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mosque near ground zero greenlighted

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posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


"Oooh say can you see by the dawns early light,
what we so proudly hail at the twilights last gleaming..

*snip(because is it really important anymore? The words lie.)*

"O're the land of the free(maybe) and the home of the brave."

Is that last line just words now? Please tell me they aren't but I see little but fear. That's NOT brave. The exact opposite.




posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:15 AM
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you are not right intrepid you are not right

has any american in this thread disrespected your country in any way shape or form.

even if they have man do you really have to steep down to the same level?


you dont like my country fine but dont press your luck here.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae
 


I lived there the first 28 years of my life, 10 in Tribeca, and watched the towers being built when I was little. Do I count?



Heck, I am pretty sure that makes you count even more than me. I never saw the towers at all. I think for the most part, I have no say in the matter just because of how far out in the state I live. I just find it so odd that people not even from the state or this part of the country feel such a need to vocally oppose this. I have been told that I have no right to an opinion on the Arizona law. One of the reasons given was that NY is not a border state
. Maybe if Canadians were darker they would seem like they had a whole other country? I am just trying to apply that logic since I see a lot of crossover in the people speaking out on such issues. I guess if I have no say on what is going on in Arizona then maybe people not from or living in NY should just not worry about it.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Do you think that the mosque is going to save you all on the day New York gets hit by the big one?


No.........why would you think anyone would think a mosque is going to save them from anything?

What big one? What do you know? What information do you have? Any details you are not sharing about a known attack amount to treason.


I just hope Washington doesn't get hit simultaneously, cause if it does, The United States will cease to exist.


Right just like the last time Washington got hit and the U.S. ceased to exist?

Mind if I ask what you are talking about?



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
you dont like my country fine but dont press your luck here.


Don't threaten me little man, I remember when America meant something. Talk to your grandfather, you may learn something about being an American.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by intrepid]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by neo96
you dont like my country fine but dont press your luck here.


Don't threaten me pissant, I remember when America meant something. Talk to your grandfather, you may learn something about being an American.


There is no such thing as being an "American." We are individuals, we should not fall under the identity of our insignificant territorial lines but instead wave the flag of "Human."



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:26 AM
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thanks for validating what i already knew about you.


were done here



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


I wish I had one to share with you..........History always repeats itself.

I hope 9/11 2.0 doesn't happen in my lifetime....but I doubt it.



Well then we still have to deal with the Crusades 2.0 before the Muslims come back around to attack us again, right? Or maybe that is just fear based nonsense?



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:29 AM
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Sorry guys but when I'm preached to by the inane I get a little defensive. It's not the ATS way. I apologize.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:29 AM
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I live in New York, I was in Manhattan during the 9/11 attacks (you can check out my story here, from the recent thread on that subject).

I'm proud that New York remains liberal enough and open enough to allow this. I'm Jewish, as is our Mayor I should probably add. This isn't about placating any group, it's about following the law and the following through with the blessing of freedom as enshrined in the First Amendment to our Constitution:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof


That's it, that's the argument for allowing this to go up and it's all the argument I need. To deny it would be to help destroy the freedoms our country is based on even further. To deny it based solely on their religion would be, quite simply, unconstitutional.

So long as they get the right permits, follow the demolition and building codes in tearing down the old building and opening the new one, there's no cause at all for denying this construction. It's not on the WTC site, it's several hundred yards away and not even visible to the site, itself. The WTC site is, I believe (or will be) designated a National Historic site, and so greater controls can be exercised over building there. But away from that site, it's all about local ordinances and building regulations, and that's it.

When I lived in Brooklyn Heights I lived across the street from a small Mosque - the street I was on was largely, if not predominantly Jewish. Around the corner, on Atlantic Ave. and nearby it was predominantly Muslim. People get along just fine, that's how it is in New York. If you're not from here, you really shouldn't come in and try to tell us we have to deny rights to others because it offends your sense of propriety, or whatever. You shouldn't be saying that anyway, because propriety don't enter into it. It's about rights and freedoms and that's what we value here.

Besides Downtown really could use something like a YMCA or a JCC, which is all this place really is.

[edit on 8/5/2010 by LifeInDeath]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by intrepid
 

I do believe you are incorrect.

Passive-aggressive attacks and baseless accusations are, in fact, the ATS way.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 



don't worry, dude.

according to many, it will only be a local problem.

why not rebuild st.nicholas too?


www.stnicholasnyc.com...




The familes of the victims of child rape oppose building a monument to child rapists 2 blocks from a place where a 9 year old boy was molested.

