SOme of you simply don't understand what illegal immigration does to this country

Originally posted by jam321


On 9/11, 19 hijackers had legal permission to be here and look at how many people they murdered.

And the dang Military could or did not do a dang thing that day.
And then because the Military was off playing games and had a big mess they let the city clean up a Military screw up.
And how many civilians died cleaning up the mess, don't forget them.
Or was that one of those jobs the military does not want to do let the civilians and the illegals clean it up?

reply to post by jam321


I didn't mean they all do... but there's always something they can do regardless of whether or not there are jobs... that's the point I was getting at.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by Gmoneycricket

And the dang Military could or did not do a dang thing that day.
And then because the Military was off playing games and had a big mess they let the city clean up a Military screw up.
And how many civilians died cleaning up the mess, don't forget them.
Or was that one of those jobs the military does not want to do let the civilians and the illegals clean it up?

We could play this all day long. Yes, the military basically did nothing.

But that is not the issue. The issue is that regardless of whether one is legal or illegal, crime will always exist.

And for one to sit there and play what if....

will never solve the problem.

Reality is that legal and illegals exist in the US as well as crime.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Night Star

 

How many criminals have crossed the border over and over again after being deported? The same person who raped and murdered people, had numerous arrests and deportations just waltzes right back over again.

The system is not always perfect. How many times have a judge let people off time and time again and then suddenly that person does a horrible thing. You try to make it look like illegals are the only ones who do this.

So because Americans break laws it's ok to let illegal criminals in?

Just because somebody crosses that border doesn't mean they are prone to commit rape or murder.

On 9/11, 19 hijackers had legal permission to be here and look at how many people they murdered.

No Jam, I am not trying to make it look like like illegals are the only ones who do this. It is comon sense that people both legal and illegal commit crimes. My point is that it is unacceptable to allow just anyone to come here illegally. Way too many crimes could have been prevented had our laws been enforced.

Correct, just because someone comes over the border doesn't mean they are prone to commit rape or murder. The problem is that many do, and those same people keep returning even after deportation.

Maybe you live in a nice safe area where nothing has changed in many years. There are too many places now where children can no longer feel safe in their own neighborhoods. It is too dangerous. No child in America should have to live in fear of their lives because their Government has failed them.

No Country has an open border. We have laws for a reason.

reply to post by Night Star

Maybe you live in a nice safe area where nothing has changed in many years. There are too many places now where children can no longer feel safe in their own neighborhoods. It is too dangerous. No child in America should have to live in fear of their lives because their Government has failed them.

Actually, I don't live in the best neighborhood. It is not due to illegals. Has more to do with that drug stuff. At least 3 houses that look like a 24 hr McDonald drive thru with occasional shootings instead of fries.

I understand what you say, but one cannot keep blaming illegals, harassing illegals, or throwing money at the problem.

It will not work. You could deport them all today and tomorrow you will have replacements because the same laws exist.

Sooner or later people will get tired of government spending money on this problem and we will see this problem play out again.

I just think the solution lies in Washington, but those cowards don't want to solve this problem. It is good for reelections and getting people minds off real issues.

Soon a bigger story will come along and this one will get buried.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Night Star

 

Actually the question was if those that immigrated legally to the states feel cheated by the fact that those that crossed illegally may get amnesty.

It had nothing to do with illegals getting federal aide.

I bet for everyone that doesnt care 5 do. How is it being self centered to expect someone to play by the same rules you did and follow the same laws to obtain the same thing? So i guess if you studied got a 2 year college degree and after you graduated they started handing them out for free t o anyone youd have no problem with it? Wouldnt wanna appear as self centered.

Get the F outta here.

reply to post by ldyserenity

but there's always something they can do regardless of whether or not there are jobs.

That possibility exists but from most research I have done if they can't find jobs they go back home.

Sending the illegals out of the country, or even legal immigrants has been done before, during the great depression, and it should be done again now.

Illegal and excessive immigration is the main cause of our current economic downturn, and it is or was arguably the reason behind all the bust and boom economies before the Great Depression.

Yes, allow immigration, but there is such a thing as too much immigration, and that is what we have seen over the last thirty years.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Gmoneycricket

 

And the dang Military could or did not do a dang thing that day.
And then because the Military was off playing games and had a big mess they let the city clean up a Military screw up.
And how many civilians died cleaning up the mess, don't forget them.
Or was that one of those jobs the military does not want to do let the civilians and the illegals clean it up?

