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Originally posted by KingAtlas
i like the topic, but fundamentally the largest problem witht the solution that is proposed is that, If you make a certain group carry cards to identify themselves in the country as citizens then to make it constitutionally acceptable, then all People will have to carry cards.
The real problem is that if your born one mile to the left or right of an imaginary line detirmines the futur options you will have in life.
I think what they should ask is if the community will be able to support the new costs assosiated with this endeavor.
Originally posted by daskakik
Originally posted by ker2010
Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Night Star
Actually the question was if those that immigrated legally to the states feel cheated by the fact that those that crossed illegally may get amnesty.
It had nothing to do with illegals getting federal aide.
I bet for everyone that doesnt care 5 do. How is it being self centered to expect someone to play by the same rules you did and follow the same laws to obtain the same thing? So i guess if you studied got a 2 year college degree and after you graduated they started handing them out for free t o anyone youd have no problem with it? Wouldnt wanna appear as self centered.
Get the F outta here.
Well you asked and I gave my opinion along with what I have discussed with others . Like I said it doesn't really affect me if they hand them green cards while I had to fill out forms and pay the filing fee unless I dwell on that. The kind of people that would dwell on that are people that are self centered.
Like jam said life ain't always fair. I once had to pay a fine for building without a permit. It was just a small modification to my home and I thought I didn't need to get a permit but I was wrong. So I payed the fine and got the permit to continue. A year later a neighbor was doing something similar to his home and I asked him if he had gotten a permit. He said that he asked but they informed him that because of a recent change in law a permit was no longer required.
Was I supposed to get mad cause they changed the law? Should I have given the neighbor the evil eye and cursed his shed? Since I don't dwell on things like that I was able to feel happy for my neighbor and the fact that he would not get in trouble or have to shell out a couple bucks for the permit.
Originally posted by poet1b
If Mexicans contribute so greatly to the U.S. economy, why can't they do that in their own county?
Originally posted by poet1b the recent huge influx of illegal immigrants has swamped the U.S. economy, resulting in the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression.
About the Author
Steven A. Camarota is Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C. He holds a master's degree in political science from the University of Pennsylvania and a Ph.D. in public policy analysis from the University of Virginia. Dr. Camarota often testifies before Congress and has published widely on the political and economic effects of immigration on the United States. His articles on the impact of immigration have appeared in both academic publications and the popular press including Social Science Quarterly, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, Campaigns and Elections, and The Public Interest. His most recent work published by the Center for Immigration Studies includes: Immigration in a Time of Recession: An Examination of Trends Since 2000; Where Immigrants Live: An Examination of State Residency of the Foreign-Born; Back Where We Started: An Examination of Trends in Immigrant Welfare Use Since Welfare Reform; and The Open Door: How Militant Islamic Terrorists Entered and Remained in the United States, 1993-2001.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by sjrily
Why don't you provide sources to back up your claims?
Notice I said the flood of immigration, not just illegal immigration, drove up the cost of homes. Illegals can't buy homes, but they do rent them, and someone has to one place they rent. This also increases the demand for housing and speculation.
It was inevitable that interest rates would rise, the belief sold was that rising wages would enable the home owners to pay the rising mortgage costs.
Not only have wages actually dropped, large numbers of people lost their jobs leading the the collapse of the housing market, which was never sustainable in the first place.
Do you really need a link to the law of supply and demand.
Large numbers of illegal desperate workers enter the U.S., they are subsidized by the government through medicaid and a welfare system that gives them special treatment. This greatly increases the supply of low skilled workers who don't even require meeting basic labor standards.
This increase in the supply of workers drives down the wages (price of labor) for everyone.
People making less wages have less money to spend, so demand for goods and services declines. Less demand for goods and services means less demand for workers, and thus the economy spirals downward.
This has nothing to do with hatred, this is your own prejudice.
Yes, the real solution is to go after the employers as Clinton was doing very effectively. GW immediately stopped going after employers, Obama should be reinstating this policy.
Mexico's problems, like the rest of the third world is far bigger than NAFTA, and have existed long before NAFTA.
About the subprime mortgage derivatives. Essentially, that was the only thing keeping the U.S. economy afloat during the GW years. The whole free market trickle down economics policy simply doesn't work. Without enforcing the regulations, which are laws to prevent corrupt business activities, corruption takes over, and the economy falls apart.
Establishing an open border policy to illegal immigration and going so far as to subsidize it, as has has been done, is the most effective way for the rich to rob the middle class.
Considering how badly you are getting beat in this debate, it is obvious why you want to quit.
Originally posted by ker2010
sjrily I still havent seen you answer who did the jobs that americans wouldnt do before all these illegals came?
Originally posted by daskakik
Originally posted by ker2010
sjrily I still havent seen you answer who did the jobs that americans wouldnt do before all these illegals came?
I'm not sjrily but if I may. The answer would be immigrants. The US has always been a nation of immigrants. Slaves did alot of the work when slavery was legal then there were waves of immigrants from different parts of the world. Chinese, Irish, Polish, Etc. These people would be the once who would be willing to take the jobs that others would prefer not to.
Of course there have always been an americans that are also willing to do these jobs but like most humans if you get a shot at something easier for better pay you would opt for that. Then the other jobs that still need to get done have to be filled so the US gov hands out permits to those around the world who would like to fill those positions.
Originally posted by sjrily
reply to post by poet1b
Whatever, Popeye.
Perhaps you should go beat your debate on your own planet.
Originally posted by ker2010
Originally posted by sjrily
reply to post by poet1b
Whatever, Popeye.
Perhaps you should go beat your debate on your own planet.
Dont get testy cause you got beat in a debate. Your just another undercover open border supporter.
Originally posted by ker2010
Right Legal immigrants who came by way of Ellis island. Not millions of ILLEGAL immigrants who snuck across the southern border.
Naturalization is the process by which an alien becomes an American citizen. It is a voluntary act; naturalization is not required. Of the foreign-born persons listed on the 1890 through 1930 censuses, 25 percent had not become naturalized or filed their "first papers."
Originally posted by ldyserenity
I'd like to offer the story of my grandfather... I beleive he came here as a legal immigrant with his family when he was a child...if I am not mistaken, anyway, he was of German decent. He worked in the fields, he worked on the railroad line laying the lines across NJ he served in the first division of Navy seals and recieved two purple hearts during WWII and he came back to do all these things and pay taxes during a depression then he finally owned his own land which he and my mother and her siblings helped farm while they did their studies, etc, not dropping out of school but recieving their HS diplomas, he wasn't rich or wealthy by any means and most of his children did not afford or go to college, however they managed as well, My moral is yes, legal immigrants did this themselves and they also served this country proudly in its' defense as well as in defense of another's rights, do you see an illegal serving us like that? NO??? THEN STFU!
Originally posted by Jezus
Originally posted by ker2010
Originally posted by sjrily
reply to post by poet1b
Whatever, Popeye.
Perhaps you should go beat your debate on your own planet.
Dont get testy cause you got beat in a debate. Your just another undercover open border supporter.
You aren't being critical you are just agreeing with whoever agrees with you.
Your statement "This guy knows what he is talking about." reveals this.
That long post is filled with fundamentally illogical economics.
Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by daskakik
Bogus...if they want to serve us...then we have plenty of jobs for their low qualifications over in IRAQ!!!! Let them serve a four year term in Iraq, there are also low skilled jobs in the military for them like infantry, then they can become US CITIZENS!!!!