Religion/Non-Religion Your choice, and why?

This is no way is to upset, or offend any members thoughts about the subjects below. This is more about getting people to discuss a subject that is near and dear to the hearts or believers and non believers.

Sometimes I read threads or speak to people that have a religion or don't, and they never really have an issue towards each other, its usually because they have issue with the bible, or a particular group of people in a particular religion.

What if we can choose certain pieces that are most discussed or unbelievable to people who choose not to have a religion, and discuss why some followed based on the same subject.

What if Mr.X became an atheist because of the story of creation? Not the story as a whole, but his interpretation of it. What if the same story that turned Mr.X away is the exact story that got Ms.Y to get into religion in the first place? But her interpretation was different?

What if this can be discussed in a manner of respect, compassion for others, and non-judgment? What if you could just see why this person believes or not, by listening to their side without prejudice towards their religion and more on their point of view?

I for one have lots of religious people in my family, and we have recently started a dialogue without the yelling and name calling, and started listening to why. Now I have a closer relationship with them, because we see each other as people and not religions.

We decided that we would discuss our views in a respectful manner, and believe that what we have to offer in our defense cannot be swayed by anyone, but can be discussed in order to come to the conclusion that though we may not agree we understand.

Our basic nature would be to seek out what we are, where were from, and where we are possibly to go. I personally have chosen to stay neutral, based on my lack of true knowledge, the knowledge that many of us are not aware of, but can be hidden or destroyed. I cannot make a claim, without all the facts.

I know that this can be discussed. I know that this is a touchy subject, and I know that people are afraid, but, what would happen if we decided to get to know our personal thoughts about the subject we care for. I don't mean the quoting of a scriptures, because those words are not your own, I mean a scripture, and then what YOU think of it.

We are all diverse in opinions and faiths, also for the atheists and agnostics. I would like to take people out of their zone of defend against the non believers, and more about finding out what got you there in the first place.

Here is a small story on how and why I decided to start this thread.

When I was young I was baptized Catholic, raised Pentecostal, moved around a lot, and ended up in a Baptist church. I was confused to say the least. I felt more comfortable in a Catholic church. I had a very rough childhood, and thought that religion was my way to a good place whether or not my journey was not as good.

But as I got older I started noticing that those that also went to church never really thought about helping me, or consoling me the way that I thought they would. Still I didn't turn away. I kept my faith, and though sometimes homeless as a teen, I went to church. I began to notice that though I was in need, that those who knew me, and were religious weren't really following the ways of the church.

They still beat their kids and got away with it, it just seemed to not fit. They still cursed, lied, drank, did drugs, and still had pretty decent lives, and while I suffered I went to church, and always thought that it was still going to be o k, because G-d was on my side.

I decided to leave religion alone when I was around 16, and never went back, but still my spirituality remained. I realized that I didn't need a church or church members in order to lift myself up, and do what was right. Years have passed and though I still will not go to church, I am open minded and loving, to all those who have beliefs of their own. My path may have not been yours, but that doesn't make me any less of a spiritual person as it does you.

My life, my family, my path, my home, is no less important because my faith is not yours. I have no right to judge you as you have no right to judge me, as long as you take your path honestly and openly, no one can take your beliefs away from you.

Now if there is some reason that some one can bring something to your attention and you chose to look further into it, its not a bad thing. Its about knowledge, its about bettering yourself and others around you. No one can take your faith from you. No one can take your belief in either a church a G-d, or anyone else for that matter away from you, it has to be given away by choice.

So why cant we give ourselves a chance to have an open discussion in a place that is known for some of the greatest mind in conspiracy, and make denying ignorance, and having understanding both be hand and hand?

Thank you for your time.

Peace to you...

I see how this subject matter would be a bit complicated. As I said in the thread above, it was not intended to bring anyone into a debate, it was just to help to clarify and maybe even dialog our views in a non aggressive environment.


Peace to you...

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
What if this can be discussed in a manner of respect, compassion for others, and non-judgment? What if you could just see why this person believes or not, by listening to their side without prejudice towards their religion and more on their point of view?

Though it is a very noble idea, it will never happen in this venue. Within 10 posts, someone will post how much more intellectual they are, than "Christians". The words "sheeple" and "stupid" will be thrown in and the thread will deteriorate into a plethora of name calling. Hate to be so cynical, but I've seen it more times than I care to remember.

I for one have lots of religious people in my family, and we have recently started a dialogue without the yelling and name calling, and started listening to why. Now I have a closer relationship with them, because we see each other as people and not religions.

Wow I was always told and have had personal experience with the two things you never discuss with family and friends. Politics and religion. I, sincerely, hope your discourses continue on a pleasant path.

S&F because I hope to be proven wrong about your ability to have a civil discussion on this topic, here.

[edit on 1-8-2010 by WTFover]

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I see religion completely different now than when I was younger. I see it as a tool for destruction, I see it as a tool for deception, I don't veiw any religion anymore and think, hey they got it right.