We could play this all day long. Yes, the military basically did nothing.

But that is not the issue. The issue is that regardless of whether one is legal or illegal, crime will always exist.

And for one to sit there and play what if....

will never solve the problem.

Reality is that legal and illegals exist in the US as well as crime.

I agree
I am saying we could play the what if all day about if employers did not hire illegals.

There is one fact Jam
More Mexicans will die during the next months
because the National Guard has not deployed to the border.
A Guardsman watching Border could find dieing Mexicans and spare them a death sentence when they are only committing a misdemeanor as you say!

Originally posted by poet1b
Illegal and excessive immigration is the main cause of our current economic downturn

That is insanely idiotic.

Don't be a brain-washed sheep.

Immigrants did not destroy the economy.

Don't be so easily manipulated by the plutocracy.

They want you to blame Mexicans instead of the leadership.

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Night Star

 

Actually the question was if those that immigrated legally to the states feel cheated by the fact that those that crossed illegally may get amnesty.

It had nothing to do with illegals getting federal aide.

I bet for everyone that doesnt care 5 do. How is it being self centered to expect someone to play by the same rules you did and follow the same laws to obtain the same thing? So i guess if you studied got a 2 year college degree and after you graduated they started handing them out for free t o anyone youd have no problem with it? Wouldnt wanna appear as self centered.

Get the F outta here.

Well you asked and I gave my opinion along with what I have discussed with others . Like I said it doesn't really affect me if they hand them green cards while I had to fill out forms and pay the filing fee unless I dwell on that. The kind of people that would dwell on that are people that are self centered.

Like jam said life ain't always fair. I once had to pay a fine for building without a permit. It was just a small modification to my home and I thought I didn't need to get a permit but I was wrong. So I payed the fine and got the permit to continue. A year later a neighbor was doing something similar to his home and I asked him if he had gotten a permit. He said that he asked but they informed him that because of a recent change in law a permit was no longer required.

Was I supposed to get mad cause they changed the law? Should I have given the neighbor the evil eye and cursed his shed? Since I don't dwell on things like that I was able to feel happy for my neighbor and the fact that he would not get in trouble or have to shell out a couple bucks for the permit.

1. Illegals are here illegally. Their backgrounds, sob stories, hopes/dreams are irrelevant to the issue. They have not been granted permission to live here legally so when caught, they need to be deported. Period.

2. You can't compare illegal immigrants to our legally immigrated ancestors who went through Ellis Island and the like. Our ancestors came legally!

As a side note, the immigrants of the past were indeed met with racism and hostility. This isn't an anti-hispanic movement going on just recently.

And also as another side note, our ancestors that immigrated legally assimilated the american culture exponentially more when compared to the illegals, and even legals, of today.

3. As stated before, we don't have a rigorous qualification set for immigrants to apply for legal citizenship. "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..." We have a system set up to apply this to legal immigrants, so people need to use it. Most of these illegals just don't even bother. I am sure someone would come up with a bunch of reasons why a percentage of the illegals couldn't go about the legal process but that isn't relevant. We have the channels set up, use them!

4. As long as we are a capitalist country, there will be demand for cheap labor. It would be impossible to stop it. If you needed a dishwasher at a restaurant and had the choice between person A requesting $10 an hour, person B requesting $6 an hour, or illegal person C willing to work for $3 an hour... most logical people would choose B as it is the cheapest and not illegal. However, a percentage of employers would find the benefits outweigh the risks of being caught and higher person C.
Some companies would outsource overseas if they were able but that can't be done for many types of jobs. It's not that white/black american "aren't willing to do the jobs," it's that there is a pool of illegal workers that will do it for less.

And don't start griping on companies because as a citizen, you strive to profit in life as well. Make a better salary, save money, buy cheaper products so you can save for something you desire later. Companies do the same... higher cheap labor and save on production costs, have a markup and make a profit. Wouldn't you do the same? If you're socialist you wouldn't.

5. If you illegally crossed the borders of England, for example, and lived there not paying taxes, using another person's social security number (the english equivalent), working under the table, etc etc etc and were caught by the authorities, wouldn't you expect to be deported? I would expect nothing less. If I were living in England illegally and they suddenly announced that all illegal immigrants are now citizens and have all the benefits of everyone else, THAT WOULD BLOW MY FREAKING MIND! Man I would be excited but I would think the politicians and even the people were total morons.