We can find a good reason to refuse any house of worship and believe me it would not break my heart to see NONE.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Bravery or stupidity....it kinda depends on your point of reference....

Peace



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:47 AM
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man i swear

talk to my grandfathers eh pretty hard when they both been dead for 30 years


guess a "real" american" is anyone with your ideals

or someone YOU can "educate" or "learn" them

anyway i think about those comments its





posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by Adevoc Satanae
 



Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae
What big one? What do you know? What information do you have? Any details you are not sharing about a known attack amount to treason.


Wow. I dare speak my mind and I am accused of treason by a Satanist.....only on ATS......Perhaps you should call for my execution or nominate me for one of your ritual human sacrifices.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:18 AM
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Everyone is a critic.

I wouldnt be worried about the mosque getting built, because in my mind, they already built it and will build it, nobody can stop them from doing so.
This is America afterall, we have to at least act as if we are a free nation despite all of our personal bias.

That said, Im more worried about what will happen AFTER it is built.
Im going to use my imaginary telepathic powers here and say that I can see A LOT of hate-crimes happening to this place and to the people whom
will be visiting this center once this place begins operating. We have to remember that just because the majority of the people accept it, there will always be those out there who dont, whom wish to act out on their own beliefs, regardless if the people spoke or not.

We have to remember that most wars begin because of religous extremism(on both sides). So with such a small minority of muslims in this country, they will be targeted even more by those whom feel that all of the muslim community is to blame for what happened to their fellow countrymen on that horrible day. Its sad, but true.

So what bothers me most about this mosque is not the fact that it is for people who killed our people and are now spitting in our faces, but the fact
more people will now be targetted for future hate crimes.
In a way it WILL be ironic in the sense that we let them build it, just so we could destroy it to prove a point. And when I say 'we', I mean those that dont agree.

Hopefully Im wrong.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Wow. I dare speak my mind and I am accused of treason by a Satanist.....


I never once called you treasonous for speaking your mind. What would my religion have to do with pointing out traiterous behavior anyway? I said if you know anything about an attack and ARE NOTE SAYING IT, then that would be treasonous. WOW!

So there is no attack coming then? It is just some paranoid rhetoric? Cool. Glad we straightened that all out.


only on ATS......Perhaps you should call for my execution or nominate me for one of your ritual human sacrifices.


Nothing you did was worthy of the trouble it takes to murder and get away with it guilt free; don't be silly. It is not like you are the guy that clipped my morning glories! Ritual sacrifices are things you imagined along with the coming attack you are afraid of. Perhaps you have a thread on the boogey man or monsters under the bed as well?

Hey, think they will find anything in Capone's valut?

So I says to this pile of rocks, I says...

[edit on 5-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Sorry guys but when I'm preached to by the inane I get a little defensive. It's not the ATS way. I apologize.


Then maybe I should try a little of that because I have not gotten a response from you yet! Am I by any change on your "ignore-list"??

The thing is, it is indeed brave to except this initiative from the Muslim community. As it is brave to even consider such an initiative by the Muslim community knowing how this will infuriate the more strict followers of Islam.

Searching for dialog between religions and looking for mutual respect is a noble cause. I really applaud the good imam for his insight but.....

It is a bit naive to think that after this center has opened everything will be peachy dandy. It will forever remain a controversial building, not only, to the Americans who oppose this plan but also to the Jihad-minded Muslims out there. Realistically, how long will it take for some nutjob to fill up a UPS truck with explosives and park it across the road??

We can all ignore this and chant songs about respect and tolerance but any religious organization seeing potential loss of lives as an acceptable side effect is not in the business of spreading peace..

Peace



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by Common Good
That said, Im more worried about what will happen AFTER it is built.
Im going to use my imaginary telepathic powers here and say that I can see A LOT of hate-crimes happening to this place and to the people whom
will be visiting this center once this place begins operating.


I don't think you are giving enough credit to the people of NY. That may happen but I'd wager it's a tour from another state. Not New Yorkers. They've dealt with worse.



posted on Aug, 5 2010 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by Common Good
 


Let's say you are right. There is a good chance you are. But let's carry that thought out. The mosque is built and thus becomes a target, right?

Then what? Do you expect them to retaliate or perhaps call the police? Do you think it will spark war?

My concern is, if this place becomes a target of hate crimes then how long do people still get to blame them for being targets? At what point do you think it will become clear that the only enemies of America would be the ones comitting crimes and not the ones gathering to pray or swim?

Just wondering how long we can justify hating targets.




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