mosque near ground zero greenlighted

reply to post by theWCH

Originally posted by The Founders
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


That's the First Amendment. I suspect that some people need to review it.

And Congress hasn't, and can't, according to the Constitution. But someday the Government will no doubt try.

But what if allowing a religion to take root would someday jeopardize that freedom......As Clarence Thomas once remarked about, how do we go from slavery to freedom if slavery is Constitutional?

[edit on 8-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

"We cannot allow the actions of a few dictate our judgement of a population of over 1 billion. Their religion is not interfering with your freedoms, but the laws that have passed as of late have. "



here it is agian those actions of the few infringed on someone else freedoms.

and in that billion how many radical extremists are in there?

look that what 19 did from where i sit 1 can turn anyone elses world into a nightmare all in the name of thier "religion".

originally the thread was about the mosque........the reality of it all as in any religion

any center by whatever name you want to call it bring the moderates and extremists in to one place............

as with any religion an extremist can persuade any moderate to a more radicalized version of his beleif....

or through any other means to meet the radicals view....

the term cannon fodder comes to mind.

really isnt that what a suicide bomber is??

use it once then off to the next victim literally.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi

 

Originally posted by Big Trouble in Little Chi
We cannot allow the actions of a few dictate our judgement of a population of over 1 billion. Their religion is not interfering with your freedoms, but the laws that have passed as of late have.

Hello Big Trouble,

Can you post a link to a legitimate poll of the Muslin World Population that backs up your claim..... I would really like to believe what you have just stated.

Also, just out of curiosity, what does Chi stand for?

"With about 1.57 billion Muslims comprising about 23% of the world's population[8] (see Islam by country), Islam is the second-largest religion in the world"

en.wikipedia.org...

If this enormous amount of people was as really violent as people would like you to believe, trust me, we'd notice pretty quickly by the sheer numbers.

The Chi stands for China, ran out of characters to finish it. Great movie from 1986.

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi


Yeah, but maybe you misunderstood my question, or perhaps no one has ever taken a poll of Muslim attitudes and opinions on various aspects of Western Society.

I don't recall seeing that movie, but if you used it in your name it must have been pretty good.

edited to add...I didn't word my question correctly.....the poll I was referring to is one that is indicative of the % of Muslims in the world who believe in waging literal war on the West, among other things. Attitudes and Opinions. Questions and Answers. Facts, Percentages, what is going on in the Muslim Psyche? Are there any credible and accurate polls that have been taken on these issues?

[edit on 8-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by neo96


Look we can't be afraid of an entire people's religion just because 19 lunatic murderers attacked, thats if you believe that story anyways.

You look at this place of worship as if it is going to be some terrorist training academy, based on what exactly? Your disdain towards a religion because of 19 out of 1,000,000,000+?

I don't know how many are "radical", but I do know a defining factor in any increases of # of "radicals" do not have to do with any mosque. If anything, increasing #'s may be due to the constant bigotry, anger, a media that portrays them in a negative light, or the bloodshed in 2 wars against Islam.

i have been on my deathbed twice in my lifetime

fear? no i am afraid of no man.


i just happen to like my little cozy life they way it is.

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi

Good points about radicalization, and the younger the people are the more susceptible. I sometimes wonder if American children of a certain age when 9/11 happened were exposed to too much coverage as their parents sat and watched, horrified and if this might not have had some lasting effects on their psyches. You might be interested in this recent study. It speaks of radicalization and what can be done to prevent it.

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi


man what would jack burton do here

I found this poll, I'm looking for more.

However, while acknowledging and admiring many aspects of Western democracy, those surveyed do not favor wholesale adoption of Western models of democracy. Many appear to want their own democratic model that incorporates Sharia -- and not one that is simply dependent on Western values. Actually, few respondents associate "adopting Western values" with Muslim political and economic progress. Abuses in the name of Sharia have not led to wholesale rejection of it.

In our data, the emphasis that those in substantially Muslim countries give to a new model of government -- one that is democratic yet embraces religious values -- helps to explain why majorities in most countries, with the exception of a handful of nations, want Sharia as at least "a" source of legislation.

www.gallup.com...

Saturday, July 24, 2010 Persecution of Christians in the Muslim World: Report

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5790ee57e0a9.jpg[/atsimg]

While most Muslim states have signed United Nations declarations on human rights, they usually add caveats stating these are accepted as long as they do not contradict Islamic law (shari‘a). Shari‘a is inherently discriminatory to non-Muslims and strongly influences the thinking and behavior of most Muslims, whether or not it has any formal place in a country’s legislation.

Christians face a variety of situations and attitudes in Muslim majority countries. The experience of Christians in stable moderate states like Jordan is quite different from that of Christians in Iran, Saudi Arabia or Sudan.

