SOme of you simply don't understand what illegal immigration does to this country

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by ker2010
reply to post by ANOK

 

Nip

I'm a Brit, and when I first moved to the US I lived in a community with a lot of illegal Brits in Florida. They all had jobs, good jobs not 'illegal immigrant jobs', kids in school etc. No one even questioned them. Now if they had brown skin...I never hear anything about the thousands of Asian illegals in the city I live in now either, you only hear about the dozen or so Mexicans hanging out up the street.

Tuck

That's an interesting comment Anok. As none of the UK shares a border with America it's unlikely any Brits flew in and said "oh, I'm an illegal immigrant" when they entered passport control, from experience they seem to be fairly fussy about seeing passport, visa etc.

Are you saying these illegal Brits entered from Mexico/Canada/any other border or have stayed longer than their legitimate visa allowed them to?

Originally posted by SeekerForLight
I didnt have time to read the whole post, but if you think for even one second that the slaves in the US are all mexican than you are very very mistaken. Also, how about the people who create the slave labor? No you are right its the slaves fault! How dare they allow themselves to be slaves!!!!

I got a way better idea- enforce fair labor laws? Immigration will NEVER stop. What we do need to stop is the slave drivers still roaming this country. Once again another middle class white collar probably white dude thinking he knows jack talking about how things should be run in your head. Get rid of the mexicans!!!! Keep the slave drivers!!!!

Do some more research. Heres a good start maybe....

berkeley.edu...

You are part of the problem. YOu comment on a post without reading it. This is like apolitician signing a bill without reading it. If you are ignorant to the content of my post how can you effectively debate? You can't.

Thanks for pulling the race card though. That shows a real high level of intelligence. What does my race have to do with anything? Race isn't applicable in matters of right and wrong.

Nobody wants immigration to stop. I think we should do more to encourage legal immigration. There was a time not long ago when the most brilliant minds in the world immigrated to America. Not anymore. These are the people we need to encourage to immigrate. Illegal immigration and immigration attract totally different types of people.

Fair labor laws apply to US citizens. So they are irrelevant when it comes to illegals. If you had read the rest of my post perhaps you understand. The problem is they specifficly come over looking for this type of work. They get paid daily in cash. No taxes. The employers don't have to pay insurance. THey don't have to keep the site safe. Read. Educate yourself before you open your mouth.

I refuse to read any trash coming out of Berkley.

And just for reference, employers that hire these folks need to be hit so hard in the wallet that it isn't worthwhile to cut corners. 100k fine per illegal that is knowingly employed.

Originally posted by FIFIGI
reply to post by DrJay1975

 

Some of you simply do not understand what illegal immiggration of corporations does to the wrold.

Corporations are allowed to migrate to other countires in search for their resources, cheap labour, weak legislation to take advantage of it, but people are such in their countires (global farms).

Either stop USA corporations from "investing" (which means exploiting) in other countires or leave to immigrants alone.

At the end of the day - there are very few natives left in USA anyway - 99% of you or your ancestors were illegal imigrants.

The past is the past. We can't change anything about 500 years ago. My grandmother was a full blooded Crow Indian. So I'm aware of what was done to the Native Americans. But that was then and this is now..

I agree with your stance on corporations. Rather than manufacture in the US where there are laws protecting workers, production jobs are outsourced at 1/10th the cost. America needs to tighten up and make it not so profitable for American companies to manufacture in 3rd world sweatshops. I'm all for taxing the hell out of companies who do this. Force them to direct these jobs back here.

But stopping this is not the illegal immagration issue. These companies are not violating a law at present, which is separate from the morality issue. America should create a plan where US companies can effectively manufacture here while not getting crushed from 3rd world sweatshop pricepoints.

But that isn't nearly as big of an issue as the problem with the illegals and the burden they create on the system. These companies outsourcing manufacturing are still paying taxes and generating revenue. Until the laws are changed their affairs are in order.

