Some New York Homeowners face fines for backyard pools

Some New York Homeowners face fines for backyard pools

www.abc2news.com

RIVERHEAD, N.Y. (AP) -- Some Long Islanders are in hot water --because of their backyard pools. The town of Riverhead, New York, is using Google Earth to find pools that don't have the proper
permits.

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I frequently here about individuals using Google Earth to find anything from funny expressions on peoples faces to possible secret government or military facilities. A law enforcement agency using Google Earth to aid in discovery and prosecution of individuals. How soon before the line between Google and Government becomes so blurred that Google and Government are synonymous?

www.abc2news.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I recall reading they were doing this in a wealthy part of Athens, Greece a few years ago. I'm sure many other towns do the same thing by now.

reply to post by oniongrass


I do not think that this is acceptable. The idea of the government sitting in a air conditioned offices in front of computer screens searching for pools in peoples backyards is beyond the scope of serving and protecting. While it isn't an invasion of privacy in the normal sense, it is an invasion of something and it gives me the chills thinking about it.

Well, thats the problem with technology. Its a double edged sword.

The PTB love the fact that they can film us committing crimes, and, unfortunately for them, our having the same technology has allowed us to do the same to them

They created the internet as a way to transmit information for their own benefit, and we are now using the same internet to transmit information about their dirty dealings amongst ourselves.

Just because something can be used for nefarious purpose does not mean, to me anyway, that that thing itself is bad. Google has created some incredibly powerful tools. They benefit us, the average person, all the time. The fact that people in government have discovered ways to use it to their advantage to me, says nothing about Google.

Not that I agree with Google on everything they do. I dont. I think there are things they have done that violate their own, "dont be evil" guideline. But in this case, I think its just a matter of a tool becoming available, and someone in government figuring out how to use it to their advantage.

To me, the moral of the story here is, dont build a pool without the proper permits. Or, get politically active in your community so that no pools require permits if you dont like the idea of needing one. But dont just write an exception for yourself to existing rules. Either get active to change them, if they are unjust, or follow them.

Just my 2 cents.

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

Mark my words....some company will come up with "urban camouflage" pool covers, so that people can hide their non-permited pools

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I cannot argue with anything in your post. The Google becoming Government idea came from another article talking about Google and CIA working on a project for real time monitoring of the internet to predict the future (Webbot anyone???). It just doesn't sit well with me that this is happening. You are right, those New Yorkers getting fined should have had permits or advocated for permitless pools, but the means of enforcement is a step a bad direction.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Thanks for the idea, maybe I will get started on that!!

Here's how I tend to see the situation. Towns are feeling the economic bad times too and don't have the necessary funds to hire employees to enforce existing permit requirements. So instead they find a novel way to enforce them while spending less money and while probably sitting in an air conditioned office. The home owners were trying to get away with not paying the permit fee and were caught by satellite imagery instead of someone physically checking the premises. If the fees were payed in the first place there wouldn't be a need for the enforcement officers they can't afford in the first place. If people in general had self control we wouldn't need a lot of laws, rules and regulations in the first place. I see it as a money saving technique to get the fees the town deserves.

I'll play devil's advocate a little here. Since Google Earth is available to the general public as well as government entities would it still be looked at as Big Brother if a neighbor looked at GE and notified the authorities regarding the same pools in question?

I'm taking a bit of liberty saying that this particular town is in a state of financial crisis but it drives home the point I'm trying to make. Usually people are happy when tax payer money is resourcefully used but I guess the question comes at what cost. "Out of site, out of mind" isn't what it used to mean and times are changing.

PS: Awesome idea on the camouflaged pool covers!

Edit to add article on camouflaged pool covers in Europe


[edit on 8/2/2010 by Three_moons]

Fish and Game here does the same thing. Our newspaper here sometimes has this thing where you can put up different pictures of yourself. So say you catch a big fish you can put it on their website. Well my niece got a call because my sister put her picture up on the newspaper site and fish and game called her and was told she was either going to get a ticket or a fine because the fish wasn't legal, I think it wasn't long enough or something. After she got the call a bunch of pictures were taken off of the site apparently they were going through the pictures and fining/warning people if the fish wasn't legal.

www.adn.com...

not sure if it will work but I'm sure fish and game love that they still have it up it makes their job alot easier.

I dont see the problem here, you have to apply for a permit to build a pool in Riverhead, basically so you dont take it upon yourself to dig a large dangerous hole in your garden with possible disregard to power lines and water supplies.

Apparently this costs a small fee which some tinks/minks/chavs/rednecks.etc. try to avoid by not filing the proper paperwork.

The advent of aerial photography brings an end to their fraudulent pool tax evasion. Boo-hoo. What happened to the old fashioned system where your arsey neighbour would just call the town and grass off your illegal pool?

Next time build an underground pool. That'll show em !

Sad really! Once upon a time in America, you could put a pool in your yard (above ground or below ground) until someone had the brite idea to tax it via permit. It is time we the people stand up for our private property rights. This appears to me to be nothing more than an illegal search if you are specifically looking for something without a warrant. Even accidental discovery without the proper warrants seems to me to be a violation of our most basic fundamental rights as US citizens.

