Are Women Conditioned To Be Weak By Society?

Originally posted by Stillalive
well what if woman and man are locked up in prison.
woman will need tampons,and tissues and wateeer and beteer food,or shes vegeatarian and all that
its not sexism its just logic

* Tampons? Pads work too, but that's irrelevant.

* Tissues? I guess if she catches a cold or needs to send some Christmas gifts the tissues would come in handy, but hardly a necessity.

* Water - ok, you got me on this one. I'll admit that water is pretty much a necessity, but it's a necessity for life regardless of gender.

* better food - I had a hot dog for lunch and a burger for dinner, both served in the hospital cafeteria. One doesn't have to be in prison to appreciate the comforts of better food.

* Vegetarian? If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he'd have given me buck teeth, a poofy tail, long ears and had my parents name me Bugs. I'm very much a carnivore, so gender has nothing to do with that issue.

Tying this post to the original thread topic, part of the strength of the female spirit is our ability to express our emotions. We're not inhibited by social constructs that dictate that we hide our emotions, which in turn allows us to better manage our emotional responses. Society has taught us to develop and batter manage our emotions, allowing us outlets other than violence.

Rather than fight to prove ourselves in prison, we prefer to avoid prison altogether.

reply to post by Jenna


Hey, If you want to go there.... then by ALL MEANS, let's GO THERE!

Hate to break it to you bub, but I was being specific already.

No, you weren't....

Women are not weaker than men in any of those areas. A single woman can be, but women in general are not.

What you were referring to:

Women generally speaking are not physically capable of building the same muscle mass that men do, that much is true. Physical weakness and being weak in general however are not and never will be the same thing.

You are implying that women are MENTALLY as strong as Men, or Emotionally as strong as men, or some other meaning of the word "Weak"


And what does Emotional Weakness MEAN?

How about Mental Weakness? what does THAT mean?


What do you mean by WEAK, since you don't seem to be spelling out what you mean, and are just taking it on faith that noone will question you.

I will.

Women are physically WEAKER than men.


This means that women *ARE WEAKER* than men... because that is what words MEAN.

And in case you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one who's said that men can be just as weak as women in everything but physical strength.

Ah... so, the more people who agree with you... the more RIGHT you are, eh?

Copernicus would be proud.

I'm not sure what your game is yet, but I can tell you now I won't play it with you.

No Game... just trying to make sure that communication is TRUE, and UN-misinterpreted.

I just want to know WHAT you mean...

Nor will I repeat everything I've already said just for you.

Fair Enough... women are weaker than men.

What it sounds like is that I struck a nerve somewhere saying that men can be weak.

No, you struck a nerve when you said that women are not weaker than men... because that is an UNTRUE statement.

And if that's all it comes down to then I hate to break it to you but the truth hurts.

You have no idea how true that is going to be...

-Edrick

Im not sure why there is so much hatred going on between the sexes? Seems that men and women have something in common their egos.

I just read the original post seems like it is suggesting that women are separate to society and not part of it to make contribution to the question at hand?

This suggests that the real question should be to this thread is:

"Do men think women are the weaker sex?"

and on the flip side, "Do women think men are the stronger sex?"

Or is this discrimination and actually defining any one person based on their gender is sexist and it is certain sections of society not society as a whole that believes there is a black and white line between both male and female.

now i got this off the net:


Sexist : adj : discriminatory on the basis of sex (usually said of men's attitude toward women) (noun)

1: a man with a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of women [syn: male chauvinist]

sexist adjective /ˈsek.sɪst/ disapproving
Sexist jokes or comments suggest that women are less able than men or refer to women's bodies, behaviour or feelings in a negative way


Looking at the question now, if as it suggests that women are separate and from society and it is the male who has galvanised the notion of sexism and used it to identify males who believe in the inferiority of a women then part of society has developed a belief that women are weaker but those people must be men who are sexist. Which then begs the question of a proportion of society being discriminatory determined from a prejudiced judge. ie an attitude formed beforehand and creating gender stereotyping by making judgement on a persons gender and not the person at hand.