Close the borders. Require a valid US ID for any government service. I've never been to a doctor who didn't require you to show ID. There needs to be enforcement. ID to register for schools. And being as most of the illegals are from mexico require ID for Western Union and Moneygram transfers to Mexico. Then enforce it. THe voluntary slaves are removed in short order. Then allow them to properly apply for US citizenship. I propose another law, if you are caught in the country illegaly after Jan 1 2011 you forfeit any future opportunity for US citizenship. Hit the employers where it hurts. Eliminate the illegals ability to transact business stateside. It won't take long.

This makes an intelligent peson wonder what is so wrong with Marxist Mexico that millions of Mexicans can no longer live in Mexico.

And what is so wrong with the Marxist America that millions of Mexicans want to cross the border.

Of course, we can ask what it would take for Mexicans to return south of the border to repair the broken system that is Marxist Mexico. Except that for five hundred years the Mexican Marxist system has been unchangeable.

Instead of trying to fix what has been broken for so long in Mexico, Mexicans want to come to America to break the American system in lieu of more Mexican Marxism. These illegals are slaves to their own enslavement mentality. Their parents were slaves to Marxism. Their grandparents where slaves to Marxism. They have been raised to be slaves to Marxism. Coming to America will not free them of their Marxist slave menatlity.

Them coming here only spreads the Marxist slave mentality.

Canada, on the other hand, has wisely sealed its borders shut. Canaad is holding off the Marxist slave mentality to south of their border.

Australia is another land showing strong signs of sealing their borders agains the spreading Marxist plague.

Either you find one of the secure spots in America to fend off Marxism, or you become an immigrant yourself. To either Canada or Australia.....except those countries might not allow you in.

First you protect and secure your own property.

Then you help your neighbor do the same.

Then you are your neighbor work together to protect and secure the entire neighborhood.

Then your city........your county........your state......

Bu the way, don't forbet Obama's birthday. Apparently Michelle Obama has forgotten her husband's birthday. She's taken the children to Europs.

Shades of the Al Gores?


Happy Birthday from Arizona....card paid for by Governor Jan Brewer

www.happybirthdayfromaz.com...

Originally posted by Jeep4x4
..... It's not that white/black american "aren't willing to do the jobs," it's that there is a pool of illegal workers that will do it for less.

Please provide your proof that Americans are willing to do these jobs. Better yet, I’ll rephrase the statement to better address the real issue: Please provide proof that American employers are willing to pay the legally-mandated minimum wage to ALL PERSONS currently performing these jobs.

Originally posted by Jeep4x4
And don't start griping on companies because as a citizen, you strive to profit in life as well. Make a better salary, save money, buy cheaper products so you can save for something you desire later. Companies do the same... higher cheap labor and save on production costs, have a markup and make a profit. Wouldn't you do the same? If you're socialist you wouldn't.

If asked what I most strive for in life, my answer would NOT be “profit.” You cannot logically compare the primary gals of a company and an individual – unless, of course, the individual’s primary goal in life is to make as much money as humanly possible. That said, as a business owner I assure you I do not value profit above all else. I’m aware my actions and decisions affect more than just my ledger sheets. I do not engage in exploitive or illegal behavior to reach my goal. I suppose that would make me a “capitalist socialist.”

Originally posted by Jeep4x4Yes, we all know that not ALL illegal immigrants are rapists, murderers, thieves, pedophiles, etc and that there are all of those same in the legally immigrated and natural born citizens.The point others are trying to make is that there is a legal immigration process for a reason and that is to try and weed out undesirables (and by that I mean more like criminals). Otherwise we should just have open borders.... and why can't I think of a country that has that?

I have to disagree with most of these statements as I’m unable to find any credible evidence to support them. It’s true not all illegal immigrants commit crimes. It is also true that per capita, illegal immigrants commit (or are know to commit) fewer crimes than legal residents/nationals. This is perfectly logical – Illegal immigrants are here illegally; They do not want to be deported.
furmancenter.org...
www.nytimes.com...

Immigration and naturalization may have a latent effect on “perceived” street crime control, but it is more about national security and espionage, health, income taxes, economy, etc.