Root Causes of Persecution.......
The first generation of Muslims was a minority in the non-Muslim world it set out to conquer. For the Muslims, this created a sense of defensiveness and a fear of being overwhelmed by the conquered communities that persist today in spite of centuries of Muslim dominance. Even in modern secular Muslim-majority states, Islam and shari’a have such a hold on public perceptions that attitudes of contempt and practices of discrimination against non-Muslims are accepted as normal.

islamizationwatch.blogspot.com...

edited to add....Look at all the spots on the map where Christians are being persecuted by Muslims,.......and I saw a another Beast rising out of the Earth....Apocalypse 13:1....You can see the tail of the monster down around New Zealand.....It sort of looks like it's turning into a dinosaur or a behemoth on the map, with the small head of the brontosaurus in Cuba, and Central and South America....Now just imagine its long skinny neck stretching across the Atlantic connecting the head to the body.....interesting, yes?

[edit on 9-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth



read through the isreali flotilla thread to see the hypocrisy

reply to post by neo96

Originally posted by neo96
read through the isreali flotilla thread to see the hypocrisy

I was in one of those threads a while back, I know what you mean.

Originally posted by neo96
correct me if im wrong here but flying planes in to buildings killing people is infringing on the rights of others.

Yeah, that's called murder.

As I already said, you're allowed to believe whatever you want. Although, if you commit crimes or infringe upon the rights of others, then you deal with the law.

The actions of SOME Muslims do not apply to ALL Muslims. Not ALL Muslims have committed murder, only SOME. You can't punish the whole for the actions of a few.

[edit on 9-8-2010 by PieKeeper]

reply to post by PieKeeper


and the law approach has worked out so well hasnt it.


likewise man your free to believe whatever you want as well...


we both know where we stand here thanks for posting and contributing to the thread:p

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Adevoc, I seriously doubt that our secular overlords will ever gain enough power to prevent churches, mosques, synagogues, and other houses of worship from thriving in America. Over 90% of the people in the country subscribes to some form of religion. Nobody will ever let that happen.

Gosh, ya think? If you really think that I am worried about the US doing away with religion then you are not paying attention to what I am posting.

Sure they have taken prayer out of the public schools and whatnot, but as with the mosque, these are matters of separation of church and state.

They have take what out of what?

No one wants to see taxpayer dollars go to the Imam to further his secretive funding for the mosque...I wish you could prove me wrong on this

Why should I prove you wrong on this? Who is making that argument? I only see people opposing the mosque going up altogether. If it is a matter of tax dollars, that is a different issue, no?

But don't worry Adevoc, The 80% of the country who are Christians will never allow what you are talking about to happen.....

You really did not understand anything in my post, did you? That and the fact that you just made that 80% up or pulled it from your underpants makes it a little hard to take this seriously.

Hell, we all need Satanism too. Without you guys, we will have no antagonist to vilify, like Satan, who is your lord and master I presume.

Respectfully.

You assume wrong and you are doing a great job vilifying Muslims, you do not need anything I have.

Originally posted by neo96
correct me if im wrong here but flying planes in to buildings killing people is infringing on the rights of others.

I am pretty sure that is already against the law so your argument is kind of silly. Do you need a new law to specifically spell it out that way or are hijacking and murder laws good enough for you the way we have them?

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Hello Big Trouble,

Can you post a link to a legitimate poll of the Muslin World Population that backs up your claim..... I would really like to believe what you have just stated.

Also, just out of curiosity, what does Chi stand for?

Really? You cannot find a poll that shows over 1 billion Muslims are not terrorists because of 9/11? It is right next to the "poll" that shows all Catholics are not child rapists. Should be easy to spot.

A Muslim victim of 9/11: 'Build your mosque somewhere else'

www.washingtonpost.com...

I know Ground Zero is not mine alone; I must share this sanctuary with tourists, politicians, anyone who chooses to come, whatever their motivations or intentions. But a mosque nearby -- even a proposed one -- is already transforming the site from a sacred ground for reflection, so desperately needed by the families who lost loved ones, to a battleground for religious and political ideologies. So many people from different nationalities and religions were killed that day. This site should be a neutral place for all to come in peace and remember. I believe my mother would have thought so as well.

Next Neda Bolourchi explains why she and her family moved to America.

The Iranian revolution compelled my family to flee to America when I was 12 years old. Yet, just over two decades later, the militant version of our faith caught up with us on a September morning. I still identify as a Muslim. When you are born into a Muslim family, there is no way around it, no choices available: You are Muslim. I am not ashamed of my faith, but I am ashamed of what is done in its name.

She has more to say of importance than what I posted on here. I feel she shows great courage and class when writing this.

It would be great to hear from more American Muslims regardless of their position.

sl

[edit on 9-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae
You assume wrong and you are doing a great job vilifying Muslims, you do not need anything I have.

I am not trying to vilify Muslims, they do a hell of a job vilifying themselves. Between them and their supporters, they are doing just fine at causing suspicion and fear among the masses.

www.rasmussenreports.com...

reply to post by PieKeeper


Would be sort of like people in the Middle East blaming all Christians for the murders of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans because some Christians state that they're doing it for god and using weapons with annotations to bible verses on them? I hear those invaders use churches and military bases to recruit and train their extremists..even bases right in the Middle East.