It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

SOme of you simply don't understand what illegal immigration does to this country

page: 14
56
<< 11  12  13    15  16 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:46 PM
link   
reply to post by daskakik
 


That's why so many of their children enlist...

NOT!!!!
Not one of their natural born citizen babies have or will ever serve, they think it's beneath them they don't even respect US culture, and the only way their natural born citizens would ever serve is if they brought back the draft!!!! Their children born here are legal citizens, I have heard them tell their kids "Do not ever enlist in the military, this country is S**** and we are entitled to getting what we want without letting our children die to protect it"! I have heard this from them... you are dillusional!

I served myself 80 percent were white about 14 percent PR and about 25 percent were black and there was one mexican who was legal from generations back...and they were disowned from their family for joining!

[edit on 5-8-2010 by ldyserenity]




posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by daskakik
 


That's why so many of their children enlist...

NOT!!!!
Not one of their natural born citizen babies have or will ever serve, they think it's beneath them they don't even respect US culture, and the only way their natural born citizens would ever serve is if they brought back the draft!!!! Their children born here are legal citizens, I have heard them tell their kids "Do not ever elist in the militray, this country is S**** and we are entitled to getting what we want without letting our children die to protect it"! I have heard this from them... you are dillusional!


Someone forgot to tell these Mexicans that:

Mexicans on the front line


U.S. consular sources told IPS that more than 200 people, mainly ''campesinos'' or peasant farmers, visited U.S. consulates and embassies in Mexico between Mar. 20 - the day the attack on Iraq was launched - and Apr. 1, with the intention of enlisting in the U.S. armed forces. That despite the fact that the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City carried out a media campaign explaining that only legal residents or U.S. citizens could enlist.



'I joined the army to partly repay the nation (the United States) for what it has given me since I was a child,'' José Espinoza, a Mexican-American who served in the U.S. forces sent to the first Gulf War in 1991


I'm sure many wouldn't but then again many US citizens dodged the draft during Vietnam. That just proves that in any group there are those who are not willing to make that sacrifice.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by daskakik
 


That's why so many of their children enlist...

NOT!!!!
Not one of their natural born citizen babies have or will ever serve, they think it's beneath them they don't even respect US culture, and the only way their natural born citizens would ever serve is if they brought back the draft!!!! Their children born here are legal citizens, I have heard them tell their kids "Do not ever elist in the militray, this country is S**** and we are entitled to getting what we want without letting our children die to protect it"! I have heard this from them... you are dillusional!


Someone forgot to tell these Mexicans that:

Mexicans on the front line


U.S. consular sources told IPS that more than 200 people, mainly ''campesinos'' or peasant farmers, visited U.S. consulates and embassies in Mexico between Mar. 20 - the day the attack on Iraq was launched - and Apr. 1, with the intention of enlisting in the U.S. armed forces. That despite the fact that the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City carried out a media campaign explaining that only legal residents or U.S. citizens could enlist.



'I joined the army to partly repay the nation (the United States) for what it has given me since I was a child,'' José Espinoza, a Mexican-American who served in the U.S. forces sent to the first Gulf War in 1991


I'm sure many wouldn't but then again many US citizens dodged the draft during Vietnam. That just proves that in any group there are those who are not willing to make that sacrifice.



Lets say what you post are facts. Lets just assume.

Ok how the hell does it still dispute the fact they broke a law and snuck over to get in this country?

Your like a person caught speeding trying to justify it to the cop. Oh Mr officer yes i was speeding. I was late getting to the Childrens hospital. You see im a magician and i entertain dying kids and didnt wanna be late.

Point being it doesnt matter what they do when they are over here. They broke the law. End of debate.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by ker2010]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 03:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by ker2010
Ok how the hell does it still dispute the fact they broke a law and snuck over to get in this country?


It doesn't dispute the fact that they broke the law it disputes the point brought up that these people are not willing to serve the country and I pointed out that if given the chance many would.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 03:16 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 03:31 PM
link   
reply to post by fred call
 


Wow...$346 BILLION annually! That is incredible if that number is true. We could have a new, $346 billion stimulus package EVERY YEAR! And no, I'm not being facetious.

There are many facets to this that folks don't understand. First, don't think that it's only the democrats that are in favor of amnesty. The whole "Left/Right" thing is an illusion. Internally, they are all back-slapping buddies with the same agenda. I believe the motive is simple; give illegals amnesty and get "whitey" conditioned to it, then when the NAU is ratified, it will be a mere formality. It's the old "frog in hot water" analogy.

