The Bible: Guide to Heaven or Scripture of Death?

In America, we are constantly bombarded by the MSM and political speeches that claim Islam is a religion of death and hate. For someone such as my self, this began with 9/11. That day will be forever remembered as the day Islam struck terror into the heart of all Americans and began an attack against the Judeo-Christian beliefs. Before 9/11 I had never been told of such a threat. Afterwards, I come to learn that all Islamic people believe that non-believers of their faith should be murdered. Any and all means should be used to remove the infidels from the lands. Those who succeed and give their life for Alla will be greeted with virgins in heaven. This is what the MSM media tells us.

Fast forward to 2010. After 9 years of propaganda, lies and false wars I have not been confronted by any radical extremists. I have met and conversed with many people of the Islamic religion and not once have I been attacked or called a blasphemous infidel because I did not believe in their faith. But I have been verbally attacked by Christians for not believing. This made me wonder why our Government and politicians would create such an atmosphere of fear and hatred for people of a different faith.

In asking that question, I was eventually directed to look at the bible for answers. I do not consider myself a Christian but I looked into it just the same. What I found was a religion that mimics exactly what the MSM and TPTB claim Islam to be. Christianity, based on biblical writings, advocates murder and destruction in various forms, including death to those who do not believe in the Christian faith.

Here as some examples that I have come across. I have used a Standard English Translation as I do not know much about the different types of biblical translations. I encourage you to look into both the Bible and the Qur'an and compare the two. I do not subscribe to one or the other and only ask you to do so as to gain a knowledge and respect for each religion individually.

"The man who acts presumptuously by not obeying the priest, who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel." Deuteronomy 17:12

This passage clearly states that anyone who does not obey the priest/Lord shall die. I thought that God gave us free will and we were to give ourselves freely to him and his church. Guess not....

"Some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you." Deuteronomy 13:7-11

Do I really need to elaborate on this? Kill you neighbor of differing faiths as they are there to draw you from God.

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children." Isaiah 13:15-18

"I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD." Ezekiel 35:7-9

These are just a few examples of biblical scripture that clearly advocate violence and murder against those who "God" sees deserving. In some cases, Noah, who is the namesake of the "Noahide Laws", is quoted as clearly advocating violence against non-believers and the Law itself is described as a law for all mankind. Including non-Jews/Christians.
Please take a look at all information you can on the Bible and the Qur'an. Both advocate violence in some of its writings, but I would say that one is not any better than the other. Our media and politicians demonize other religions for the sake of generating popular opinion for a false war, to the benefit of only them selves. This creates a deliberate hatred between religions for political gain. Be informed and point out the hypocrisy of others who claim that one religion is superior to another. Do not allow someone’s political ideology to reflect on your faith, or someone else’s.

Feel free to use the link to the passage converter and see what the passages translate to in your own preference.

Pass. Conv
Murder in the Bible
Noahide Law
Dirty Deeds in the Bible

reply to post by sheepslayer247


You are quoting the Old Testament, Jewish Law. Christians are not reconciled to God through the Bible, but through the person of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament is part of the Bible as ancient testimony to the divinity of Christ, not because Christians are held to the Torah law. Christ says that, to become reconciled to God, we need only "Love God and love each other." Period.

If you have gripes with the Torah, talk to the people who wrote it, who are not Christians.

I don't think the Bible was ever meant to be used as it is today. People use it like a destination or goal... never its purpose.

its a Book, that specifically states not to worship objects, yet the people that follow it end up worshiping just about any religious icon they can get their hands on including shrouds, rocks, wooden crosses, create saints, pray and worship to various peoples, pray to angels, create idols out of artifacts, etc, etc, etc.

Justification for killing another person doesn't take much, and when it ends up incorporating your religious beliefs...its a dangerous environment.

Christianity was preceded by many religions ; Babylonian mystery religions, pagan, Egyptian, and so many that came before. Each contributed to the one that followed, it would be interesting to come back in two thousand years and see what exists and what parts are borrowed from the Judeo - Christian religions as we know them today.

what you got to understand is that the bible was probably rewritten and edited heavily, most likely several times. it is well known that christianity was twisted into a way to control the masses. not obeying a priest means death? what do you wanna bet a priest wrote that? a priest who wanted total control over his flock. i do not believe any group of people are predisposed for evil, when it comes down to it the people in the middle east have no more control over what their governments do than we do. you cannot blame americans for the countries policies and actions no more than you can blame muslims for what certain extremist leaders do or say. they are just people like us, except a little more oppressed.

reply to post by adjensen



I thinkyou bring up an important distiction between the New Testament and the Old Testament. I agree that the quotes I referenced to are in the old testement but not all are from the first five books that makeup the Torah.

