mosque near ground zero greenlighted

This first link has a lot of "FACTS" in it.

www.wtc911.us...
Facts About The Victims Of 9/11
LOSS OF LIFE ON 9/11
People from 83 different countries died in the attacks on the World Trade Center.

Seven in 10 Americans say they have experienced depression since the attacks. New York State Office of Mental Health estimates more than 33,000 showed symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder.

--------------------------------------
www.newsday.com...
More remains found at WTC site June 22, 2010

City officials said yesterday that they have completed the latest sifting of newly uncovered World Trade Center debris, resulting in the finding of 72 human remains.

In a report sent to Mayor Michael Bloomberg, city officials said the latest finds from the sifting completed June 18 at the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island brings to 1,845 the "potential" human remains found in an expanded...

*note: the above link is a free site but I will have to subscribe to it to get the rest of the story*
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en.wikipedia.org...
I know this is wikipedia (link above) but it is packed with information

Some might be able to live a moment through what the families have been living with for a decade now, others might spew a lot of negative for this.

P.S. crazydaisy your welcome


[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Believers! Wage war against the Infidels living in your neighborhood....Qur'an 9:123

You know what New Yorkers?.....If you want this aberration in your town, go for it.....I wont speak out against it anymore.

I wish you luck.

edited to add..... O believers! only they who join gods with God are unclean! Let them not, therefore, after this their year, come near the mosque.....Qur'an 9:28

[edit on 5-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

There are plenty of lines in the Qur'an about peace and such like, and allowing anyone who is interested in Islam study etc etc ... It's not different from any other holy book really in this respect.

Muhammad often spared his enemies, and made peace with them to ensure the spread and adoption of Islam.

It's a brave (possibly not smart) move to put a Mosque there. They're going to be under a lot of pressure and will have to be really progressive with how they handle the public. I hope New Yorkers can handle this though and perhaps we can all start healing.

9/11 was *meant* to cause a rift. The people that did it (regardless of who you think it is) know there are Muslims *everywhere* ... Lets not give them what they want.

Ground Zero map

uppershelf.com...
or
Ground Zero map courtesy www.wirednewyork.com

If it's possible I hope someone could post the picture of the map (the first link)


I'm adding these links on Feisal Abdul Rauf, I posted before but this is a very large thread so I will add them here where they are closer to the other links added today.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.redstate.com...


If you choose to look at my recent posts you will see this is not just a New York issue, it's much larger than that imo.

You decide for yourself, all by yourself

I hope the questions continue and we can gather as much information as we can in order to be in the know.



[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Yes. Some relatives of the people who died on 9/11 are very hurt by the idea of this Islamic center being built near ground zero. Many people have very strong and very valid feelings of hurt and outrage, This is heart wrenching and understandable.

But don't these feelings also only makes sense if people believe that it was all of Islam and not just a radical, militant, extremist element thereof that perpetrated a crime on that day? It was not the people of this community who committed this crime. This center is not being built by al Qaeda. It is being built by a moderate imam who has spent years in this community trying to improve and heal the community, who was there on 9/11 passing out water.

And while the people in opposition to this center or in opposition to simply its location, have an emotional argument, this has grown beyond that to the point of being a danger because it's having unintended (or some would argue intended) consequences. It's attracting people who don't understand to take radical stands of their own. This is evidenced on these very boards and on countless blogs online and even in the MSM.

It's turning this into so much more. We now have the Islamophobes, opportunists, politicians, he simply ignorant, and just plain haters coming out of the woodwork to proclaim their indignation, many times being armed with very few "facts," most of which can be directly traced to two sources. It's turning loud and it's turning ugly and it's looking like hate, whether some would prefer to deny that or not.

And the more hate or perceived hate there is put out there, by issues like this one or similar issues like a church burning the Qu'ran or Tea Partiers protesting mosques in their neighborhoods, the more home-grown terrorism there will be. We're already seeing evidence of this (Fort Hood, Times Square). We must ask ourselves why it is happening and where it will end.

I can't even imagine how it must feel to be among the millions of Muslims living in America watching this. American citizens whose families in many cases have been hear for generations. Or even Muslims from other countries watching this unfold. I know they understand the reason at its most basic level...I just hope they understand all the consequential reactions too.

Peace.

[edit on 8/5/2010 by ~Lucidity]

the common denomiator there is the fort hood shooter was actually trying to communicate with al queda.

the time square bomber was going to pakistan- the presumed home of bin laden and received training there.


the thing the links it all together is islam or their interpretations of it.

it pretty much boils downs to how liberals feel about christians( we all have heard them use the terms like " jesus freak" " bible thumper" etc)

more and more people are weary of muslims.

do we have good reasons- we actually do because of what they can do.

first wtc attack, 9-11, uss cole, kobar towers, lebanaon,etc those are the reasons im my mind

is it right? no but.....

im one of those people if you leave me alone i will leave you alone.

but if you continue to walk all over me......thats when i start to move.

im more content to just sit here in my own little world- simple fact some people out there wont let me.




[edit on 5-8-2010 by neo96]

I just want to add in this link:

9/11 Families Group Announces Support for Islamic Cultural Center in Lower Manhattan

It's from May, so not new. But I don't think I saw it yet in this particular thread.

I also want to thank LifeInDeath for the Google street view link given in this post. I think that might be more helpful than regular maps to people who've never been to the neighborhood.

reply to post by americandingbat


Awesome, thank you americandingbat.

I hope more contribute links, updates, questions, discussions ect.


[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

reply to post by sweetliberty


here are a couple more, from the NYTimes:

The Park51 Topics Page, with links to a number of articles.