Since you apparently think Wikipedia is a credible source (I do as well if certain criteria are met), that would be a good place to start if there is an interest in learning more about the real complexity of this situation. The exert below should provide a good example:

The 1994 economic crisis in Mexico, which occurred the year NAFTA went into effect, resulted in a devaluation of the Mexican peso, decreasing the wages of Mexican workers relative to those in the United States. Meanwhile, more efficient agricultural operations in the United States and the elimination of tariffs under NAFTA caused the price of corn to fall 70% in Mexico between 1994 and 2001, and the number of farm jobs to decrease from 8.1 million in 1993 to 6.8 million in 2002.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by jam321... you should be blaming yourself and the people around you for being so stupid to elect officials who have led us to this current mess we find ourselves in.

Furthermore, for your information, those jackpot-Anchor babies are Americans. ...

Well yes we're trying to correct the problem through elected officials. Those anchor babies are only considered citizens because of the "new" way of interpreting the 14th Amendment. Before about 1900, i.e. when people involved in the implementation of that amendment were still alive, "anchor babies" would have been shipped out.

I support legislation to force the original interpretation: that anchor babies are not anchored here.

We're doing our best, but you must agree that we've been bamboozled by activist court decisions and selective Federal enforcement that goes against the will of the people.

Another way to get some anchor babies out under current laws, at least during their childhood years, is to deport their parents who are here illegally. Do it. It is not breaking up the family; they are free to take their "anchor babies" with them and keep their family intact. But these "anchor parents" are extremely expensive, collecting welfare benefits because of the kids' presence. Let them be raised in their families' home countries. If they are citizens and choose to come back as adults, they can choose that then.

Originally posted by chemistry guy
I totally understand what its doing to this country, I have friends in AZ. They are very concerned and live in fear daily.

Minorities have lived in fear since 1492.

reply to post by Jezus


The only reason illegals are willing to work for less is because they come from a country which is controlled by rich families who keep wages low and prevent any law to protect workers rights. They have no guns, and so no way to stand up for their rights, so the average workers in Mexico are screwed.

They come to the U.S. and work, at what they consider to be good wages, but it doesn't take them long to figure out that they have been scammed. If they weren't here illegally, they would be demanding higher wages.

In the meantime the U.S. workers get screwed either out of a job markets, where if they also don't employ illegals they will lose their business it they have their own business, or just the labor pool in general.

Smaller farms and orchards then have to compete with huge corporate ranches, and are thereby forced out of business.

The same thing happens in the construction business, landscaping, and all other kinds of businesses.

The labor rights established in the U.SA. that built our strong economy are washed aside, and we become more and more like Mexico, and that is the current situation.

This has all been pointed out, but you refuse to face the reality.

reply to post by Ashes of the wake

I always thought it was funny that people got so mad about illegal immigrants when this country was made when illegal immigrants came here and wiped out the residents.

Sorry, but that is just more fanatical nonsense put out by people who care nothing about the truth.

The U.S.A. was founded by people living in the original thirteen colonies, who for the most part arrived in North America from Europe.

They came to the world newly discovered by Europeans for the same reasons that the people who occupied the America's had cam here. Yes, they engaged in territory disputes with the those who had came here before them, and just as those they fought with had driven others out.

This is natural order of things. First Spain and Portugal came to the new world. Spain used its new wealth to try and conquer Europe which lead to a world wide race by the Europeans to control territory around the globe, which they were able to do with their superior technology at the time.

The first people who came to the new world were not coming to the land of opportunity of mild and honey with the highest lifestyle in the world, They we going to try and take a stake in the new world which was a highly dangerous and difficult endeavor.

The U.S. was founded when the people living in the original thirteen colonies declared a revolution against the British Empire, and fought and won our independence. You can't be an illegal in the country you founded.

The founders of the new country then created a nation on the highly ambitious notion of equality of men, which was extremely radical at the time. The U.S., then went on to become the rich and powerful nation it is, due to the freedoms on which our nations was founded. We enriched the world, they did not enrich us.

Mexico tried to establish a government similar to the U.S. but the rich families who control Mexico prevented this from happening, and Mexico has therefore always been a poor nation, like all the other third world nations.

The U.S. has always been friendly to immigrants, but there is a limit.