I was involved in the Church as a young boy and many of these old testament texts were used in the teaching even though it was a Christian church.

I am simply trying to draw a parallel between what is said about Islam and what could be said of "Christianity" or the God referenced by them.

Christianity is a religion of peace not violence. The bible, nor Jesus ever advocates violence or murder in anyway, especially of those who don't believe in Christianity. The Quran however says specifically in it to kill those who don't believe in Islam: It's called converting by the sword. And for the people who are going to bring up the "Church" in the middle ages, that is all crap. Catholics were and still are just power tripping. They did alot of bad things throughout history, but none of what they did is at all represented by Christianity.

reply to post by 2weird2live2rare2die



Very well said. This is a good assesment of how I view religion as a whole. It is human to sin. It is human to look for a reason for living, in steps religion. But is it human to demonize another religion and claim that their teachings advocate murder of those of different faiths when the Bible has its own words that can be taken the same way?

reply to post by ReVoLuTiOn76


I agree that Jesus was a man of peace. But the Bible cleary makes statements advocating violence against people who do not fall into the faith. And lets not forget that the "Christian" God is the same God of old testement. Can you follow faith in Jesus (God in human form) when God is cleary in favor of violence against non-believers?

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

You are quoting the Old Testament, Jewish Law. Christians are not reconciled to God through the Bible, but through the person of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament is part of the Bible as ancient testimony to the divinity of Christ, not because Christians are held to the Torah law. Christ says that, to become reconciled to God, we need only "Love God and love each other." Period.

If you have gripes with the Torah, talk to the people who wrote it, who are not Christians.

Well stated. I see so many times people pick and choose phrases from the bible, especially the Old Testament, and they use that as a basis of argument against Christianity, then in the same breath try to convince me that the Quran is "peaceful".

That being said, it can take a year to two years to completely go through the bible and contemplate the scriptures. Doing a quick Google search of Old Testament scripture is hardly a sound basis to make an argument against ANY book of any genre.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Name one verse in the New Testament that advocates violence in any way shape or form. And also sure there has always been one God, but do you see Him smiting people in the same and vengeful way as He did in the Old Testament? No you don't because He doesn't have to. He sent His one and only Son to die for our sins, so that if choose to believe in Him we would not perish but have everlasting life. Furthermore Christians are not bound by or even have to read the old testament because nothing applies from it anymore besides one thing, which is having no other God before Him.

in my viewpoint both Death And Going-to-Heaven,... are synomious


all throughout the scripture it is given great praise for a follower
to become a martyr, or to suffer-for-Christ... etc

the epitome of following or being a beliver is to sacrifice your own life & blood for the belief in Christ


=what a load of programming... a twisting of higher ideals...etc=


die in the name of a Lord that has no concrete substance or historical record...has only a morality/spiritual position


well then your like the Buddhist Monks setting themselves on-fire...
for a passion in an ideology they have built up in their own minds


hey die in peace ...i sure won't die in the name of a Jesus/Lord/Christ or other designation of a morailistic 'hope'

reply to post by St Udio


We believe in Christ because the Apostles of Christ believed what they saw with their own eyes. Today I would gladly die for by beliefs, but think about Peter, one of the apostles. He was literally crucified upside down for his beliefs in Christ. Now think about this: Would he have done that if he was just making up what he saw. The answer is no, he wouldn't.

Just because you go to church does NOT make you a christian!
Only by understanding God through Jesus can you be a real true Christian!

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by adjensen

 

I thinkyou bring up an important distiction between the New Testament and the Old Testament. I agree that the quotes I referenced to are in the old testement but not all are from the first five books that makeup the Torah.

I was involved in the Church as a young boy and many of these old testament texts were used in the teaching even though it was a Christian church.

I am simply trying to draw a parallel between what is said about Islam and what could be said of "Christianity" or the God referenced by them.

If you went to a Christian church that taught you weren't supposed to touch a woman who was menstruating or you couldn't eat pork, you went to a pretty weird Christian church :-)

You should change your line to "what is said about Islam and what could be said of 'Judaism' or..." to be correct.

Jews come to God through the Law, in the Torah and Talmud.

Muslims come to God through the Quran.

