Feds tell immigration officers to treat U.S. deserters as criminals

Feds tell immigration officers to treat U.S. deserters as criminals

home.mytelus.com

The word is out to canadian imigration officers that American deserters from the military are to be treated as "criminals".This is part of a new stance for our border security.During the Vietnam Conflict we welcomed many deserters and draft dodgers to this country and have many fine citizens now because of it.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 3-8-2010 by stirling]

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[edit on 8/3/2010 by semperfortis]

Canada has always been a safe haven fo those who love peace and have no desire to impart others values on anyone.
It is a sad statement that we now have tyhe kind of goverment which has lost sight of this.
I feel this is the kind of pandering that Stephen Harper has been doing to the US goverment from his swearing in to now.
Few canadians are enthused about the wars we have followed the US into rather blindly.
The death toll 150 odd soldiers and one female reporter, may not seem high to you in america, but here in a country with 1/10th the pop. we feel each loss that much the greater.
It remains to be seen just what the new policy will do to affect the very small number of deserters that have entered the country or will in future, but its obvious that for now the Canadian Goverment is acting as a patsy in hopes of incurring favour with the US Gov.PTB.
I am sure this policy would have been highly contested at one time here, but i believe that there will be far less opposition to it than in the past.....mores the pity

home.mytelus.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

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[edit on 8/3/2010 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by stirlingbut its obvious that for now the Canadian Goverment is acting as a patsy in hopes of incurring favour with the US Gov.PTB.
I am sure this policy would have been highly contested at one time here, but i believe that there will be far less opposition to it than in the past.....mores the pity

Yes, it does appear that the Canadian government is acting as a patsy. On the other hand, there is a huge difference, in my opinion, between someone who joins the military voluntarily and deserts and someone who is drafted into the military and deserts. The more recent deserters (I guess you call them conscientious objectors) objected to something they volunteered for in the first place.

I'm really not sure where I'm landing on this at first blush.

Oh trust me Canada will comply, my cousin once went to a Canadian military recruitment center in Canada and he told me that they had pamphlets saying something like "The Canadian army supports all of endeavors of the United States" or something like that.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
there is a huge difference, in my opinion, between someone who joins the military voluntarily and deserts and someone who is drafted into the military and deserts. The more recent deserters (I guess you call them conscientious objectors) objected to something they volunteered for in the first place.

True, in a better world that would hold true, but when you join the military to fight for your country and then you find out first hand that this was all a lie... well you joined based on lies, not the soldiers fault too.
Some people truly join out of patriotism and the sometimes the same people desert out of patriotism.

And then there's also this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Which is hard to empathize with.
Do you agree?

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Star for that one my friend! You hit the nail on the head concerning this motley crew hiding out in Canada and how they differ from the draft dodgers during the Vietnam War. They volunteered for military service, and with that, going to war is bound to come up.

These guys took the road for yellow bellies by abandoning their buddies who went over there who also had lives back home, parents, spouses, and kids. I think this is a good move by the Canadian government. The guys up there now are a different breed than the people from Vietnam who were drafted. One had a choice and the other did not.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Oh trust me Canada will comply, my cousin once went to a Canadian military recruitment center in Canada and he told me that they had pamphlets saying something like "The Canadian army supports all of endeavors of the United States" or something like that.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
there is a huge difference, in my opinion, between someone who joins the military voluntarily and deserts and someone who is drafted into the military and deserts. The more recent deserters (I guess you call them conscientious objectors) objected to something they volunteered for in the first place.

True, in a better world that would hold true, but when you join the military to fight for your country and then you find out first hand that this was all a lie... well you joined based on lies, not the soldiers fault too.
Some people truly join out of patriotism and the sometimes the same people desert out of patriotism.

And then there's also this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Which is hard to empathize with.
Do you agree?

Spot on, spot on. You are lied into the military, and once your in your in. They can do whatever they want and say whatever they want to you. Stop gap is being used like no tomorrow, getting injured your treated like the Uncle who worn out their welcome at the VA. And if you have any mental issues or PTSD, they ridicule you and think your lying or faking it to get out of the war. I feel sorry for Canada, because they are becoming more and more like the US, and if their not careful they will be referred to as Upper US.

reply to post by Jakes51


These guys are our children and our future. They have a right to change their minds and wake up too. And in fact they count more than the corporate Amercian yahoos and real humans count, contracts and paper are for use in the bathroom. Period. I want parents and grandparents to be able to group up and work relentlessly for their kids who havn't changed their mind come home.

Originally posted by Jakes51
Star for that one my friend! You hit the nail on the head concerning this motley crew hiding out in Canada and how they differ from the draft dodgers during the Vietnam War. They volunteered for military service, and with that, going to war is bound to come up.

Apparently draft dodgers disagree with you

Geoff Maillard, president of the Washington, D.C., chapter of Iraq Veterans Against the War, said the refugee board that hears the soldiers' applications has wrongly refused to consider the question of whether the Iraq war is legal — a question central to the soldiers' request for sanctuary.

"These war resisters are leaving the U.S. not because they're afraid to fight in a war but because their conscience will not allow them to fight in a war that clearly violates Common Article 3 of the Geneva Accord," Maillard said.

www.cbc.ca...