If you want to bash anyone, maybe you should bash the people who are having children they can't feed, continuously contributing to the population time bomb.

Or you could always go down to Mexico and start a revolution, instead of bashing the U.S. and the rest of the developed world.

i have worked with these aliens many times and once in a saw mill where i was pretty much the only white man there but i say if u stop welfare u will fix most of the problems. i have worked since i was 10 years old and not because i had to but because i wanted the money and yes some of these jobs most american's would not do but i did it with a smile because i was broke!!!!!!i wasn't asking for a government hand out nor was my single mother. its just lazy america complaining about they're backs or whatever and sucking off the bare tit of the taxpayer and if they can get away with why not?.........from my own mistakes i have forced myself to riding a bike for transportation around a big city that has mindless drivers and one day im going to lay myself across someones hood and if im not dead i guess u might as well mark me up as another lazy citizen for that will be my golden ticket to being paid for nothing the rest of my life

reply to post by kingsolomonsgold

You want to get serious about illegal immigration and cut off the source? Employers need to be held accountable, for they are the reason most of them come here. If the FEDS and STATES were to fine businesses that hire illegals, we wouldn't even be debating immigration and could focus on other problems.

Both sides don't really want to fix the immigration problem, they want to look like they're taking a tough stance.

Exactly, go after the employers, and the problem ends.

Bill Clinton was prosecuting the employers of illegals at a rate of about 500,000 a year when he left office, and illegal immigration was slowing.

The first thing GW and crew did was put a stop to prosecuting businesses for hiring illegals, even though it is a crime.

Illegal immigration needs to be stopped, along with all the special subsidies to illegals. U.S. taxpayers are being forced to subsidize illegal immigration.

There is a limit to how much immigration should be allowed. The U.S. shouldn't be the relief valve for out of control population growth in third world nations.

Originally posted by SeekerForLight
I didnt have time to read the whole post, but if you think for even one second that the slaves in the US are all mexican than you are very very mistaken. Also, how about the people who create the slave labor? No you are right its the slaves fault! How dare they allow themselves to be slaves!!!!

So, you didn't read the whole post, but you have a response.

You didn't have time to read it, but you had time to respond.

And to think a lot of people say too many people close their minds to reasoned discussion.

A tip for next time: spend more time reading, less time responding.

Yes, certain minorities have always lived in fear and will always live in fear.

Why are certain clases of people weak? Heck of a story there.

Fear is the sacrament of the weak.

Look at it this way.

Not only can all the illegals move to California.

Now all the gay couples can move to California.

I'm all for filling up California with as much as the state can hold.

1. I don't know how I can provide proof that american workers are willing to do the jobs illegals perform. I am not sure if by what i stated that the burden of proof is on me... but then again, I guess someone else can't provide proof that illegals actually are performing jobs that americans won't do.

2. My comment about an individual's goal in life being for profit wasn't intended to be taken that way. I was trying to avoid my example of "employer incentive to higher illegals making sense in a capitalist society" turning into a debate or criticism about the evilness of american businesses. I meant that people in general will use a capitalist mindset to achieve their goals. Most people, including myself, don't have a goal of amassing money. Most people would want happiness, security in finances and shelter, vacationing, living somewhere beautiful, doing good... but essentially money is a large component in achieving any of those... for most people.

That is excellent you are a good person who wouldn't put profits above your employees but from personal experiences, most small and big business do not share your sentiment.

3. Not that it matters but I rarely use wikipedia and chide students of mine when they use it, but felt that for the purpose of quickly finding out which countries have open boarders, it worked well enough to illustrate that so very few nations use what many people commenting on this topic seem to feel is the better option.

4. I'll fall back on my previously stated first point, illegal immigrants are here illegally. When caught they should be deported and follow the proper procedures to become legal citizens. We should punish/correct illegal behavior, not reward/ignore it.

Coast to Coast recently had a show about illegal immigration in the US.

I think the goal is to slowly erase the national identity of the US to better integrate it when NWO is declared... and it provides effective cheap labour to companies. That is going down the drain...