I know God exsists. I know it with every fiber of my being. But I do not think today's church's and temples and whatever have God in them. They are all either in it for money, power, deviance or dominance.

I figured out, we are all part of earth, and earth is part of us, and everything in it. That is pretty amazing. The deception is church. It takes you away from what is real, from feeling God's love in a sunray or listening to the ocean, things that make you feel peaceful.

No religion but Muslim follow the bible to the letter, if they did we would be sleeping with our brother in laws as soon as our husband dies, we would kill criminals on the spot, we think of these things as barbaric, and they are barbaric, but Muslims think they are doing to right thing because the Koran says do it. Christians dismiss the 'rules' laid out in the bible because they are not civilized. So they pick out the parts they want to use and preach about it.

That is not how God wanted it. I sit back, I talk to God time to time, I enjoy the beauty of this world and the creation and differentness of the people in my life, I see humor in a lot of what God created, he made some pretty funny species.

Good Post!

I am a follower of Christ. I do not go to church because many of them do not follow the teachings of Christ and are more of a "cult of personality" with the preacher, or a "job" for the sleaze who is there to make money off the congregation or get a free house, or worse yet a social club full of hypocrites.

I am quite jaded with "organized" church.

Why am I a Christian... well, everyone questions faith.. or at least I do.

The more "research" I do the more it all makes sense. The "days" of Genesis are "Ages", The Watchers (Book of Enoch & Jubilees not Bible) were the "gods of old" (Zeus, Ra, etc.). There were numerous Noah's Arcs and people who survived the great flood on Mountains (hundreds of flood stories from around the world).

The Monolithic Age.... What in the hell would motivate cultures from all over the world to build Gigantic a$s structures all around the same time utilizing multi-ton stones when these cultures really didn't associate with each other? Pure coincidence? Mayans and Aztecs didn't even have the wheel. Makes no sense. Anyway, creationism or intelligent design in "general" is an absolute to me. How many bugs are camouflaged to look like snakes and other predictors? Pure chance? And the insect world in general, stingers, venom, stick glands, shooting acid.... Gladiators of nature.

Anyway, why Christianity? Because the more I research the more I understand and see it all coming together and as the years pass, I see the Occultist / Satanist openly achieving power. Also, the young population is becoming faithless and openly hostile to anything to do with Christ. 30 years ago, I would not have believed this could happen so fast, the sheer speed of anti-christian sentiment and loathing has spread.

Not just disliking a certain church or denomination but outward hatred against Christ himself or anyone who dares to say they are a follower or believer in Jesus.

Research, learn, and observe what is going on around you. Check out the Lucis Trust and others. You would have to be freeking blind and dumb not to see what is happening.

www.realnews247.com...

my.opera.com...

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


"Religion/Non-Religion Your choice, and why?"


my answer is: Are we sure they aren't the same thing on at least one level?

i say i will choose whatever the two of those options can agree upon.


the alternative may really suck.


pleasentries,
et

Thank you for that you guys, that wasn't that bad was it. We can see everyone as people, but can also be appreciative to their opinions as beings that are overall looking for answers as well.

Peace to you all...

If you ask the question differently the answer will come on its own:

"Santa Claus/No-Santa Claus Your choice, and why?"



edit to correct Santa Claus, I keep spelling it "Clause" after that stupid
Tim Allen movie. :bnghd:



[edit on 1-8-2010 by tungus]

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I was raised a fundamentalist but after actually sitting down and reading through most of the Bible I found myself facing down things I KNEW were wrong. Slavery, genocide, killing children, all condoned by a God that I had been taught was loving and merciful. I realized that the Bible was just a flawed ancient book written by bronze age primitives and not the Holy source of wisdom I had been brought up to believe in.

After that I drifted into being a Deist.

Now I am an agnostic-atheist. So my answer is non-religion. Though it wasn't my choice, at least not all at once, it was more of a natural consequence of logic and reason gradually wearing away the indoctrination that had been fed to me. My Christianity gradually went away, I learned more and more about the world and the stories in the Bible became less and less relevant and made less and less sense.

Why did I choose non-religion? Because fundamentalist dogma leads to bigotry, hate and sometimes even violence. Religion is mostly harmless IF taken with a grain of salt, the issue only comes when people take it to extremes and drift into fundamentalism, radicalism and extremism.

As an American most people around me are at least somewhat religious but the majority of them are ordinary average people who don't take their beliefs to the extremes. As such I don't really mind normal believers, I'm only really concerned with the fringe zealots.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I pray that this thread doesn't disintegrate into hysteria, like most of them do...

