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SOme of you simply don't understand what illegal immigration does to this country

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posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Jezus
 


Your one line attempts to pretend you know what you are talking about are hilarious.

Yes, that is a serious statement. If Mexicans contribute so greatly to the U.S. economy, why can't they do that in their own county?

If you bothered to pay attention to anything but your enormous ego, you would notice that the recent huge influx of illegal immigrants has swamped the U.S. economy, resulting in the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression.

We were doing far better without large numbers of illegals, and we will do much better when they are gone.




posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by KingAtlas
i like the topic, but fundamentally the largest problem witht the solution that is proposed is that, If you make a certain group carry cards to identify themselves in the country as citizens then to make it constitutionally acceptable, then all People will have to carry cards.

The real problem is that if your born one mile to the left or right of an imaginary line detirmines the futur options you will have in life.

I think what they should ask is if the community will be able to support the new costs assosiated with this endeavor.


I do carry cards and if I don't I can go to jail for not providing information to the police, among those is My social security card, my state ID or license, ummm vehicle registration, I guess that's about it...but If I dont have them or won't produce them or give the police my name I can be jailed whether it be a traffic stop or them rolling up to me as I walk down the street and ask me for thoose documents, I had better provide them!



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Night Star
 


Actually the question was if those that immigrated legally to the states feel cheated by the fact that those that crossed illegally may get amnesty.

It had nothing to do with illegals getting federal aide.


I bet for everyone that doesnt care 5 do. How is it being self centered to expect someone to play by the same rules you did and follow the same laws to obtain the same thing? So i guess if you studied got a 2 year college degree and after you graduated they started handing them out for free t o anyone youd have no problem with it? Wouldnt wanna appear as self centered.

Get the F outta here.


Well you asked and I gave my opinion along with what I have discussed with others . Like I said it doesn't really affect me if they hand them green cards while I had to fill out forms and pay the filing fee unless I dwell on that. The kind of people that would dwell on that are people that are self centered.

Like jam said life ain't always fair. I once had to pay a fine for building without a permit. It was just a small modification to my home and I thought I didn't need to get a permit but I was wrong. So I payed the fine and got the permit to continue. A year later a neighbor was doing something similar to his home and I asked him if he had gotten a permit. He said that he asked but they informed him that because of a recent change in law a permit was no longer required.

Was I supposed to get mad cause they changed the law? Should I have given the neighbor the evil eye and cursed his shed? Since I don't dwell on things like that I was able to feel happy for my neighbor and the fact that he would not get in trouble or have to shell out a couple bucks for the permit.


They havent changed the law about immigration though. See everyone wants to erase racism. Everyone needs to be treated equal. Not give one group a free ticket to citizenship because they snuck over the border!!!

So your example doesnt compute. Furthermore are you comparing a 100 bucks or a few hundred to citizenship in this great country? wow



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by sjrily
 


Why don't you provide sources to back up your claims?

Notice I said the flood of immigration, not just illegal immigration, drove up the cost of homes. Illegals can't buy homes, but they do rent them, and someone has to one place they rent. This also increases the demand for housing and speculation.

It was inevitable that interest rates would rise, the belief sold was that rising wages would enable the home owners to pay the rising mortgage costs.

Not only have wages actually dropped, large numbers of people lost their jobs leading the the collapse of the housing market, which was never sustainable in the first place.

Do you really need a link to the law of supply and demand.

Large numbers of illegal desperate workers enter the U.S., they are subsidized by the government through medicaid and a welfare system that gives them special treatment. This greatly increases the supply of low skilled workers who don't even require meeting basic labor standards.

This increase in the supply of workers drives down the wages (price of labor) for everyone.

People making less wages have less money to spend, so demand for goods and services declines. Less demand for goods and services means less demand for workers, and thus the economy spirals downward.

This has nothing to do with hatred, this is your own prejudice.

Yes, the real solution is to go after the employers as Clinton was doing very effectively. GW immediately stopped going after employers, Obama should be reinstating this policy.

Mexico's problems, like the rest of the third world is far bigger than NAFTA, and have existed long before NAFTA.

About the subprime mortgage derivatives. Essentially, that was the only thing keeping the U.S. economy afloat during the GW years. The whole free market trickle down economics policy simply doesn't work. Without enforcing the regulations, which are laws to prevent corrupt business activities, corruption takes over, and the economy falls apart.

Establishing an open border policy to illegal immigration and going so far as to subsidize it, as has has been done, is the most effective way for the rich to rob the middle class.

Considering how badly you are getting beat in this debate, it is obvious why you want to quit.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
If Mexicans contribute so greatly to the U.S. economy, why can't they do that in their own county?


You can't be serious...

That question is so fundamentally ignorant.


Originally posted by poet1b the recent huge influx of illegal immigrants has swamped the U.S. economy, resulting in the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression.


Wrong. False. Idiotic.

During an economic downturn the plutocracy needs a scapegoat.