6. Yes, we all know that not ALL illegal immigrants are rapists, murderers, thieves, pedophiles, etc and that there are all of those same in the legally immigrated and natural born citizens.The point others are trying to make is that there is a legal immigration process for a reason and that is to try and weed out undesirables (and by that I mean more like criminals). Otherwise we should just have open borders.... and why can't I think of a country that has that?
--- quick wiki check and there are a few but they limit the "open" to select countries.

reply to post by Jeep4x4

Thank You Sir Good Post

my opinion of illegals an refugees is there a threat to our financial well being how much money do they get to come over here an clog up our country think about what could be done with all that money were giving them it would definitly help out our own economy my opinion deport all illegals an whoever trys to cross over again be imprisoned or executed on the spot im more agressive on issues so i wonder what kinda replys ill get to this

reply to post by Jezus


Illegal immigration did not destroy the economy alone, and that is not what I said.

Illegal immigration is the biggest problem.

The fact, are there and they have been clearly established on this thread.

But I am sure you are not going to allow the facts get in the way of your opinion.

Wages go down and housing prices go up, and the banks make more and more money. This is the problem.

Originally posted by poet1b
Illegal immigration is the biggest problem.

Completely and utterly false.

People who are willing to work for less than others is a natural and healthy part of economic activity. It is the free market at work.

It does not effect the overall economy in a negative way, in fact in the long run it is good for the economy.

Don't be manipulated by the plutocracy.

Hard working poor people are NOT the problem.

Manipulative, greedy, irresponsible rich people ARE the problem.

you are right. Ever since Washington and CO. came in. They destroyed the native americans and their culture. Ever since then those damn illegals created this mess we call USA.....

i think the whole "what we need is a great big melting pot" theory is now starting to melt the whole bloody pot.

The fear and hatred the propaganda machine has ignited in such a large population of our country is unforgivable. And the lack of unbiased personal due diligence is inexcusable.

Each person should ask themselves one question: Do I want to witch hunt the illegals, or do I want to solve the root of the problem? This is very elementary. One or the other. Period.

You pick the former, then continue on ...and on...and on...with your hunt. And have fun. It’s guaranteed to last a lifetime. You pick the latter, then you've got a long road ahead of you (and you'll probably pay more for a loaf of bread), but with enforcement, accountability and diligence you'll begin to see results.

You've already decided if you agree with me or not, but please, hear me out. Take this scenario:

There's an Evil Mexican farmer who's farm has been in his family for four generations. He makes a fair living. He's happy, his wife's happy and his four children are happy. When he first took over the farming business full time, things were pretty good, but not so much after a few years.

Large U.S. agricultural companies started receiving huge government subsidies, which were never really intended for corporations at all. But in the U.S., those with the most money get more money. Anyway, because of these subsidies, corporations were selling wheat and corn for considerably LESS than what it actually cost to produce! Then along comes NAFTA - the "magic solution" to the U.S. economy, immigration, etc. This would ultimately prove a failure, but no one would really admit it.

Nevertheless, Mexico was soon flooded with ultra-cheap corn and flour. The Evil Farmer found it harder and harder to sell his crops at a fair market value. He soon found he could not even sell his crop for what it cost to produce. The Evil Farmer ultimately lost his farm, and after repaying money he had borrowed over the years to keep the farm going, he and his evil family walked away with nothing.

Now, these large argri companies have kind of a hush-hush system. They found they can cut costs even MORE by hiring extremely cheap labor - illegal labor. But because it’s illegal, they have to find ways around it. Well, they are already buddies with the government, so that seems a likely ally. And, luckily, the government agrees to turn a blind eye on the companies' labor practices. But both sides agree that this might "look bad," so they set up a system where officials come in once in a while and round up, say, 1% of the illegal labor force and deport them the hell out of the country. More than that would result in a disruption of the labor force and that's just not good for the economy.

But now the company is a little short-handed. So recruiters go into Mexico looking for people who need work. They happen to run into the Evil farmer and his family. The farmer doesn't want to leave his homeland or his aging parents, but his family has been in clapboard boxes for nearly a year. Just feeding his children one meal a day has become more than the farmer can manage. The recruiters promise wonderful things, and so the farmer and his family leave Mexico.

There was an Evil woman who made cooking pottery... Cheap, Chinese-made cookware flooded Mexico when NAFTA allowed Walmart to enter their market...

I do not understand how these Evil Mexicans can allow the Corporate United States to push them into such desperate poverty and then humiliate them by offering them a way out. I just don’t understand how they can take advantage of our corporations like that….