Christians come to God through Jesus Christ, his sacrifice and his teachings. We read the Bible to better understand that, but the Bible is secondary to Christ, and the Jewish law and stories, which is what you keep referencing, are not required to be a Christian. This was a big part of the debate in the early church, so don't think it's just "we don't feel like it, so we're not going to do it."

If you were a Jew, and you wanted to stay Jewish, Christ or not, the Law still stands. If you were not a Jew, you did not need to become one to become a Christian (which sounds strange, but remember that all early Christians were Jews.) To be a Christian, one needed only to follow Christ's two commandments of "love God, love everyone else."

Again, your beef is with the authors of the Old Testament, who were not Christian.

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
Christianity is a religion of peace not violence. The bible, nor Jesus ever advocates violence or murder in anyway,

Matthew 10:34 -

I come not to bring peace, but a SWORD.


Kap

Gday,

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
We believe in Christ because the Apostles of Christ believed what they saw with their own eyes.

Wrong.
There were NO eye-witnesses to Jesus.
Not ONE of the books in the NT was written by anone who met a historical Jesus.

None of the books contains a claim to have personally met a historical Jesus (except the 2nd century forgery of 2 Peter.)

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
Today I would gladly die for by beliefs,

So what?
People die for false beliefs all the time :
Suicide Bombers, Heaven's gate cult - so what?

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
but think about Peter, one of the apostles. He was literally crucified upside down for his beliefs in Christ.

No he wasn't.
That a LEGEND of myth from long long afterwards.
The is no historical EVIDENCE it happened.

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
Now think about this: Would he have done that if he was just making up what he saw. The answer is no, he wouldn't.

What?
No-one said "Peter" made it up!

Peter, if he even existed, believed a STORY about Jesus without evidence.
Just like faithful believers now believe stories about Jesus.
Without evidence.

Why would suicide bombers die for beliefs they made up?
Why would heaven's gate cultists for beliefs they made up?
Why would Jim Jones gate cultists for beliefs they made up?

What a silly argument.

Someone ELSE made up stories and myths - then later OTHER people believed them.

Just like Christians today do - they believe stories about Jesus without historical evidence.


Kap


[edit on 3-8-2010 by Kapyong]

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
Furthermore Christians are not bound by or even have to read the old testament because nothing applies from it anymore besides one thing, which is having no other God before Him.

That's funny -
Jesus commanded you DID have to follow the OT :

Matthew 5:17-18 (New King James Version)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

So, you don't bother to follow the commands of Jesus if you don't like them?


Kap

Originally posted by Kapyong

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
Christianity is a religion of peace not violence. The bible, nor Jesus ever advocates violence or murder in anyway,

Matthew 10:34 -

I come not to bring peace, but a SWORD.

When not taken out of context, it may be clearer to you that Christ is talking about the divisiveness of his message, particularly among the community that he was preaching it to. "Son would turn against Father, daughter against the mother" and so on. Christ is obviously not teaching to hate your family, but rather that being right with God is more important than being right with your family.

Originally posted by Kapyong

Originally posted by ReVoLuTiOn76
Furthermore Christians are not bound by or even have to read the old testament because nothing applies from it anymore besides one thing, which is having no other God before Him.

That's funny -
Jesus commanded you DID have to follow the OT :

Matthew 5:17-18 (New King James Version)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

So, you don't bother to follow the commands of Jesus if you don't like them?

What Jesus says here is that he is the fulfillment of the Law. Obviously you can't fulfill something that you have destroyed. If one chose to continue to be Jewish, one was still bound to the Law, Christ or not. But for the non-Jewish Christian, he is the embodiment of the Law, and if you are brought to God through him, the Law was no longer necessary.

If you do not understand Christian theology, please don't quote scripture and think that's all it takes to make a salient point.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by adjensen]

reply to post by adjensen


I do not have a beef with any religion. I am making a comparison between the bible and the Quran and how we are hypocritical to demonize one religion when the Bible has scriptures than can be taken the same way. The Bible is comprised of both the old and new testements, both of which are taught in Christian churches. I know because I was in a church just last week and the minister preeched from the Old Testement.

If the Old Testement does not apply to Christians then why is it taught in church? I learned the books of the bible, including the Old Testement, from a catchy rhyme in Sunday School.

The ten commandments are a product of the Old Testement. Why are Christians taught it?

Why is it convinient to pick and choose scriptures from the Old Testement to teach Christians but when the word of God doesn't jive with certain personal beliefs it can be thrown to the side?

I am not stating that one religion is superior to another. I am only trying to point out that our "Christian, American" religions demonize Islam but we need to look within before we point fingers at others.