Any constitutional lawyers out there care to weigh in? Murderers get off on technicalities like this all the time don't they? The permitting process is a joke in MA, VT, NY, ME, NH and suspect a few states on the west coast. Go pay a few bucks and no one ever shows up to inspect anything. Lived in MA a few years back and they were going around looking for the big blow up pools that are approx 3-5ft deep and as much as 16ft diameter, and were issuing citations for lack of permits. No special wiring needed to be done, nor was there any digging involved. How does one explain that behind a fenced in yard?

I'm in ENY and I want to fill my pool in. But I have to get a permit, pay an electrician, pay to have all the rubble removed and then pay for fill dirt. It would cost more to fill it in than it does to drain it every year and pour in a bunch of chlorine.

I don't see a problem. Normally they would just use aircraft, but that is too expensive.

Here in california, I am pretty sure they still use aircraft to find people making illegal (no permit) additions to their homes. I think swimming pools fall in the same category of additions.

Just get a permit, it's that simple.

I see no problem either. I'd like to know that if somewhat doesn't have a permit for the vertible gene pools in .their backyards they are at least getting fined out the rear end...

... and really, what type of world do you live in where the rule-base mandates that "bad-guys" can use Google Earth, but "good-guys" are prohibited?

Just imagine your neighborhood/city if the city/state didn't require permits for ANYTHING.

It would be a hell hole. Not a nice place to live in. You'd really see everyone's stupidity physically represented in unsafe structures and obscene landmarks.

Originally posted by vtcajun
Sad really! Once upon a time in America, you could put a pool in your yard (above ground or below ground) until someone had the brite idea to tax it via permit. It is time we the people stand up for our private property rights. This appears to me to be nothing more than an illegal search if you are specifically looking for something without a warrant. Even accidental discovery without the proper warrants seems to me to be a violation of our most basic fundamental rights as US citizens.

Any constitutional lawyers out there care to weigh in? Murderers get off on technicalities like this all the time don't they? The permitting process is a joke in MA, VT, NY, ME, NH and suspect a few states on the west coast. Go pay a few bucks and no one ever shows up to inspect anything. Lived in MA a few years back and they were going around looking for the big blow up pools that are approx 3-5ft deep and as much as 16ft diameter, and were issuing citations for lack of permits. No special wiring needed to be done, nor was there any digging involved. How does one explain that behind a fenced in yard?

Uh... sure "No one ever shows up to inspect anything." and the next sentence after that includes " They were going around looking for the ... pools."

GREAT JOB, THERE, GUY.

Also, great job with comparing a pool permit to murder. You are amazingly awesome at intelligence.

... and, to add:

Unless your property is 100% isolated by space, time, and causality then it is NOT private.

Physics says there is no private property.

Quit living in a legal fantasy land. I bet you think Federal Reserve notes are real money too, huh??

No??

Uh-oh folks! We have a walking, talking contradiction on our hands!

reply to post by RestingInPieces


Resting - whoa doggy. wake up on the wrong side of Obama's bed? Insults, tisk tisk! If what I do does you no harm then why do you have to come onto my property and worry about what I am doing. If I want dig a hole and fill it with mud and wallow in it, what business is it of yours? And just to clarify I see nothing I wrote that compared the permitting process to murder. I simply drew a parallel between illegal searches without a warrant. Maybe it is you are the one who is the contradiction, between the words you read and your ability to interpret common sense.

And what is it about the physics says there is no private property comment? We are talking about personal space. A domain that I alone pay for. You want to come pay my mortgage, then you can lay down the rules. Until then, get off the "we are a collective" band wagon and come back to planet earth. Permit public areas and buildings. That is where what you do might do me harm.

The money comment meant to be an insult. As long as reserve notes are accepted at the local grocery store and neighborhood bar for the exchange of goods and services it is money. If they accept cow chips, you can call that real money too. It is called Consideration and is the price one pays for another's promise. Money, barter, service; call it what you like. Values rise and fall.

reply to post by RestingInPieces


Just one more thing RestingInPieces....I guess you were never taught that people really don't like condescending know-it-alls who are insulting to others when you may not like what they have to say. You can debate all you like, but name calling and the general holier than thou attitude has gotten old with many people in society. Civil debate i think is what ATS is all about. Opinions will vary. The ability to get your point across without the insults will earn you more respect than your current slash and burn attitude towards those who disagree with you. I wish you all the best in life and hope that you are able to let go of all the anger inside that obviously is eating at you.
If you did not understand what I was trying to say or maybe in the future with others, try asking for clarification on what they were trying to say. I have many friends that we disagree on things, but we debate them in an open and honest manner and with respect. I think RESPECT is something you have yet to learn in life.

This is what happens when you're just a share-cropper. You dont own your house or your land. You pay rent on it twice a year at least.

It all belongs to the king. How dare any of you believe otherwise.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You said it brother. Come next door to VT and see how much worse it is than NH. we keep importing MA tax and spenders over here making it worse. You arent too far behind with the Boston bunch flooding across the border to change the long NH tradition of Live Free or Die. in 2 weeks am back to Texas where some of our natural rights are still valued. will be good to go home again.