mosque near ground zero greenlighted

I've noticed a lot of people would like some context as to what the neighborhood is like where this community center is set to be located and it's relationship physically/geographically to Ground Zero.

The rundown Burlington Coat Factory building in this Google Street View link is where the place it set to be built.

I did a search for directions to 6 World Trade. If you navigate in Street View you can easily see how it will look for anyone walking to the WTC site (just go west on Park Place and then turn south on West Broadway and you'll get to the WTC site, or follow the walking directions which goes another way also to the site). I provide this so people who don't know the neighborhood can have some context.

The building is not on the WTC site, as you can see, and it's not even visible from the site. The distance is not large, but then again nothing in New York is a great distance away - most of Manhattan is within walking distance to about 1/2 of the rest of Manhattan and especially in this section of New York City, everything is very densely packed.

In the end, all of the yelling and screaming about all this is pointless. There is no legal basis for denying building permits for this place. It fits within zoning regulations, presumably their plans are within accepted building codes and they've followed all procedure to secure the right to build it. Beyond that, the only way it could be denied is by breaking the law as laid down in the Constitution and denying them based on their religious affiliation. Any such move would be stricken down by the courts after a lengthy and expensive court battle - one that the municipality would lose. The municipality has rendered its decision, one that it has full rights to make and nobody outside of New York has any rights to interfere.

[edit on 8/5/2010 by LifeInDeath]

reply to post by sdcigarpig

I said it doesn't matter because you appear to have your mind made up. I have not yet come to that conclusion. So far, I don't see anything alarming or nefarious. And again, I'm thinking that you're not reading the entire thread.

The Japanese issue was described and discussed already a few pages back.

In addition, you do realize we can read the same articles and listen to the same people you are? We know the talking points. We want more facts and not just viral opinions being repeated by people who can't even discuss them to a level that would "convince" a lot of us of anything.

And this particular one (the Japanese) came straight from Shoebat, who is politically entrenched and gets paid for his "opinions" and speeches, which the Zionists appear to be embracing, and which appear to be a lot of the origins of the talking points on this issue.

Many of us understand how these kinds of things prey on emotions and go viral to infiltrate the consciousness. The difference with some is that they try to look at and weigh both sides and understand before jumping aboard. Funny thing, I usually wind up somewhere in the middle. Sort of like the ADL's real stance (not their misinterpreted one jumped on by the "anti" side here.) Peace.

reply to post by Oneolddude

I'd say Pat Robertson jumping into the fray with yet another lawsuit/demand for hearing to attempt to block the building (did I read that somewhere) might lend a little credence or at least the perception of it to the religion against religion battle.

reply to post by Common Good

Who said ALL New Yorkers? There are clearly some who are against it and clearly some who are not. A little perspective here.

You may feel that New York "belongs to the nation" or however you put it, but the people of New York have and should have the final say. They've lived in this neighborhood and the people who will buld this center are their NEIGHBORS. And the center will be open to ALL the people of the community and New York.

reply to post by LurkingSleipner

Let's hear from everyone before leaping to conclusions, shall we? I personally know two families who take NO issue with this project. And from that I can only deduce that there are more of the same. Using the names of ALL the families to invoke emotion is not fair. Stop it.

As, americandingbat said, "I can't speak for all New Yorkers, only myself. But I know how I feel: resentful that what happened here is being used for political manipulation yet again by those who generally want nothing to do with the city."

A lot of us both from New York and from all over the country see the political manipulation here. And resent it. The way this is being USED, to sell books, sell speeches, gain political favor and votes, and create an enemy and bigotry is a bigger travesty than any Islamic community center could ever be.

Believers! Wage war against the Infidels living in your neighborhood....Qur'an 9:123

You know what New Yorkers?.....If you want this aberration in your town, go for it.....I wont speak out against it anymore.

I wish you luck.

edited to add..... O believers! only they who join gods with God are unclean! Let them not, therefore, after this their year, come near the mosque.....Qur'an 9:28

[edit on 5-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

You appear to be taking things very literally from a book so old and has so many translation.

Scholars dedicate their lives to deciphering true meanings of things in historical and contextual perspective. Even I can look at that and interpret it a few ways...even the translation...and assume that in the actual translation there were probably some decisions to make as to the meaning.

Cherry picking is fun!

You know who else cherry picks this way? Radical extremists who think their religion is telling them to kill people or who want to use the twisted, misinterpreted words to make excuses for them or support a point they think they have.

Thankfully, the more sane people and followers (the VAST majority) do not do this.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Hogwash!......It's like the old joke about O.J.....if they had him committing the murders on tape, there still wouldn't be enough evidence!

If it looks like a duck, flaps its wings like a duck, quacks like a duck......its a friggin duck!......not a goddamn goose!.....just saying.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Okay. Now where's that crystal ball again?

I really need to know if the Yankees are going to come back on the Rays.

reply to post by ~Lucidity



If I were to wager, I'd bet on the Yankees.