It's not a draft but this war was never approved and is therefore illegal

In December 2007, Parliament's Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration urged the government not remove any war objectors without a criminal record, or their immediate families, if the military service they refuse is related to a war not sanctioned by the United Nations.

From same link as above.

reply to post by Unity_99


All politics aside, these people signed up for what is taking place over seas at the moment or where ever else the government decides armed conflict is necessary. They would not be in the perilous situation they have found themselves if they had not signed up. Their behavior is unwarranted regardless of their political views concerning the wars.

I served and these people are a disgrace to me. Of course we had moans, groans, and complaints but we carried out our jobs. All they have to do is carry out their enlistment. When back in the civilian world they can say or do whatever they wish. Or if they are unwilling to fight, the can apply for a conscientious objection waiver. That is usually not easy obtain, but they have avenues to take without deserting. These guys deserve no sympathy and are cowards as far as I am concerned. thanks for the reply, but I have respectfully disagree with you.

Something doesn't sit well with me that one who has decided not to fight can be called a criminal...yep, not sittin' well at all...

Now there's a thought . People change over time so a young man with dreams of collage and a great retirement plan joins thinking when he gets out he is set for life.
Only to relize once he has joined After the requter told him all kinds of lies to get him to join in the first place taht they had lied to him so upon that realization he no longer wishes to fight a unjust war and because he no LONGER WANTS TO KILL he is a criminal .
You know when i was 18 I wanted to be a part of something good and the requter told me the military was ran on what you do to make it good and not kissing but.
Once in i found out just how much of a lie that was . well luckly for me THEY BREACHED my contract so I put them up on it and made them let me out .
yea you sign a contract that says what school your going to and what fild you will be in and even (in the navy) which is what i was in ) which ship your going to be on .
For me the original contract said a school in tenn a accountant on a air craft carry-or but they changed my school and assiment a week into boot camp a week later i relized just how much they had lied and I Got them on the breach at the time no war was going on so they didnt fight it at all just gave me a plane ticket.
I have 6 boys and warned them all about enlisting told them the only way you fight is if your country is being invaded then you fight till the last.
so all you gung hoe war mungers who think peace wanting people are the criminals take a good look at your self all your war is legal MURDER.
Just name me one way any war we have been in the last 20 yaers has made our country a safer place JUST ONE .

reply to post by MemoryShock


Black is white.. up is down, refusing to fight illegal wars is illegal.
*sigh*.. It's a brave new world I guess.

reply to post by MemoryShock


I see your point, but when you volunteer to join the military, you run the risk of fighting in a war.
Seems to me, a person willing to enter military service would have thought about the legalities of war a bit before they went into the recruitment office.

It's a professional military is it not? Then why can't they quit whenever they wan't?

Having served 4+ years in the USNavy I can say from personal experience if you want out, you can get out without risking general court marshal or Levanworth. All you need to do is become a disciplinary problem, after a few NJP's they'll process you out. Sure you won't enjoy the NJP's and the punishments can get severe, once they actually had me cleaning out an old burned out boiler room on the USS Ranger. The pipes in there were all covered in asbestos and all they gave us were these surgical masks you couldn't use because it was so hot in there the sweat would soak it in minutes and you couldn't breathe.

War is hell, some of these kids don't get it until a friend gets vaporized by an IED, then all they can think of is getting the heck out of there. Who could blame them. I get the feeling that things are going to get even harder for our kids in the military.

I would just like to point out that a large portion of these deserters have actually fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. They refused a second tour in or to be deployed to Iraq after fighting in A/stan for there own reasons.

lets see they are worried about american dissenter more than drug cartels and illegals coming in from Mexico.. I think this proves there agenda, I have always said actions speak louder than words.. that and to follow the money.. these both apply in this instance.

Shows how ignorant most of the posters on ATS are. Only 25% of all troops who served in country in vietnam were draftees.

Originally posted by Jakes51
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

Star for that one my friend! You hit the nail on the head concerning this motley crew hiding out in Canada and how they differ from the draft dodgers during the Vietnam War. They volunteered for military service, and with that, going to war is bound to come up.

These guys took the road for yellow bellies by abandoning their buddies who went over there who also had lives back home, parents, spouses, and kids. I think this is a good move by the Canadian government. The guys up there now are a different breed than the people from Vietnam who were drafted. One had a choice and the other did not.

reply to post by stirling


I would like the Feds to face the horrors of war.

How dare they judge?

Go, Canada, ignore what the Feds say.

What choice does the younger generations have when it comes to a job? It`s not like jobs are beating down their door to get them to come to work for them. So one of the only options they have is the military. The problem is, how does the military tell them, hey, sign up today and we will put you in harms way. No, they color it with, we have so many opportunities for you to further your education. They don`t tell you that some of the new lessons you learn is, learn how to walk with new legs after losing your legs to a land mine, or, learn how to work with only one arm, after losing the other to shrapnel. But the ultimate thing you will have plenty of, is rest, after you are placed in a body bag.

So what it boils down to, is, either stand in line at the local buger joints waiting to put an application in, with the hope that one of the employees will quit soon, or just sit at home with mom and dad. My, what a great opportunity our kids have. But hey, they have the military to fall back on....right? Let`s see, no great job prospects in your area, or one in the military, where you take the risk of getting killed. Humm, decisions decisions.

reply to post by FiatLux


What about further education?

Or do a course?

There are opportunities out there.