The ONLY way we can overcome their sinister, un-American agenda is to get past the partisan bickering and overcome together. "A Nation Divided Cannot Stand".

The republicans further this division by pretending to be on the "conservative" side of the issues. John McCain is a perfect example. He and Ted Kennedy tried to push through a virtual amnesty bill, I believe in 2006. Of course he called it "Immigration Reform". Lets be honest; our immigration laws are fine. Nothing needs to be "reformed". "Reform" is spookspeak for amnesty, period. I can guarantee that you will NOT see an immigration reform bill without either a pathway to amnesty or border policies that are so watered down that we might just as well send Greyhound buses down to Mexico and help them move in ourselves.

At the end of the day, we cannot do anything until we can all quit with the illusion of Left/Right and just be people with differing viewpoints and opinions. But know this, if tomorrow the citizens of the United States put aside their differences and joined up, our government would be s*itting themselves in a big way. We will have taken away all of their leverage. And something tells me, 100,000,000 of us could kick some serious @ss.

Please excuse the rant.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 04:28 PM
link   
wow.

okay listen, why is it that all people who oppose this version of immigration reform immigrant sympathizers? Why is it that the party of no can only say that opposers of immigration reform want nothing done?

why isn't it "sb 1070 or (such and such, other version of reform)"? why is it just "YOU DO THIS OR YOU HATE AMERICA"?


because blonde bimbo fox fear squad talking head said so.


and to answer your question correctly, not like a wingnut, they used slaves because they believed these other people to just be nothing more than animals used on a farm. Only an idiot would compare illegals struggling in a free market to slaves being held against their will.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 05:00 PM
link   
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


Nice link, too bad no one who wants to see the problem with illegal immigration cares to bother to read it.

It clearly point out the drain on government revenues that illegals create.

Essentially U.S. taxpayers are being forced to subsidize the illegal immigration that bringing down wages and squeezing the job market.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 05:04 PM
link   
reply to post by piddles
 


John Bowe is no idiot on the subject. He did considerable research on it.

Have you? If not, you might want to consider you are the ignorant one.

johnbowe.wordpress.com...


Globalization means that soon, we, too, might be working for pennies an hour. It’s like Adam Smith in reverse: trade with people less free than you, and your own freedom is threatened.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 06:14 PM
link   
I understand what it does better than most but I really wouldn't care anyway - I pay a # load of taxes. Me an my 200+ million friends dictate a majority by a fair margin so handle it.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 08:26 PM
link   
Wal-Mart= Save money, live better, blame immigrants.

The finger should be pointed at multinational corporations, like banks. I mean, in a world where Walmart can post $374.526 billion in sales, it is economically more powerful then many nations. Why are concerned with Illegal immigration costing around $346 billion of fake money and its real interest?

I think its easy to understand how, if the global banking cartel wasn't laundering the life out of these poor nations and people, these people would probably be more inclined to stay with their friends and family, on the lands that they were born. If they were not so inclined it wouldnt matter because there would be more then enough money in the local economy to support their personal growth.

There is no natural law that gives any individual more rights then another. There is only corporate statutes that masquerade as law. Whats good for wal-mart is good for America, whats good for America is good for the rest of the world? It is the ignorance of nationalism.

As illustrated by "Modern Money Mechanics" you can clearly see just how fraudulent our banking and money creation model is, as far as monetary policy based of the the fractional reserve system.

Wal-Mart Stores paid its chief executive, Lee Scott, a package with a value of $23.3 million in 2007. Cha-Ching.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 12:51 AM
link   
reply to post by MojosGhost
 


Yeah, the super rich are playing us against each other, but that doesn't change the fact that illegals have become their tools.

It isn't about hating the illegals. They are only doing what the rest of us would do if we were in their shoes, but that doesn't change the fact that illegal immigration is pushing us all down the economic ladder.

Stopping illegal immigration is still a big part of the answer.

It would help if they didn't have so many kids they can't support. They are only putting gasoline on the fire.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:37 AM
link   
reply to post by BluegrassRevolutionary
 



reply to post by Bluegrass Revolutionary
 



What? Yes BlueGrass, our country IS made up of immigrants or descendants of such, and we all know that. But you're confusing immigrants with ILLEGAL immigrants, or at least you're pretending to. 100+ years ago, our health care system was not overrun. Hospitals waiting rooms were not filled with dozens of illegals who use emergency rooms and ER staff as a source of primary health care.