This time it is the vulnerable Mexicans.

They have manipulated you to believe Mexicans are the problem rather than poor management of resources. This economic downturn is cyclical but if you want to blame anyone blame the wealthy people leveraging (gambling) huge assets irresponsibly and the middle class people defaulting on loans.

Illegal immigrants have NOTHING to do with this problem.

It would be WORSE without them.

--

As a side note, the reason Mexico is so unstable is because of our insane "War on Drugs"



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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Here's a good study on this, here's a quote about it's author and the link to the full article,

About the Author
Steven A. Camarota is Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C. He holds a master's degree in political science from the University of Pennsylvania and a Ph.D. in public policy analysis from the University of Virginia. Dr. Camarota often testifies before Congress and has published widely on the political and economic effects of immigration on the United States. His articles on the impact of immigration have appeared in both academic publications and the popular press including Social Science Quarterly, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, Campaigns and Elections, and The Public Interest. His most recent work published by the Center for Immigration Studies includes: Immigration in a Time of Recession: An Examination of Trends Since 2000; Where Immigrants Live: An Examination of State Residency of the Foreign-Born; Back Where We Started: An Examination of Trends in Immigrant Welfare Use Since Welfare Reform; and The Open Door: How Militant Islamic Terrorists Entered and Remained in the United States, 1993-2001.

Source



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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sjrily I still havent seen you answer who did the jobs that americans wouldnt do before all these illegals came?

hmmmm waiting



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by sjrily
 


Why don't you provide sources to back up your claims?

Notice I said the flood of immigration, not just illegal immigration, drove up the cost of homes. Illegals can't buy homes, but they do rent them, and someone has to one place they rent. This also increases the demand for housing and speculation.

It was inevitable that interest rates would rise, the belief sold was that rising wages would enable the home owners to pay the rising mortgage costs.

Not only have wages actually dropped, large numbers of people lost their jobs leading the the collapse of the housing market, which was never sustainable in the first place.

Do you really need a link to the law of supply and demand.

Large numbers of illegal desperate workers enter the U.S., they are subsidized by the government through medicaid and a welfare system that gives them special treatment. This greatly increases the supply of low skilled workers who don't even require meeting basic labor standards.

This increase in the supply of workers drives down the wages (price of labor) for everyone.

People making less wages have less money to spend, so demand for goods and services declines. Less demand for goods and services means less demand for workers, and thus the economy spirals downward.

This has nothing to do with hatred, this is your own prejudice.

Yes, the real solution is to go after the employers as Clinton was doing very effectively. GW immediately stopped going after employers, Obama should be reinstating this policy.

Mexico's problems, like the rest of the third world is far bigger than NAFTA, and have existed long before NAFTA.

About the subprime mortgage derivatives. Essentially, that was the only thing keeping the U.S. economy afloat during the GW years. The whole free market trickle down economics policy simply doesn't work. Without enforcing the regulations, which are laws to prevent corrupt business activities, corruption takes over, and the economy falls apart.

Establishing an open border policy to illegal immigration and going so far as to subsidize it, as has has been done, is the most effective way for the rich to rob the middle class.

Considering how badly you are getting beat in this debate, it is obvious why you want to quit.



This guy knows what he is talking about.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by ker2010
sjrily I still havent seen you answer who did the jobs that americans wouldnt do before all these illegals came?


I'm not sjrily but if I may. The answer would be immigrants. The US has always been a nation of immigrants. Slaves did alot of the work when slavery was legal then there were waves of immigrants from different parts of the world. Chinese, Irish, Polish, Etc. These people would be the ones who would be willing to take the jobs that others would prefer not to.

Of course there have always been americans that are also willing to do these jobs but like most humans if you get a shot at something easier for better pay you would opt for that. Then the other jobs that still need to get done have to be filled so the US gov hands out permits to those around the world who would like to fill those positions.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by daskakik]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Whatever, Popeye.

Perhaps you should go beat your debate on your own planet.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by ker2010
sjrily I still havent seen you answer who did the jobs that americans wouldnt do before all these illegals came?


I'm not sjrily but if I may. The answer would be immigrants. The US has always been a nation of immigrants. Slaves did alot of the work when slavery was legal then there were waves of immigrants from different parts of the world. Chinese, Irish, Polish, Etc. These people would be the once who would be willing to take the jobs that others would prefer not to.

Of course there have always been an americans that are also willing to do these jobs but like most humans if you get a shot at something easier for better pay you would opt for that. Then the other jobs that still need to get done have to be filled so the US gov hands out permits to those around the world who would like to fill those positions.


Right Legal immigrants who came by way of Ellis island. Not millions of ILLEGAL immigrants who snuck across the southern border.


thanks



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by sjrily
reply to post by poet1b
 


Whatever, Popeye.

Perhaps you should go beat your debate on your own planet.