On the other hand if we take into consideration that women are part of society then it could be said that both men and women termed the word sexist and somewhere down the line males agreed that they do judge women as the weaker sex. Im not sure if there is a word that describes a female describing their own sex as weaker than males?

reply to post by misuneko


Are women Weaker than Men?


Let's get down to brass Tax here...

There is more than one Definition of "Weak".... and here are some of them:

1. wanting in physical strength

Women are generally physically weaker than men... therefore, "Women are Weaker than men" is a true statement.

2. watery: overly diluted; thin and insipid.

There are some who would say that women are thin and insipid... watered down, and shallow...

Are women MORE watered down and shallow than men?

Well, if we look at Enlistment Numbers for that indication, it clearly reveals that more men care enough about their country to Volunteer to Protect it than women do.

So, under this definition, the statement "Women are weaker than men" is True.

3. unaccented: (used of vowels or syllables) pronounced with little or no stress.

Something tells me that this one does not apply....

4. fallible: wanting in moral strength, courage, or will.


Once again, I base the Moral Strength of an individual on their contributions for others.

Military service records for the ENTIRE PLANET (Discounting nations where ALL are drafted manditorily, of course.) is my data set for this particular definition.

So, we can see that the Phrase "Women are weaker than men" is also true in this instance.

5. tending downward in price

I'm not even going to comment....

(NSFW: Language.... it's Dave Chapelle)
www.youtube.com...


6. deficient or lacking in some skill

Yes... men know more things, and have more skills, OVERALL, than women do.

Therefore, under this definition.... "Women are weaker than men" is True.


7. decrepit: lacking bodily or muscular strength or vitality

I think we already covered this.


8. (used of verbs) having standard (or regular) inflection

I don't think this one is applicable.


9. not having authority, political strength, or governing power

Well, women are always complaining about their LACK of political power, or whatever....

SO... by this definition, "Women are Weaker than Men" is TRUE by women's own admission.


10. faint: deficient in magnitude; barely perceptible

Ok, this one is probably the only definition that makes "Women are weaker than men" false.


11. likely to fail under stress or pressure

YES.

"Women are Weaker than Men"

12. deficient in intelligence or mental power


I'll leave that one alone..... for now.



So, now that we have gone through the motions, like we are children.... you can see my problem with these "Women are just as equal as men and are not weaker or anything" arguments.


When you say that "Women are NOT weaker than men" YOU ARE LYING.


IT IS A FALSE STATEMENT by almost EVERY CONCEIVABLE METRIC.



And they have the NERVE to take it personally when I tell them that they are *USING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE INCORRECTLY*

-Edrick

I wonder what kind of response would be recieved if the women on this thread went and started a "Men are Jerks." thread.....

when my kids were young and came home with a cut.....
my husband would start screaming at me to come see....I had already seen enough to know....I would need a washclothe to wipe the blood to know what else was needed....I was calmly pouring water over that washclothe or on my way to wipe off the bruise....
who's better under stress....
me...

you can stereotype all you want...the fact is, there are many women out there stronger than some of you men!
there are many women out there that are capable of handling a stressfull situation better than some of you men!
there are many women out there that are more intelligent than some of you men.
skills....same thing....
authority........what can I say, men had to have everything their way so badly, they decided to create a God to tell women that the men were in control!!!

the only one that you might have a shot at is the physical strength and well, you are losing ground on that one also, women now days are more physically active chasing their kids around and touting their babies than some of you men are pushing those files across your desks at work!!!

3+2 still equals 4+1 even when the components are a little different!
and a good sign of immaturity is still, wanting everything to be your way!!!

reply to post by dawnstar

you can stereotype all you want...the fact is, there are many women out there stronger than some of you men!

Some conventional bombs are more powerful than certain nuclear bombs...

Does that mean that Conventional Bombs are Equal to Nuclear Bombs?


The answer is NO by the way.



There are people in Zimbabwe that are richer that some people in America...

Does this mean that Zimbabwe's economy is as good as America's?


The answer is also no.

there are many women out there that are more intelligent than some of you men.
skills....same thing....

There are some parrots that are smarter than some humans...

This must mean that parrots are equal to humans.

authority........what can I say, men had to have everything their way so badly, they decided to create a God to tell women that the men were in control!!!

A short list of Goddesses from antiquity....

