Followers Of Christ Are Submissive To Big Brother.

reply to post by daptodave


I'm apt to agree with that.

In Christianity, who is above God?
Moreover how are you a follower of Christ if you stand by while evil, aggression or whatever you want to call it moves unabated?

If I saw someone trying to knife a small child or another person, I'm not going to watch from the sideline with my mind on the idea that "vengeance is Gods."

I'm not going to at that point say, let evil doers continue to do evil.
Rather I'll probably use what resources I have and try to stand against the situation.

If that makes me a bad Christian than perhaps I'm lost.

reply to post by catwhoknows


To me being reviled has never felt so good.
Must be that brainwashing I'm put me under when I read the bible.

Honestly I don't care what people say about Christianity. It isn't the religion I'm after it's The perceived relationship.

But more to the point.
I wonder if something similar happened in Jewish synagogues before WW2.
Did the Nazis use similar tactics to subjugate the Jews? I'm going to look into that now.

reply to post by snowen20

Followers Of Christ Are Submissive To Big Brother.

If you're a true follower of Christ you're submissive to no one but Christ, Period.

Just sayin...

peace

What people really want to confirm is if The Bible is true or not. The Bible is like a calendar for mankind and many of the books inside it are like segments of time in history. Genesis for example, belong to our first generation and It doesn't apply to us, but is reference data that we must understand.

The current book now is The Book of Revelations, and is the one that has the power to confirms if the hole Bible is true. When the final prophecies will be fullfilled we will know it wasn't a lie. The problem then will be that is going to be too late to start believing.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by snowen20

 

As a Christian, I am discovering every day that the bible is full of lies.

Much as we find every day our government is full of lies.

So I am staying a Christian and forgetting the establishment lies.

Being a Christian is simple - it means helping your fellowman, not standing in judgement, and loving and caring for the world.

Easy.

This is it. The idea that being Christian is a slavish, robotic devotion to the literal word of the bible is one of the most obscene hijackings of human spirituality in history. Biblical literalism and fundamentalism that puts the written text of the bible at the center of things is relatively new. The bible was always valued but prior to a century or two ago, it was considered just part of the picture. "The devil can quote scripture" is a saying too many have forgotten. Biblical literalism = obsecne shortcut to critical thinking and ethical responsibility.

There seems to be a growing number of Christians who are wiping their feet, leaving the established congregations and going into the wilderness. It is my feeling that these individuals are making this personal exodus because they are led in spirit to do so.

Romans is filled with Paulian doctrine that does not resonate positively with me.

I accept Jesus's advice to give unto Caesar in that I understand that we all must live in the world, no matter how dark it becomes and so I comply with establishment laws as my conscience allows and will either embrace civil disobedience or exercise my individual or civil rights where it will not.

For instance, I was recently questioned by police officers about somebody else's misdemeanor. I was asked to provide my details. I challenged the officers by saying that I did mind telling them who I was as I had not committed any crime and was not connected with the miscreant. I was then advised that the police needed my details to 'rule me out' of any connection to the case that was 'nothing to worry about'. I gave my name, (they knew my address as this was the location of the enquiry), I told them my date of birth was irrelevant to their investigations and asked them to make a note of this in their electronic case notes.

Sorry to ramble personal anecdote but I do feel that too many churches in the world today are led by system slaves who have either never seen their original face or who are too intimidated by established, worldly law.

God will do with the wilderness Christians what He may and I believe we have been led out of the churches to fulfill an as yet undisclosed (to me) end times purpose not relating to the world of Men.

This was not Jesus speaking, it was Paul. At the time the Roman Empire was giving legal protection to both Christians and Jews. These passages are not words of commandments from Jesus, but are advice from Paul to the Christians of the day.

In essence, he is saying "The Romans are being good to us. Lets be good and peaceful citizens in return. God has given us this chance with a peaceful Roman government, lets not rebel and slap Gods gift horse in the face."

He was advocating submitting to their authority because at the time they were being just and not slaughtering them wholesale. Which unfortunately changed when Nero came to power.

To Illustrate the Context I am speaking of, Romans 1:7
"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

A letter of advice from Paul to the Christians in Rome. Not a Commandment from Jesus or God to submit to Tyrannical Governments. As they say, context!

reply to post by Chillimac


To the best of my knowledge no one has yet stated that such a statement was made by Christ himself, but that it was merely a sentiment used by followers of Christ.

When I say followers of Christ I'm speaking about those who attempt to live to their best ability a Christ like life and or modern day disciples of the same doctrines.

reply to post by snowen20


Christ would probably have dumped the bible under His feet and walked all over it.