A 2004 profile of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

An article questioning what belongs near Ground Zero

And some stats: the neighborhood of Tribeca is less than 1/2 square mile. The population density is more than 31,000 people per square mile, and that doesn't even include people who come into the neighborhood for work. The Imam has had a small mosque there for 27 years. The supporters of the new community center include Episcopalian, Lutheran, and Presbyterian churches and seminaries, and synagogues.

[edit on 8/5/2010 by americandingbat]

i read those links and what i come away with it is:

any notice how pro muslim it was?

to me it was like a proganda piece



look at how conservative people are treated in the media
look at those articles.


i still think that guy is someone to be watched and watched closly.

it seriously reminds me of how obama was treated by the left wing media outlets.

and look at where we are now


i definatley want no part of that guy or what he has to say.



.........." wolves do come in sheeps clothing.........." theres a reason that saying has come into being

[edit on 5-8-2010 by neo96]

reply to post by americandingbat

He condemns suicide bombings and all violence carried out in the name of religion. He meets regularly with Christian and Jewish leaders, not only to forge a common front but also to explain his belief that Islamic terrorists do not come from another moral universe -- that they arise from oppressive societies that he feels Washington had a hand in creating.

From the second link...there it is again, that common thread. The Imam is being vilified for quotes taken out of context about dialog. People know better, especially other religious leaders in NY, who have worked with him for years and back him in his project. That's what matters. This man who has lived there for 45 years in peace should NOT have to explain himself to ignorant mobs.

[I see the article in the Times hasn't corrected the ADL's stance on the project either. (The ADL does not oppose the project. Their stance is actually that they would rather it be built elsewhere but they support the right of these people to build it anywhere.)]

[edit on 8/5/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by operation mindcrime


OK, I said I'd get back to you. I don't think there will be a problem. Seems NYers are much cooler about this than others. Someone from out of the city might drive that UPS truck but that would be a whacko that would be doing it where he could anyway.

hmmmm good read here.............

www.danielpipes.org...

"With the exception of the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995, notes Al-Qaeda authority Rohan Gunaratna, all major terrorist attacks of the past decade in the West have been carried out by immigrants. A closer look finds that these were not just any immigrants but invariably from a specific background: Of the 212 suspected and convicted terrorist perpetrators during 1993-2003, 86% were Muslim immigrants and the remainder mainly converts to Islam. "In Western countries jihad has grown mainly via Muslim immigration,"


its been said the imam words have been taken out of context, but we do not know what this guy privately thinks.


the odds are what you see isnt what you get with this guy.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by neo96]

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
Bravery or stupidity....it kinda depends on your point of reference....

Peace

It depends on ones mindset. One can keep ones ideals and be wary. That's brave. One can change ones mindset because one's scared. That's not brave but it is stupid. America never meant living in fear, until recently.

Originally posted by neo96
"In Western countries jihad has grown mainly via Muslim immigration,"


its been said the imam words have been taken out of context, but we do not know what this guy privately thinks.

A lot about Islam gets taken out of context. Jihad for example isn't a "war against the infidels", it means "struggle" and it is mainly about ones struggle with ones human nature against sin.

Edit to add: It's the extremists that have perverted the meaning.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by intrepid]

reply to post by neo96

Instead of speculating on a what a man's private thoughts might be, neo, look at and read about what all the religious leaders in NYC who have worked with this neighbor and man for decades and support this effort say. Links have been provided for you. Deny ignorance. Seriously.



[edit on 8/5/2010 by ~Lucidity]

hmmmm you get away with calling me a pissant then you come back and edit the post.

then you appologize to everyone but me.

i want no part of anything you have to say....

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by neo96

 

Instead of speculating on a what a man's private thoughts might be, neo, look at and read about what all the religious leaders in NYC who have worked with this neighbor and man for decades and support this effort say. Links have been provided for you. Deny ignorance. Seriously.



[edit on 8/5/2010 by ~Lucidity]

you mean those religious leaders that everyone thought they knew and who ends up being pedophiles...etc.....


i see what your saying man..... specualtion or not noone is ever what they seem

you can spend 30 years thinking you know some and sometimes it turns out noone knows them at all.

Originally posted by neo96
hmmmm you get away with calling me a pissant then you come back and edit the post.

then you appologize to everyone but me.

i want no part of anything you have to say....

Well what did you think would happen when you threaten someone. A pat on the head and a cookie?

OK, can we continue?

I see so many who are unwilling to use common sense to see this issue with open eyes. So lets target the points in all your straw-man arguments. First freedom of religion is a two way street, everyone has the freedom to "practice" religion of their choosing, not build things practice. Also everyone has the freedom to not be forced into accommodating or having someones religion forced upon them because they have the right to believe as they choose.

This "mosque" being built isn't a protected right, nowhere in the constitution does it say you have a right to build anything just to practice your chosen religion. Next is the argument of an individuals attachment to the tragic events of ground zero.

No one has a right to demand proof that someone was affected in anyway by those events, nor are they required to prove they have mental, emotional or physical pain from those events. If someone has been affected by it leave it at that don't torment your countrymen/women for your own personal argument, playing devils advocate at the expense of others is just repaulting.

@lucidity- I didn't mention anything about "families" nor did I ever say I was speaking on behalf of a group. Don't make assumptions if you didn't comprehend what I posted. Ask for clarification if you need it I'd be happy to explain anything you misunderstood.

What are the benefits of building this mosque, what significance does it have to that specific location. None, that is except for the obvious to basically pour salt on a wound and stick a dagger in and twist to cause more pain to those already suffering. The plan is being rushed through the political channels without regard for what the American society wants.

Most, if not all, people against the building of the mosque are not anti Islam or anti Muslim. They simply do not want another reminder of the pain they live with, or through their empathy for others understanding the suffering of others and standing up for those who cannot voice their objections.

Mod Note

The personal sniping stops now please.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.