Lilith
Gaia
Isis
Nut
Nephthys
Tefnut
Naunet
Amaunet
Kauket
Hauhet
Ishtar
Inanna
Ninhursag
Ninlil
Antu
Baalat
Uzza
al-Manāt
al-Lāt
Ushas
Persephone
Demeter
Baubo
Aphrodite
Artemis
Athena
Cybele
Eris
Hera
Hecate
Iris
Nike
Potnia Theron
Selene

So... yeah.

the only one that you might have a shot at is the physical strength and well

Is that all that men have going for them?

Their Muscles?


Then why are you not living under the Rule of Bears and Elephants?

3+2 still equals 4+1

Yeah.... but those are numbers, not people....

Are you feeling alright?

and a good sign of immaturity is still, wanting everything to be your way!!!

Oh, you have NO IDEA.

-Edrick

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Edrick]

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by Edrick


Like I said, if you want to pick apart my statements, feel free to do so. If you can't remember what I've already said, click the 'Thread' button at the bottom of my post and you'll get all my posts from this thread in one place. In the mean time, you may want to relax. You seem to be taking my posts awfully personally...

reply to post by Edrick


that's one way to look at things...

i'll address some of your points with another...

Originally posted by Edrick
1. wanting in physical strength

Women are generally physically weaker than men... therefore,

"Women are Weaker than men" is a true statement.

a truer statement would be "women are weaker than men in the physical sense"...though in today's society that fact is almost obsolete...there's more than one way to get something done, you can use muscle or brains to move a heavy box -- both sexes can accomplish such things, using whatever strategy that may work best in their favour. okay, women may not be as physically imposing as men, but maybe they don't have to be...in the grand scheme of things were it really matters, they're "equal" in the sense that they can accomplish the same things a man can, one way or another. men would be nowhere without women and vice versa.

Originally posted by Edrick
2. watery: overly diluted; thin and insipid.

There are some who would say that women are thin and insipid... watered down, and shallow...

yep, some women are all those things and so are some men. i don't think many men will complain about thin women. insipid, well, that's up to the observer to decide on a particular individual, male or female. watered down from what? what did women used to be or should be that they've been watered down from? afraid both sexes are victims to shallowness, wouldn't have to go far to see where this applies to men -- i.e selection of women based purely on appearance.

Originally posted by Edrick
Well, if we look at Enlistment Numbers for that indication, it clearly reveals that more men care enough about their country to Volunteer to Protect it than women do.

you said it yourself...men are physically stronger than women...wouldn't that mean, strategically speaking, it would be more advantadgous for a nation to enlist men? this again is about physical more than anything else -- men physically stronger and more capable of taking up the front line. but we've already discussed the importance of physical strength...

Originally posted by Edrick
4. fallible: wanting in moral strength, courage, or will.

Once again, I base the Moral Strength of an individual on their contributions for others.

if you want to base moral strength on what an individual contributes for others, you can't ignore the contribution women make to the world in terms of child bearing and nurturing. who here, both men and women, can say their mothers have not played a significant role in shaping their lives. not to say men don't play a part, they do as well, in a different way, perhaps providing and protecting etc etc point is women don't have to go to war to be contributors to society.

whilst on the topic, is war really a moral concept to begin with? is one really displaying moral strength by engaging in it? you'd have to be physically strong to try it and do well, but morally? honestly? who starts these wars? are they moral people?

takes more morality to raise a life than take one. at the very extreme one could say women bring up nations and men tear them down. truth is world needs a balance of both men and women's strengths -- do we really have to see one sex unanimously stronger than the other when they've both got different strengths, and yet are both necessary to ensure the continuation of the human race?

oh man, no more text space! will continue in next post…

reply to post by Edrick

Originally posted by Edrick
6. deficient or lacking in some skill

Yes... men know more things, and have more skills, OVERALL, than women do.

Therefore, under this definition.... "Women are weaker than men" is True.

Yet, with all these things men know and all these skills men have, death of the species would still be the result if not for women’s existence. Mind, it’s not so much that men know more things and have more skills… men know things and have skills they need to in order to ensure the human race survives. Women know things and have skills they need to in order to ensure the human race survives. It’s a team effort. Women are not weak for not living “a man’s way” and men are not weak for not living “a woman’s way”. Why even try to compare the two. Just two sides to the same coin.