He said love your brother, help others, and animals (OK I added that bit) and ignore what idiots write.

As long as we wage war, we are doomed - and we know that we will always wage war.

So, all I can say is try and help each other and try and love each other (ugh, difficult).

reply to post by catwhoknows



That makes sense to me. Hence that's why I think we should try to make our lives count for something while we have life to count.

reply to post by snowen20


Yes, love the ones you love and get on with your life.

Unfortunately we are warmongers.

the early christians were submissive, although they weren't too obedient, thus a bunch of christians submissively standing in the arena waiting for the hungry lions...
you can be submissive, without being obedient....
you just have to believe that your disobedience is the right thing to do in the eyes of god enough to be willing to accept the penalty the world decides you deserve for the act of disobeying.

Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by Chillimac

 

To the best of my knowledge no one has yet stated that such a statement was made by Christ himself, but that it was merely a sentiment used by followers of Christ.

"is the part in Romans where we are told to be submissive actually spoken by Christ? "

I was answering that.

"That if you do not submit you are not obedient to Christ, therefore you are not a follower of Christ. "

Your quote here I think illustrates it best. The words were not Christ's, therefore, as a follower of Christ, if I do not submit to (a presumably tyrannical) authority in the form of a man made government, I am not violating his teachings.

I am free to stand up and fight for what is right. In fact, Jesus himself made the government of his day angry enough to kill him.

Does this sound like a submissive government controlled zombie?
KJV Mathew 21:12
"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

14And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them. 15And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,"

Look at the language, he cast them out and overturned tables. He didn't just kindly suggest that they leave or submissively hope they would stop. He cast them out. Then he healed the sick and the authority there was...displeased.

So, no, a Christian does not have to idly sit by and 'take it', this whole sentiment was merely advice from Paul to Christians in Rome in order to encourage them to keep living peacefully with them. If a Christian does believe they need to be a submissive government controlled zombie, then that belief is not founded in Christ's teachings or his actions. But, as for your question in the OP, no I have not heard other Christians using Romans 13 to advocate submitting to the government.

reply to post by Chillimac


Granted, he was a rock and roller of religion... anytime anyone quotes something from the bible and looks at me expecting me to mess my pants in awe, i vomit a little more in my mouth.

Jesus had a religion - Judaism. Puritanical evangelistic preaching is what is the root of all conflict in this world. Jesus would be ashamed and disgusted at the churches of now.

Dave

First to be considered a Christian, all you need to do is believe that Jesus was born and died on the cross for your sins. Nothing more is required.

Second there should be a mass exodus from all so called church buildings, for Jesus said that when two or more are gathered in his name, he will be with us to guide us through our discussions and teachings.

Third and I agree with one of the other posters, the bible is a time line of history, the Old Testament and the new, with the New Testament Jesus rewrote the Ten Commandments. Most Jewish temples like most Jewish people are firm believers in the old testament and have not except Jesus as there Messiah. Jesus rarely taught at temple he would preach to the masses in the open not in a building.

The ten commandments were made even harder to follow by Jesus, example, do not commit adultery simple enough then Jesus says that even if you think about it you have committed the act. And so on it goes, as far as evil goes like the government or other party, Jesus says let those whom be without sin through the first stone, take the log out of your eye before noticing the splinter in someone else’s eye. And so on it goes.

Most Catholics will not on any circumstance enter the kingdom of heaven for many reasons. Take it from a person whom comes from a long line of Catholics, it is a religion of idols and not of God. It is a false religion in many cases, ask any priest why they join the Catholic religion, and first let me say the bible in every version ever written says no one shall be called father expect God period if that isn’t your first hint to run from the Catholic church than you are blind, second as I was saying most so called fathers will say the Charismatic mass was the reason to join the father hood, most Catholics have never even been to a Charismatic mass, they should go then run for there life. It follows the guide lines of satanic worship, with many chants and speaking in tongues flopping around on the floor and what not. They would say speaking in tongues is in the bible, yes but not by there definition, speaking in tongues is not gibberish, it is example, when I am with a bunch of Spanish speaking people and I do not speak Spanish, the wholly spirit will speak through me in there native tongue, but the devil worship is gibberish spoken in the tongues of demons.

Ok enough rambling from me,
May God Bless us all.

Originally posted by daptodave
reply to post by Chillimac

 

anytime anyone quotes something from the bible and looks at me expecting me to mess my pants in awe, i vomit a little more in my mouth.