Our workforce is shot, companies and business are either outsourcing or hiring illegals for the cheap labor, lack of restrictions and the ability to have workers and NOT offer them insurance or overtime. Wet have a staggering unemployment rate of American CITIZENS because illegal labor is becoming increasingly appealing for greedy business. Tell me, WHY do we need illegals when we have a ready and willing American workforce at hand?

Do you really NOT know the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigration?

People like you are content to be ignorant and spout of your unfounded nonsense and call everyone else racist I guess, because that's what's comfortable to you (I'm assuming). As someone earlier stated, Mexico doesn't want you unless you are rich or can contribute something to their workforce or their economy. Why should America be any different?

I welcome LEGAL immigrants. I welcome those from all over the world who take the time to learn our language and become respectable, positive members of society.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:57 AM
link   
First let me explain why I feel so impassioned about the plight of undocumented immigrants. Then I would like to address some misperceptions in regards to undocumented immigrants, which some in this thread seem to be unaware. When I first got out of the Marine Corps, it was during the height of the unemployment problem in the 80’s. The only job I could find that summer was working alongside immigrants picking tomatoes and pulling tassels of corn. I was astonished by their work ethic. These people would work long hours for just a few dollars. Whole families would work from dawn to dusk. I was in great shape then, considering I was fresh out from the Corps, and even the smallest migrant worker could out work me! Some were as young as eight years old. Since then, I have had great respect for immigrant workers, as should all Americans. They work harder here in our country than most Americans! I now live in La Junta, Colorado; a town that is predominately Hispanic in decent. While living here I have become great friends to many Hispanic people and I sympathize with many of their concerns.

The best way for a society (which embraces the precepts of freedom and liberty) to be gauged in its success is to focus an examination upon how the least in that society is treated and viewed by the majority of society. Those who live within our borders who are not even described as citizens would fill the stratified space of being the least in our society. Since the beginning of the century there has been a rising resistance to the long time acceptance of immigrants in American society. As in the past, racial prejudices, fear of national security, and the overloading of social programs have become central to the present day plight of undocumented immigrants. The closing of borders will only further propel the countries south of the United States’ border to slip further down into corrupt depressive societies, dominated by extreme poverty, mass inflation, and will inevitably affect the economies, societies, and cultures above the Rio Grande. Undocumented immigrants are people who often are the hardest workers, work the longest hours, while often being illegally treated by their employers. However, undocumented immigrants are often characterized as getting a free ride, misidentifying their ethnic heritage, and an invalid claim they do not pay their fair share in taxes. Many misperceptions exist within the opposition to open and safe borders; these consecutive posts is an attempt to dispel a few of those misperceptions of people who seek freedom and liberty from beyond our southern borders.

The greatest misperception about immigrants coming from Mexico is misidentifying their ethnic heritage, while just embracing their national identity. This happened before in the United States, just before World War II when Roosevelt refused to allow any more people to enter from Hungary, Romania, and Austria, because we just embraced their national identity and refused to recognize their ethnic heritage as Jewish.(Lets not make the same racist mistakes as in the past) Most immigrants coming from Mexico are descended from: Apache, Aztec, Amuzgo, Cheyenne, Ch'ol, Cochimi, Cocopa, Cora, Guarijio, Huichol, Hopi, Kickapoo, Kiliwa, Kumiai, Matlatzinca, Mayas, Mixe, Mixtec, Mojave, Nahuatl/Mexica, Navajo, OaxacaChontal, Opata, Paipai, PimaBajo, Popoluca, Pueblo, Purepechaor, Seri, Sioux, TabascoChontal, Tarahumara, Tepehu, Tlahuica, Tonto, Tubar, Yaqui, Yucatec, Yuma, Zapotec, Zoque,and Zuni Native American Indians, just to name a few. I suppose most social conservatives and other groups who oppose open and safe borders would feel uncomfortable in demanding the government to kick-out “Native Americans” from the United States; it must make them feel more comfortable to use their self-justifying racist overtones and condemnations, or they just refuse to recognize their ethnic heritage.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:57 AM
link   
I find it humorous how the tea party, Republicans, and others opposed to open and safe borders treat Reagan as a God to their movement when hardly any of them seem to understand the policies Reagan supported. For example, Reagan was a staunch supporter of NAFTA and GATT, but furthermore it was Reagan who first espoused comprehensive immigration reform. It was Reagan who first proposed a path to citizenship to undocumented immigrants. It was Reagan who first granted work visas to these immigrants, the reason they became illegal immigrants is because in the 90s the Republican controlled congress refused to renew their work visas (over 60% of all undocumented immigrants crossed the border legally) and so they stayed, if any of us was in their shoes we would have stayed too!