Originally posted by Edrick
11. likely to fail under stress or pressure

both sexes are susceptible to this, and I think a lot of stress and pressure women go through during their lives is often overlooked by people.

Originally posted by Edrick
When you say that "Women are NOT weaker than men" YOU ARE LYING.

Call me a liar, but women are not weaker than men

truth is we are one, and need each other, different perhaps, but takes both sexes to complete the puzzle that is the human race. being one complex species, i think it would be much too difficult to split us into two clean sides, least of all a weak and a strong one.

lets make love people, not war

reply to post by Edrick


You realize you used the definition I posted after telling me i was still using the word wrong, yes? You amuse me.

Reply to post by galadofwarthethird

hey friend......maybe what we're talking about here is that- because of menstruation woman are so attached to their bodies that they are completely and udderly (haha) unable to be selfless. they can react to things based on how they would feel in those situations but 'selflessness' is forever out of their reach and this is why they are so dependant on the external things around them.

I am 40 and I am a buddha. you are just dripping with venom. if we went into a room together, you'd come out a different person.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com



[edit on 10-8-2010 by IandEye]

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
All in all, I can't think of anything that, on average, women are superior to men at

Nurturing, listening, duration of patience with children.

Of course, that's not PC either. Ya just can't satisfy 'em.

reply to post by IandEye


Never did explain how you're more spiritual than anyone else when you're just as stuck in your physical body as I am in mine.

On a side note, i didn't think buddha said "jerk wad"...

Originally posted by amazed
If this is so, I would say that you just argued that women are obviously the "stronger" sex as she has the strength, capability and will to say no, when according to your argument men are too weak to say no.

There's no strength, capability, or willpower involved. It's just nature.
Men and women tend to biologically have different attitudes to sex.

A man is out to impregnate any half-decent woman that'll let him.
A woman is out to select an eligible male that will take care of her and her offspring.

The reason that a woman would usually turn down having sex with most men that asked her directly, is not because she's ''gagging for it'' and using immense willpower not to jump into bed with them, but because she's genuinely not interested in any sexual frolics with the men.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
All in all, I can't think of anything that, on average, women are superior to men at

Nurturing, listening, duration of patience with children.

Of course, that's not PC either. Ya just can't satisfy 'em.

If women are superior to men in certain areas then it just figures that men are superior to women in some areas. Women that are doing traditional male things no days and claim some superiority at it are just a gas.

Its strange that the talk used to be of equality but having gained that now strangly the talk is of superority. I find that the cross over of roles these days just shows what a bunch of hype both sides generate over traditional roles.

But make no mistake we should kep an eye on women that run thier mouth about superiority....they have a problem.

As far as conditioned to be weak....as a sort of straw man if you will....to act like type a females....no I dont see this. Women are bold as ever, many are off the hook even with all this proving themselves independent ect ect.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
All in all, I can't think of anything that, on average, women are superior to men at

Nurturing, listening, duration of patience with children.

Of course, that's not PC either. Ya just can't satisfy 'em.

If women are superior to men in certain areas then it just figures that men are superior to women in some areas.

Oh I wasn't disagreeing with the post I quoted. Actually I starred it. I was just taking issue with the absolutism of that one sentence.

Males and females exist by nature. There would not be any dimorphism if they were not intended to complement one another via differing strengths. At least for the psychologically healthy, the sexes are not supposed to compete, but to cooperate, contributing their individual strengths.

The fact that all the talk is about male superiority and you see so many women trying to partake in the age-old male dick-waving game claiming superiority to men at this or that thing, probably speaks more to the fact that modern industrial civilization has made family a burden and generally undervalues it.

I mean, how often do we get the impression from our society that people who raise families and delight in families and are loyal to their families are "suckers" (usually financially speaking)? It's practically ubiquitous. And since historically the strengths of the female have shined the brightest in the family, it's no surprise that we don't see the acknowledgement of female superiority in that area. The sad fact is just that no one cares anymore.