I'm not sure what you mean here exactly. If your referring to my quoting the bible, the indent was not to make you mess your pants in awe. It was to illustrate how Jesus was not submissive to the authority of the day. And that a follower of Christ's teachings likewise is not obligated to be a slave to Big Brother, since that is the topic of the thread. And since its rather hard to recount Jesus' doings without looking at the Bible...

I would beware of vomiting in your mouth, I hear it can erode your teeth's enamel.

Originally posted by Chillimac

Originally posted by daptodave
reply to post by Chillimac

 

anytime anyone quotes something from the bible and looks at me expecting me to mess my pants in awe, i vomit a little more in my mouth.

I would beware of vomiting in your mouth, I hear it can erode your teeth's enamel.

lol Sorry I wasnt clearer. It wasnt directed at you... but you're right... bad for the teeth!

When government or powers that be disregard the original law of God than the people have an obligation to not follow that law. The founding fathers found that this was the right thing to do when they decided to rebel against there government which was the british crown. A Christian should not submit to nothing other than the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob. You can find many references to make this point I can look at Daniel and how he refused to obey the command of the king, and by his rebelion God blessed him and spared his life. The apostel Peter rejoiced that he was found worthy to be persecuted for Christ sake. He told the council that was they would not stop proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ. When the Government is mandating its authority over the people to break the laws of God than Christians are obligated to not obey. In fact we must disobey. A good reference in this is the former chief justice of the state of Alabama I forgot his name he was forced out of his job by the federal government for not removing the ten commandments from his court room.

Catwhoknows
Cat to say or describe Christ a reviled Man is to only narrowly describe Jerusalem's response which the word clearly mentions He warned the Apostles thricely and that further revealing His Providential prophecy.If you study His ministry He began with Galilee and worked His way down and many of the places were very appreciative yet He knew Jerusalem was His end.The Pharisees seemed the ones who were the most antithetic and that being they even rejected John's baptism which is why Christ has words attributed that harshly rebuked them thus even Christ uttered a few strongly scolding sermons.The Pharisees are what brought Him to Caiphus and the Sanhendrin made up of Pharisees and Saduccees.Not until Jerusalem's brass reflexed did the crowd corrupt and that Christ clearly prophecied.His Providence could seem cruelly unavoidable yet its completely one of a kind and if you believe its the earth's destination that answers Creation's question.It seems the deepest understanding is to understand what some call Glory which transcends the notion of popularity based on fickleness.Those that followed Him appreciated Him very deeply and that appreciation included the Apostles who witnessed His resurrection enough to submit their own lives seemingly diametrically.That's absolutely not being reviled other than Jerusalem.Take care and God bless the blessed!Absolutely no twisted parallels!
Absolutely straight forward!Gary V. Giardina!This sent before 9:21 P.M. Augsut 2nd 2010.Heh don't get me wrong I understand why you describe Him being reviled yet that was a specific bunch of people and not the beloved and inspired rest of the 1st. Century witnesses.

Firstly, in the United States, the king is every one. Our rights are recognized as inalienable and, as a group, we attested to this in document form. Connecting this teaching from the bible to our current system, I would tend to lean my understanding towards making defense of the original government that was established in this land and continues on till now, despite it's current abhorrence of the founding principles (being the precepts of individual sovereignty and collective consideration).

To state simply, true constitutionalists are the the most technically biblical regarding our current times. But what does that mean without understanding? And with understanding, might we move past technical arguments?

So then, in our current time, which truly exhibits the nature of our realm (wolves terrorizing the sheep, false shepherds leading sheep astray and beating the weak), the sheep call out for more leaders, or cry out for no leaders. However, part of the natural decay of our world is pride. This is where men, who are like you and I, set up unseen structures to support physical weights that it cannot hold. Once the weight of the Law of the Law (physics/nature) crushes pride, chaos ensues. Chaos, being the other form of decay, allows for a type of vacuum which pulls the cycle over to begin again.

The cycle of Empire is logical in this place of animals with godly powers. The real question we need to be asking ourselves is; How would a God with most of an animal's limits conduct themselves?

Please, recognize Life as Provider. Give Life.
Christ is surely the head of the Brethren.

Men and Women of Understanding will rebuild their worlds.
If you are concerned about the powers above causing strife, understand this: the world ended today. Begin again and set things straight. If you no longer tend to a plant which requires tending, it dies.

We are stuck in a desert waiting for our rescuer, tend to your land and rescue yourself while you wait true rescue.