It seems too many Americans forget the many contributions migrant workers have made to their country just a few examples: their contribution in building the continental railways, during the 19th century most miners in the southwest were migrant workers, migrant workers helped turn the desert southwest into productive farmland, thousands of immigrants crossed the border after Pearl Harbor to join the U.S. Armed Forces and during World War II immigrants from south of the U.S. border were welcomed to help feel the need for factory workers during the war, many historians agree without their sacrifices in filling the vacant positions in America’s industrial complex World War II may very well of had a different conclusion. In addition, as recently as the Persian Gulf War, immigrants from the southern border of the United States flooded American consulates with phone calls, trying to join up and fight another war for America. This is undoubtedly why our great grandparent’s generation was greatly more in acceptance of immigration in the past compared to the present.

One of the most ironic points social conservatives and those opposed to open and safe borders make on the issue of immigration surrounds how they spout the government needs to be a “responsible” government in dealing with this issue. The irony is that I agree the government needs to be HONESTLY responsible for their actions which lead to the current plight of undocumented immigrants in America. However, most people opposed to open and safe borders do not want the government to be truthfully responsible for their past historical actions or are just ignorant of American history. Our country’s responsibility lies in two different concepts; the first being historical. I assume everyone is familiar with the term “blowback”. The first blowback began at the end of the Spanish-American War; which resulted in the annexation of over 60% of Mexico with the agreement and understanding the borders would always be open to Mexican families on both sides of the border; this historical agreed openness lead to the present situation with American businesses and employers being more than welcoming to immigrant workers. The second blowback occurred more recently in the form of American corporate greed. During the late 20th century and early 21st century, widespread severe poverty and starvation in Mexico was at almost pandemic levels due to US corporations relocating their cheap-labor plants from the US-Mexico border to Asia; plunging millions into poverty causing mass migration.

Now to further clarify my point, in regards to responsibility, the United States is a great nation. As a great nation, we should also be a responsible nation in accordance to our past actions. In addition, I strongly believe the current mentality of those who just want to "kick them all out" fail to realize the responsibility our nation has played in promoting the plight of undocumented immigrants.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 03:58 AM
link   
Furthermore, being a responsible nation doesn’t mean to just kick out everyone who for over a century were more than welcomed and helped to create this great nation. When did the words on the Statue of Liberty change? Last time I read them they said this, “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.” Regardless, sound-minded citizens on both sides of this issue realize real comprehensive immigration reform needs to take place. Why not have gateway cities on the southern border that resemble an “Ellis Island” type of entry stations for immigrant workers? Although the divide on the debate on this issue is wide there is a common ground where real reform can begin. Most everyone agrees there needs to be accountability of who is in our country and for what reason, and most everyone agrees undocumented workers are exploited terribly in our country. “Ellis Island” gateway cities would begin to solve both of these issues.

A very common question which arises from the issue of immigration is this; “If America has so much to offer them, what do they have to offer us in return for all of that free stuff they get?” This question is answered by quite a statistical reality. Undocumented immigrant workers pay over $10 billion annually into the Social Security Administration. Since this money mainly goes to the federal government and hardly little goes to the local and state governments this results in the misperception undocumented immigrants receive more than they give. This is also undoubtedly why state and local governments are so active in anti-immigration policies, while the federal government has more sympathy to immigration reform. I believe many Anglo-European descended social conservatives realize their British based culture is changing. This inevitable coming change in the racial and ethnic makeup of the population of America threatens their sense of nationalism. This is the reason they spout, “It’s the law, and it’s the law” over and over again. And in this regard of misidentifying undocumented immigrants as “illegal’s”, not all laws are just, that is what makes our country great, when a law is not just we change the laws. I fear some of these insecure and paranoid Americans have a stark comparison to the same people who defended “Jim Crow” laws during the 60s. I wonder would they have had the same passion to tell a “Negro” during the 60’s they could not drink from their white water fountains; because IT WAS THE LAW.

