaged your property and had no punishment for breaking the laws and violating your personal space, would that matter? Would it matter if your family was threatened, would it matter then? Would it matter if it was your credit or you had to go to jail for their actions?
You can not ask a person to incriminate themself, and therefore what you suggest would not work.
And then there is the general public, from what I have read 50 to 70% of the population wants the AZ law in their state, so you give a small population amnesty and they what will you do when those who are already upset starts shooting or starting massive civil unrest? Are you prepared to deal with the consequences of such, cause the population already is not happy, any more and they may just start shooting.



posted on Aug, 4 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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On the surface, this seems like a good compromise. The problem arises when you get into, as has been mentioned before, verification of residency. In some cases, it would be easy. Someone owns a home or has been renting an apartment for the proper length of time. The problem arises when you have a system in place to forge documents for this purpose. This system is already getting fake IDs, Social Security cards, etc. to help people get jobs (or for more illegal purposes).

You also run into the "rights" groups who will claim that requiring any type of verification of residency is discriminatory and should not be allowed. These same groups have successfully challenged requirements for verification in a number of states for anything from voting to gaining state assistance. The court challenges would quickly force a general amnesty.

Thirdly, you also have to factor in those people who live in a community where they are being told that to report for amnesty means that they will be deported or worse. You have to realized that many of these people come from a place where the recognized authorities are corrupt. The idea of entrapment is a constant specter, especially when you have people who profit from the illegals via lower wages, no workman's comp., etc. help spread these rumors. I know of times where people I know were told that they would be arrested and killed by the police if they ever tried to become legal citizens. It's a horrible truth that groups and individuals see many illegals as little more than slaves to be exploited for their own gain.


What, you may ask, would satisfy me?


First, we secure our southern border at least to the same extent that we have our northern border. This is made much easier when you have a partner, as we do with Canada, which we do not have in Mexico. We can't seal the border completely but we can make a better showing of it than we have in the recent past. One solution would be to levy a fine against the Mexican government for each person who slips across the border from their side. Maybe take it out of the aid that we send them yearly. This might convince them to work with us to stop this tide of humanity.

Secondly, allow law enforcement more latitude to check immigration status. Maybe give them access to ICE records of expired visas or known multiple deportees to help the process. Yes, there are those who claim that this will lead to racial profiling but if the check is mandatory on all arrests and traffic stops, then it really can't lead to that at all. This will allow for many repeat offenders to be repatriated to their home country.

Third, make it a felony to knowingly employ anyone who's residency status has not been fully verified. We need to really go after those people who want to employ illegal residents for the cost benefit of getting around legal requirements. We also need to beef up the penalties for identity theft as this will become a larger problem once we do this. It's amazing how far some people will go to not have to pay their employees a proper wage.

Lastly, offer a short term amnesty to those willing to declare their alien status and be able to prove that they have been in the country for at least a year. They should also be willing to cooperate in any criminal investigations of those who have employed them over that time. This portion could be enacted at the same time as step three so that we don't run into the catch-22 effect of having to report that you have been participating in an illegal act in order to become legal. I do not believe that any type of program that requires a person to return to their home country in order to "get in que" for legal status would work. Too many people can't afford to make that trip and I really don't want to penalize someone for being poor.

I feel that this is the basic requirements for any type of immigration reform to actually work. Anything less will only make the problem worse in my opinion.



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