Of course, the joke's on us. In my personal experience I know people who are "living it up" as singles with their money, and those who have made the sacrifices to have a family life. I know some individuals in each category well enough to see through their personas. And there is not a doubt in my mind as to which tend to be happier and consider their lives more meaningful and fulfilling

Unfortunately I myself presently live in the wrong category, something I hope to change someday.

Family is grossly underrated these days.


[edit on 10-8-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
Nurturing, listening, duration of patience with children.

Of course, that's not PC either. Ya just can't satisfy 'em.

I'm not sold on the ''nurturing and patience with children'' bit.

I've seen some pretty shocking statistics of crime rates by children of single mothers.

Of course there are other factors that influence that as well, but it still doesn't make for pretty reading.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

reply to post by noeyesnoearsnofacenofears

a truer statement would be "women are weaker than men in the physical sense"

That would be a true statement.... but not "Truer".

.though in today's society that fact is almost obsolete...there's more than one way to get something done, you can use muscle or brains to move a heavy box

You are saying that a woman operating a crane is stronger than just a man and his muscles?

That's sort of an insipid argument, actually.

The Statement "Women are not weaker than men" means about ten thousand different things.

Some of them True, some of the False.

And thus, using it as a blanket statement is more of an emotional ploy, than an actual declaration of anything that could be considered logic.

okay, women may not be as physically imposing as men, but maybe they don't have to be

You are loosing the point.

"Women are not weaker than men" cannot be made TRUE by stating that "but maybe they don't have to be"

This tactic does not make you RIGHT.

It just makes you Attention Deficit.

.in the grand scheme of things were it really matters, they're "equal" in the sense that they can accomplish the same things a man can, one way or another.

Can they Fertilize an Egg?

men would be nowhere without women and vice versa.

And neither would be ANYWHERE without Oxygen....

Are we then to assume that Oxygen is just as strong as Humans?

yep, some women are all those things and so are some men.

This is a true statement.

i don't think many men will complain about thin women.

LOL!... ok, I meant "Thin" as far as depth of personality.... but anyways...

insipid, well, that's up to the observer to decide on a particular individual, male or female. watered down from what?

Well, if it is all just subjective, then I don't see how anyone can claim that women are *not* weaker than men....

Because in some perspectives, THEY *ARE* WEAKER... and thus, by your logic, one cannot make the claim that "Women are not weaker than men" because the ENTIRE STATEMENT means absolutely NOTHING... because it lacks the necessary CONTEXT to be a rational argument.

what did women used to be or should be that they've been watered down from?

Any Questions?

afraid both sexes are victims to shallowness

Yes... but to what DEGREE are each of the sexes Shallow?

Can we compare them mathematically?

Can we definitively state that one is Worse at this than the other?

Because if not... then the statement "Women are not weaker than men" is a pointless excersize in emotional futility.

The statement means NOTHING.

wouldn't have to go far to see where this applies to men -- i.e selection of women based purely on appearance.

Yeah... I'm not going to argue that one.

you said it yourself...men are physically stronger than women...wouldn't that mean, strategically speaking, it would be more advantadgous for a nation to enlist men?

Yeah, and women are better at cooking and raising children.... wouldn't that mean, strategically speaking, it would be more advantageous for the women to get back in the kitchen?

if you want to base moral strength on what an individual contributes for others, you can't ignore the contribution women make to the world in terms of child bearing and nurturing.

Yeah.... but can you quantify it?

Can you compare the one to the other?

Can you state that one is NECESSARILY more than the other, or that they are both EQUAL?

Remember, Equal is a MATHEMATICAL TERM.... and as such, does not apply to individual human organisms.

No-one is Equal... that is a childish notion.

who here, both men and women, can say their mothers have not played a significant role in shaping their lives.

Can you COUNT how much SIGNIFICANCE each gender plays in this role?

Can you compare them?

Mathematically?


Because if you CAN'T.... then the phrase "Women are not weaker than men" is an absurd statement with absolutely NO basis in reality.

whilst on the topic, is war really a moral concept to begin with? is one really displaying moral strength by engaging in it? you'd have to be physically strong to try it and do well, but morally? honestly? who starts these wars? are they moral people?