Some studies have shown there are over 500,000 Canadians living in our country under illegal status, no one speaks out against them. Why? Canada has a very strong and a growing fundamentalist Muslim population, but I see no demands for a fence along our northern border. Is this because Canadians are predominately white European decent? Moreover, we will never 'kick them all out', because for one important simple reason the demographic culture of the United States is changing. Soon the Hispanic population will gain the upper hand in dealing with this problem, due to white European descent Americans dropping to below 50% of the population; so whatever tough legislation may or may not be passed by the federal, state, or local governments in the present; it is in reality a little too late so to speak. When the Hispanic population gains the upper hand, they will either reverse or create new immigration laws that will show more sympathy to undocumented immigrants; more than the current public opinion and trend; much like the early part of the 20th century when European descended Americans showed more compassion to the Anglo-Europeans immigrating to the United States.



[edit on 6-8-2010 by AmosGraber]



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 05:09 AM
link   
ya know, it's not racist, or anti mexican or anyone else to say that if 911 was indeed an actual hit against the US from a terrorist group that wants to destroy us that it is our National Security interest to not have all these people just coming into the country without any scrutiny from the gov't.
quite frankly, I tend not to take the threat too seriously because they haven't moved to do this! you want to come into this country, fine, go through the proper channels, get the proper paperwork, otherwise, well, you might find yourself in the next building being targeted and blown up by that funny travel companion with the strange accent that you had such a nice chat with while traveling into the US!



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 01:15 PM
link   
reply to post by AmosGraber
 


That is quite a pedestal you seem to have place the Hispanic people upon.

Is this what you wish for?


Soon the Hispanic population will gain the upper hand in dealing with this problem,


No, they won't, because the U.S. public is not going to stand for it, and the movement to close the border isn't going away until the job is done.

In addition, the Asian population is growing at a faster rate than the Hispanic population, and they all learn to speak English, tend to get college degrees, make more money, and integrate into U.S. culture far more quickly.

Yes, immigration can help the U.S., but when it becomes excessive, as it currently is, than it can hurt as well. Immigration was excessive at the turn of the twentieth century, and that has been well documented, and created a great deal of the economic turmoil of the era. When immigration has been controlled and kept to reasonable levels, it helps, and during those periods when immigration was controlled, the U.S. prospered far better as a nation.

California and the other territories surrendered after Mexico's failed war against the U.S. were never a part of Mexico, and the people of California and the other territories never considered themselves to be a part of Mexico.
This is just another distortion of history. Mexicans are not native Americans, they are the descendants of the Spanish conquistadors, which is why they all speak Spanish, and have Spanish surnames.

The Native Americans were treated far more harshly by the Spanish who conquered Mexico. What few remain have less rights than Native Americans in the U.S., and are treated far more poorly. Remember the Zapatistas uprising not too long ago?

home.clara.net...

The sooner we close our borders and get immigration under control, the better things will be.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 02:26 PM
link   
Those who support illegal immigration often end up unemployed. Because an illegal has taken their job for lesser pay.

Sometimes I thnk those who support illegal immigration want to lose their jobs so they can go on welfare. It probably doesn't have anything to do with caring about the rights of illegals. They just want to get fired so they can file for unemployment.

We've created a Nanny State where it is preferable not to work. Then blame corporations for firing them.

Well, it'll only be a matter of time before all the unemployment benefits are dried up. Illegals will still have the jobs. That's going to get interesting.



posted on Aug, 6 2010 @ 02:48 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 

but that doesn't change the fact that illegal immigration is pushing us all down the economic ladder.


Indeed they are playing us against each other, and we are all tools. But we cant take sides and play the lesser of two evils in a system that is fundamentally evil or at least destructive.

For every dollar created there is the interest of slavery attached to it. If we were to pay back ever dollar owed there would be absolutely no money left in circulation, only the unpayable interest. Every time we post a trading surplus it comes at the expenses of another people, and their subsequently unpayable interest. Only the multinational corporations gain, while the world slips further into debt.

Stopping illegal immigration may seem like a big part of the answer. But it only answers to a symptom of the problem, not the problem.



new topics

top topics



 
56
<< 11  12  13    15  16 >>

log in

join