Dont get testy cause you got beat in a debate. Your just another undercover open border supporter.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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I'd like to offer the story of my grandfather... I beleive he came here as a legal immigrant with his family when he was a child...if I am not mistaken, anyway, he was of German decent. He worked in the fields, he worked on the railroad line laying the lines across NJ he served in the first division of Navy seals and recieved two purple hearts during WWII and he came back to do all these things and pay taxes during a depression then he finally owned his own land which he and my mother and her siblings helped farm while they did their studies, etc, not dropping out of school but recieving their HS diplomas, he wasn't rich or wealthy by any means and most of his children did not afford or go to college, however they managed as well, My moral is yes, legal immigrants did this themselves and they also served this country proudly in its' defense as well as in defense of another's rights, do you see an illegal serving us like that? NO??? THEN STFU!

[edit on 5-8-2010 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 5-8-2010 by ldyserenity]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by sjrily
reply to post by poet1b
 


Whatever, Popeye.

Perhaps you should go beat your debate on your own planet.


Dont get testy cause you got beat in a debate. Your just another undercover open border supporter.


You aren't being critical you are just agreeing with whoever agrees with you.

Your statement "This guy knows what he is talking about." reveals this.

That long post is filled with fundamentally illogical economics.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by ker2010
Right Legal immigrants who came by way of Ellis island. Not millions of ILLEGAL immigrants who snuck across the southern border.


They were not always legal. Laws were different then. I remember seeing the first nationonalization law and it states that you had to prove that you had lived in the states for 2 years without having to prove anything about entry.

Here's something interesting:

Naturalization Records


Naturalization is the process by which an alien becomes an American citizen. It is a voluntary act; naturalization is not required. Of the foreign-born persons listed on the 1890 through 1930 censuses, 25 percent had not become naturalized or filed their "first papers."


It would seem to me that many who say "my family came and they did it legally" don't realize just how easy it was to do legally back then compared to the present.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


Bogus...if they want to serve us...then we have plenty of jobs for their low qualifications over in IRAQ!!!! Let them serve a four year term in Iraq, there are also low skilled jobs in the military for them like infantry, then they can become US CITIZENS!!!!

[edit on 5-8-2010 by ldyserenity]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
I'd like to offer the story of my grandfather... I beleive he came here as a legal immigrant with his family when he was a child...if I am not mistaken, anyway, he was of German decent. He worked in the fields, he worked on the railroad line laying the lines across NJ he served in the first division of Navy seals and recieved two purple hearts during WWII and he came back to do all these things and pay taxes during a depression then he finally owned his own land which he and my mother and her siblings helped farm while they did their studies, etc, not dropping out of school but recieving their HS diplomas, he wasn't rich or wealthy by any means and most of his children did not afford or go to college, however they managed as well, My moral is yes, legal immigrants did this themselves and they also served this country proudly in its' defense as well as in defense of another's rights, do you see an illegal serving us like that? NO??? THEN STFU!


Illegals are not allowed to serve in the military. Many would be glad to serve the country if given the chance but they are not offered the chance so your point is flawed.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by fred call
 


1700's

Native Americans - hey look, its white people. We should help them settle here

White people - oh thanks.

Native Americans - oh no! our population is dwindling

White people - just as planned


2050

White people - oh no! our population is dwindling

Mexicans - just as planned

Karma is a #



[edit on 5-8-2010 by I AM LEGION]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by sjrily
reply to post by poet1b
 


Whatever, Popeye.

Perhaps you should go beat your debate on your own planet.


Dont get testy cause you got beat in a debate. Your just another undercover open border supporter.


You aren't being critical you are just agreeing with whoever agrees with you.

Your statement "This guy knows what he is talking about." reveals this.

That long post is filled with fundamentally illogical economics.


Hey at least the guy lets people know where he stands. Half the people in the thread who really want open borders just wont come out and say it.

They even defend the negatives illegals bring.

You guys deny facts. And these are facts I dont need research or a wiki page.

I seen it with my own eyes:

1) Quite a few illegals work the welfare system

2) Quite a few illegals have jobs making better money that people here are willing to admit. Especially the illegals in construction. Its not just 7- 8 bucks a hour

3) They flood the emergency rooms

4) They broke a law by coming here illegally.

All these are facts i know myself and have no need to prove to non believers (deniers).

I guess its like a person who has seen a UFO with their own eyes, they cant convince a skeptic but the simple fact is the observer knows what they saw and that makes it real to them.

You guys can deny the 4 things i listed dont happen regularly. You can also jump on a train track hear a whistle and deny a train is headed your way too.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by ker2010]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by daskakik
 


Bogus...if they want to serve us...then we have plenty of jobs for their low qualifications over in IRAQ!!!! Let them serve a four year term in Iraq, there are also low skilled jobs in the military for them like infantry, then they can become US CITIZENS!!!!


How could showing that there has always been a fair amount of illegals in the US or that the laws in years past made it very easy to legalize a persons immigration status bogus?



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