But I'd be more concerned about the Red Sox than the Rays

Should a Mosque Be Built Near Ground Zero? (I googled that question to see if I could find opinions)

politics.usnews.com...
Should a Mosque Be Built Near Ground Zero?
Should It Be Built?
21.83% Yes
78.17% No
This from US News & World Report
Thursday, August 5, 2010


learning.blogs.nytimes.com...-28434
Bill Doyle, whose 25-year-old son, Joseph, was killed in the attacks, said many families who lost loved ones at the site were “incensed” about the mosque, viewing it as a tribute to the terrorists behind the hijackings. Part of their anger stems from their broader frustration over redevelopment of the site, and plans for a memorial that would be located beneath street level.
(It also asks students opinions)

dnainfo.com...
note: the polls so far on the above link is, Yes 41%, No 53%, Don't care 6%

Anyone can google the same question to find more, I listed a few random links.

edit to add I did NOT go on a search and pick what I wanted to pick, I copied and pasted at random.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

This is what information I could find on the center founded by Pat Robertson

About the American Center for Law & Justice

The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) focuses on constitutional law and is based in Washington, D.C. The ACLJ is specifically dedicated to the ideal that religious freedom and freedom of speech are inalienable, God-given rights. The Center's purpose is to educate, promulgate, conciliate, and where necessary, litigate, to ensure that those rights are protected under the law. The organization has participated in numerous cases before the Supreme Court, Federal Court of Appeals, Federal District Courts, and various state courts regarding freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
www.aclj.org...

ABOUT ACLJ Mission
www.aclj.org...

The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) and its globally affiliated organizations are committed to ensuring the ongoing viability of freedom and liberty in the United States and around the world.

By focusing on U.S. constitutional law, European Union law and human rights law, the ACLJ and its affiliated organizations are dedicated to the concept that freedom and liberty are universal, God-given and inalienable rights that must be protected.

The ACLJ and its worldwide affiliates engage in litigation, provide legal services, render advice to individuals and governmental agencies, as well as counsel clients on global freedom and liberty issues. They also support training law students from around the world in order to protect religious liberty and safeguard human rights and dignity.

As a non-profit organization, the ACLJ does not charge for its services and is dependent upon God and the resources He provides through the time, talent, and gifts of people who share our concerns and desire to protect our religious and constitutional freedoms.

REASON FOR LAW SUIT:
to challenge a city panel's decision to let developers tear down a building to make way for the mosque two blocks from ground zero.

other sites to read about ACLJ
en.wikipedia.org...&_Justice

www.jihadwatch.org...
Jay Sekulow, Chief Counsel of the ACLJ said,
"It has been clear from the beginning that the city has engaged in a rush to push this project through - ignoring proper procedure and ignoring a growing number of New Yorkers and Americans who don't believe this site is the place to build a mosque. We're poised to file legal action on behalf of our client to challenge this flawed decision and put a stop to this project."

You can read the ACLJ's letter submitted to the city here: www.aclj.org...

Led by Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow, the American Center for Law and Justice focuses on constitutional law and is based in Washington, D.C. The ACLJ is online at www.aclj.org.

www.regent.edu...
www.sourcewatch.org...
www.bbb.org...


[edit on 5-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
Seriously, that argument makes no sense from any direction. People living further away do not have a problem with a religious center being build....it's the location where it is going to be erected!!!

What are you talking about??????

YOU JUST GOT DONE PROVING THIS ENTIRE POST WRONG YOURSELF????



Why post something and then debunk it yourself? Why would you get stars for that? What part of Manhattan are you from?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Common Good

 

Who said ALL New Yorkers? There are clearly some who are against it and clearly some who are not. A little perspective here.

You may feel that New York "belongs to the nation" or however you put it, but the people of New York have and should have the final say. They've lived in this neighborhood and the people who will buld this center are their NEIGHBORS. And the center will be open to ALL the people of the community and New York.

I never said the people of New york shouldnt have the final say.
Dont put words into my mouth toprove whatever point it is you are trying to prove.
I simply said that what happened on sept 11th effected the whole country, not just New Yorkers.
I also said that "IMO, this mosque is already built, they will build it, this is America, they can do whatever they want".

So please, before you jump into a conversation with me, make sure you quote what I SAY, not what YOU WANT me to say.

I wasn't "quoting" you or putting words in your mouth. I even said, "or however you put it."

I read what you said and replied to the gist of what I thought I read. If I was mistaken, I was mistaken.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Well, you were mistaking.

Reading comprehension goes a long way.

Like I said, I can give a damn if they build it or not.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Ok, well as it does not matter, I guess that after a few years, and when the first Religious law is on the books, when you have a few more radical islamic clerics coming out to either inspire violence against the country, I guess it will not matter then. I guess it will not matter that people will start to discriminate against those who are muslim in this country, pitting neighbor against neighbor, and that the acts of violence on both sides will start and increase. And it will not matter if some extremist decideds to either burn places of worship and or start shooting at each other. That is the end result of this. The only question is which side will take the first act?

reply to post by sweetliberty


Thanks for the link with the stastics - I was wondering how people as a whole felt about this.

reply to post by Common Good

Nothing wrong with my comprehension. When I'm focused. My apologies.

My points about this and the 9/11 families being used for politics and profit stand.



[edit on 8/5/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by sdcigarpig

I have more faith that this won't happen. That as fractured as it is both our Constitution, our other laws, and our Supreme Court will go far in preventing this.

Maybe it's misguided, but I don't believe in worrying about things that aren't and don't appear to me to ever even come close to becoming a problem.

Muslims have been in this country for a very long time. Millions and millions of them, and this has rarely been any kind of issue. The seeming more frequent occurrences come from the recent focus on this.

These Muslims are Americans as we are. We can resist the nebulous and nefarious threats of Sharia law. In my book, if you don't have faith in that, you don't have faith in much.

I'm seeing a lot of created pitting neighbor against neighbor right here...as a result of this issue.

Ugh edit for typos.

[edit on 8/5/2010 by ~Lucidity]

This sounds like nothing more than political correctness. Once again, you do not have the right to not be offended. Also, don't quote the Quran to use as an argument. Christians aren't out killing gays, so do you guys really thing Muslims are going to go out killing infidels, especially with their reputation in the US?