I am a deeply devout Roman Catholic. I am 35 years old. Four children. I attend daily Mass every morning beginning at 8 AM. I have a wonderful, holy priest. He has holy hour every single day before Mass, which is a huge gift. I pray every day, read the Scripture, say Divine Mercy chaplets, litanies... many different devotions. I pretty much pray in my mind throughout the day. Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament will make a profound change in one's life.
I believe in prayers of intercession to Our Blessed Mother and the communion of Saints. Catholic Mass is a Liturgy of Sacred Scripture from beginning to end. We do not worship Mary or statues. If Jesus spent 30 of His 33 years in the care of His Blessed Mother, and only 3 years of public ministry, considering His last public addressed words were consecrating Her to our care, then I believe we should take Her into our care as He requested.
I believe and take great comfort and joy in the Sacraments, especially the Sacraments of the Eucharist and Reconciliation. I feel great grace from each. Confession to the priest is Scripturally supported, and it is a vital tool to keep Satan as far as possible from one's life. The Eucharist is indescribable to me. It is the source and summit of my life. Jesus Christ is there for me every single day. It is an embrace from Heaven.
I am at peace with myself. I worry only that people in positions of power in the world governments and banks, etc..., the UN, are totally being led astray and that we all need to be ready for when the crap flies... though I am not scared. I firmly believe that the Lord will protect us, through the intercessions of Our Lady, as He has done countless times in the past, or if my time is up, it is up. There will be nothing I can do to stop it.
Of course there are many in my parish who are not where I am at... who are judgmental, cruel, improper, mean... I will never allow the sins of people to drive me away from my Church or my faith. That is exactly what Satan delights in, every single day. Prayer is the answer to that... we must pray for all who don't feel the fire of that love for Jesus Christ or for God in their hearts. Never let the actions of the people in the pews drive one out of your devotions... that is a travesty.

I never judge a denomination on the actions of its people or its ministers... they are people, capable of sins.

God Bless you~

Religion because God is real.

reply to post by thegoodearth


That was very beautiful, its rare that one can speak about their faith from the heart, as opposed to the scriptures. Though I am not a religious person, I respect everyone in their choice and their path.

Peace to you...

reply to post by tungus


Please I am trying to get people to participate in a non bashing thread, this is close to allot of peoples hearts, I do not want anyone to feel that by participating in this thread they have to be made fun of.

If the topic of "Santa Claus/No-Santa Claus Your choice, and why?" is what I wanted to ask, then thats what I would have wrote.

Thank you.

NVM it's too painful to talk about it...

[edit on 2-8-2010 by ChickenPie]

reply to post by ChickenPie


I'm sorry about what happened. I get a sense your a strong person.

This is why I wanted to start this thread, its not always black and white on why some choose religion and others don't, some have lost love ones and never had religion in their life and then one day they experienced grief and they church helped them when no one less would.

Others feel secure when in church. While others have been wronged and don't want association with it. Its not always what you believe it is when some are asking questions, they answers might not be the same as the ones you got.

Every time someone in either a religion or non, does something heinous they represent others without their knowledge. Just realize that if half of us knew why we did or did not believe in religion, we would overcome allot of ill feelings, and see each other as decision makers of our own journey.

Peace to you...

Originally posted by ChickenPie
NVM it's too painful to talk about it...

No, no brother, fight pride...

it's satan's favorite human attribute.

Give your testimony, the meek shall inherit the Earth.

How should I explain my beliefs?

For starters I see myself as my own person then being religious or non religious. About half a decade ago I was a Christian/Muslim. Being a part of those two groups really changed me for the worse in life. Life was very depressing because I was mocked for being religious and when I searched others who were of similar faith they seem to not care for me also. Soon after that I just gave up my faith In God, Jesus and Muhammad. I remember ripping a part all my religious items: Bibles, Korans and everything else. I just hated being hated by others. Then I began my Emo wannabe Satanist quest in life. I also gave that up very quickly. Now I'm pretty much myself in life. I'm interested in a girl who is religious in her life but doesn't mind me being myself in my life. Life is weird.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
reply to post by tungus

 

Please I am trying to get people to participate in a non bashing thread, this is close to allot of peoples hearts, I do not want anyone to feel that by participating in this thread they have to be made fun of.

If the topic of "Santa Claus/No-Santa Claus Your choice, and why?" is what I wanted to ask, then thats what I would have wrote.

Thank you.

I am not making fun of anyone. I thought you wanted an answer to a
question. When a question is asked in a different way the answer becomes apparent. Unless, of course, you really don't seek an answer.
Peace.

Originally posted by tungus
If you ask the question differently the answer will come on its own:

"Santa Claus/No-Santa Claus Your choice, and why?"

Ah! 8th post. I knew I wouldn't be let down!

Although the other posts have been abnormally civil. Congrats, NRE, on a good thread.

reply to post by WTFover


Thank you, I was worried there for a minute to. I am relieved that those posters that were able to open up in this thread did so. It was a relief to know that there are some people out there that can share without the hostility that usually comes from these sorts of threads.

I hope that others can see that it didn't go bad and that they can share too.

I will also be sure to let others know that I in no way, shape or form except those who will act inappropriate in this thread.

I'm so proud of the members who contributed.

Peace to you all...