Volunteering for your nations defensive forces is one of the most noble things that you can do.

I will not have you besmirch the name of our Soldiers, just because they were tricked by greedy fascists into killing people for profit.

takes more morality to raise a life than take one.

You mean BETTER morality, or Higher moral ground.... not "More Morality"


Anyways... tell that to the SWAT sniper who has to make the choice to kill someone, in order to save lives.

Then get back to me, ok?

at the very extreme one could say women bring up nations and men tear them down.

Yeah.. you COULD say that... but it would be a vicious lie, wouldn't it?

truth is world needs a balance of both men and women's strengths -- do we really have to see one sex unanimously stronger than the other when they've both got different strengths, and yet are both necessary to ensure the continuation of the human race?

Which is stronger, Strength or Emotion?

Which is stronger, Depth, or Tardiness?

Which is stronger, Tensile strength, or Maturity?



"WEAK" is a blanket term that is not being defined, and as such, can mean ANYTHING within the context of the statement "Women are not weaker than men"




YOU will ALL communicate CORRECTLY, or NOT AT ALL.

Yet, with all these things men know and all these skills men have, death of the species would still be the result if not for women’s existence.

And I suppose that women can reproduce without men, right?

Kinda childish perspective, isn't it?

Women are not weak for not living “a man’s way” and men are not weak for not living “a woman’s way”. Why even try to compare the two. Just two sides to the same coin.

(sigh)

"Women are not weaker than men"

This is a COMPARISON between two completely different sides of the same species.

Using words that do not fit the context, and are POORLY DEFINED.


So, I think we are on the same page.

both sexes are susceptible to this, and I think a lot of stress and pressure women go through during their lives is often overlooked by people.

Yeah, but you keep forgetting about that invisible alien war that men single handedly saved the entire human species from.. and then we all promptly forgot because of microwave pulses....


See?

I can make up invisible obstacles too.

Call me a liar, but women are not weaker than men

We are going to have to go through this again, aren't we?



Find me a woman that can do this....

Otherwise, Women are *WEAKER* than men.

Are we CLEAR?

truth is we are one, and need each other, different perhaps, but takes both sexes to complete the puzzle that is the human race. being one complex species, i think it would be much too difficult to split us into two clean sides, least of all a weak and a strong one.

Oh GOD... you are still missing my entire point... aren't you?


We have already covered the NUMEROUS different definitions of the word "Weaker"

I have already demonstrated that with some of the definitions of the word, women ARE considered to be weaker than men.

I have already demonstrated that with other definitions of the word, women are NOT considered to be weaker than men.

If you are going to State something as BROAD, and SWEEPING as "Women are not weaker than men"

Then it would BEHOOVE YOU TO PICK A SPECIFIC DEFINITION, INSTEAD OF SAYING "ALL DEFINITIONS!"


This is childish.

Stop it.

-Edrick

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by Jenna

You realize you used the definition I posted after telling me i was still using the word wrong, yes? You amuse me.

You realize that your statement is not true, yes?

I never said that you used the wrong word....

I said that you used the word INCORRECTLY.

Try to keep up, ok?

"Weaker" means about 17 different things.

Which one *DO YOU MEAN?* when you say that "women are not weaker than men"

Because we already know that the World record holders for lifting heavy objects are men.

Specify your perspective.... or be incorrect.

That is all.

-Edrick

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
Nurturing, listening, duration of patience with children.

Of course, that's not PC either. Ya just can't satisfy 'em.

I'm not sold on the ''nurturing and patience with children'' bit.

I've seen some pretty shocking statistics of crime rates by children of single mothers.

Of course there are other factors that go influence that as well, but it still doesn't make for pretty reading.

Meh, there are always counterexamples. And the fact is, people of either sex who are lost in vice and care about no one but themselves tend to act the same.

I guess I'm blessed to know some truly caring, virtuous men and women in my life. I also went to college and know a bit of the vice side. Let me tell you the difference is like night and day. And unlike the latter case, in the former case the strengths and weaknesses of each sex appear in pretty sharp contrast to one another. But the beauty of that case is they're not insecure about their weaknesses, but grateful their partners can pick up the slack.


[edit on 10-8-2010 by NewlyAwakened]