In Canada we have a Federal program for international aid, putting into law cheap slave labour. The poor is getting exploited more and more... ...until a revolt takes place, everything will continue as "business as usual". Very sad.

Originally posted by 11118
reply to post by stone7959

 

I would not play victim but instead take responsibility on trying to shape the future of a corrupted capitalistic society that divides it's people by competition into classes of illusive weaknesses created by the society itself.

These illusive weaknesses based entirely on paper money worth nothing but the paper itself - promoted by tyrannical media producing yellow journalism, and bankers producing a society based on greed a monopoly money.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by 11118]

Firstly, telling the truth is not "playing victim". Your rant seems to be against the government, not addressing the real issue of this post. What is at issue is the influx of illegal people into this nation which are dragging us all into a third world existence. These people intrude on the American dream of prosperity by dragging our economy back to their third world existence. As far as "classes", well any educated person is going to have more, simply becasue they have the intelligence and the drive to succeed. All that the illegals have succeed at is sneaking into this county, taking advantage of our social systems, and bettering themselves at the cost of every legal American, immigrant or not. I think the legal hispanic immigrants should be just as vocal because they came through the proper channels, proved that they could contribute to this society instead of taking away from it, proved that they had at least the minimum standard of education, and proved that they wanted to assimilate with respect into this country. I don't see where that applies to a criminal who sneaks here in the dead of night.

Originally posted by DrJay1975
Inexpensive workforce.
Don't have to take care of them.
They don't need doctors.
Well, they are employed because they work cheaply.
They don't get benefits.
There is no committment nor is there an obligation to treat them fairly, treat them safely or be mindful of workplace related laws.

When you give them citizenship you take away the qualities that make them desirable as employees. YOu have to pay them a fair wage, provide benefits, be mindful of OSHA regs, etc.. Now they have to be treated like an American citizen.

By supporting their ability to work for peanuts with no benefits and constantly exposing themselves to danger that an American wouldn't, you support what amounts to an illegal immigrant slave trade.
[]
Alright let the flaming begin, I'm sure I'll catch hell about this post.

I'm was born in the US and I've been a self employed carpenter in the US for my entire adult life. When I compare what my customers do for a living vs what I do; I don't get a fair wage. There's no OSHA when you're working for your neighbor. I'm exposed to tremendous danger on a regular basis: sharp objects, deadly heights, faulty ladders, unsafe electric and the like. I haven't seen a doctor in 7 years and I get no benefits. Last time I was cut up real bad I stitched myself shut and used plantain leaf for antibiotics. Last time I broke a bone, I laced my boot up tight for a few months until it felt better.

I work for cash only and I have no driver's license.

So am I a slave too?

If I get a driver's license do you think my neighbors are going to offer me 2 weeks paid vacation next year?

I think if Americans want their jobs back, they need to expose themselves to risk, bust their ass like a team of Mexicans, and realize the work alone is what they are due... not money, benefits, and momma OSHA.

Sri Oracle

[edit on 4-8-2010 by Sri Oracle]

Originally posted by Jezus
Completely and utterly false.

People who are willing to work for less than others is a natural and healthy part of economic activity. It is the free market at work.

It does not effect the overall economy in a negative way, in fact in the long run it is good for the economy.

Don't be manipulated by the plutocracy.

Hard working poor people are NOT the problem.

Manipulative, greedy, irresponsible rich people ARE the problem.

Originally posted by poet1b
The only reason illegals are willing to work for less is because they come from a country which is controlled by rich families who keep wages low and prevent any law to protect workers rights.

The "War on Drugs" is why Mexico is so unstable.

Originally posted by poet1b
If they weren't here illegally, they would be demanding higher wages.

Your blind speculation is meaningless.

Originally posted by poet1b
The labor rights established in the U.SA. that built our strong economy are washed aside.

Don't be ridiculous...take an economics class...

Mexicans are actually GOOD for the United States economy.

Blame your leaders for the fact that their aren't more jobs to go around. Poor management is the problem here, not Mexicans.

It is always so easy to attack vulnerable people instead of dealing with the real problem.

Attacking Mexicans is so disgusting and weak.