To all female ATS members, who support the ways of the middle east.

This thread reminds me of some muslim women I met who were handing out Qurans when they didn't even know the content of the book and looked fairly surprised at the aggressive language when I read it to them. They admitted they'd never read it before.

Yeah. I wish America was more like that, then my ex-wife wouldn't have been able to take me to court and rip me off for everything I was worth and take my kid under the rules of ME being in subjugation to her. Screw that! I would welcome keeping women in check. All they do now is manipulate men, steal from them and try to control them over here in America. They get everything handed to them by the government and courts for the most part....and it's all to humiliate us men so we will be passive and will have no fight in us against a tyranical government. I would welcome living in a country where women are subjugated to man like it was always supposed to be. For the women who don't do this crap to men.....you are exempt from my statement, but you 'three' remaining women are an example that i'm afraid won't be acknowledged by most women. I know I am not going to make many female friends by speaking the truth here, but then, i'm not looking for any. POWER BACK TO MEN!!!!!!!!!!! The rightful owners of all control! Empires by men through history stand tall, empires by women are destined to fall........as well as taking all empires down by men with them.. history is rife with this evidence.

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Phenomium]

Originally posted by Unity_99
There must be a way. The south had underground networks to get people to canada.

I understand what you're saying but keep in mind slaves were against oppression. Look at how many African Americans risked horrible punishment, even death, trying to escape. Yet they persevered.

I think the difference is what goes on in the home. Although slaves may have taught their children obedience=self preservation, I believe African Americans planted the seed of freedom first in their children.

I think hadriana got it right.

Originally posted by hadriana
I know a secret. Men don't oppress women all by themselves. Women teach their daughters. Women teach their sons.

ME women are teaching their sons to oppress and their daughters to be oppressed from birth. Until muslim women get a better handle on their children there simply is no hope. No amount of aid or bombings will ever incite change. So it is a societal condition that has gone on for generations.

I heard a story on link TV where little muslim girls as young as 10 were sent out in the streets to beg. It was not proper for the wife/mother to beg in public so the young daughters were sent out. I'm sorry but that's no better than the horrors of child labor that use to go on here. Kids alone didn't have a strong voice we all had to get on the same page and demand change. Maybe if enough of those young daughters get raped becoming burdens to their families due to their un-marriageable status maybe the parents will make better lifestyle choices.

Oppressed women have to stand up to their oppressors. Some will probably die, others will take some beatings etc. It's a tough road to freedom. My own grandma went from making lye soap out in the back yard staying barefoot/pregnant for most of her life to throwing out her husband and becoming a nurse. It was hard no one wanted to hire her except the doctor who saw the abuse she suffered. That gave her the strength to move forward but it came first from within her own community.

Originally posted by Morningglory
... Maybe if enough of those young daughters get raped becoming burdens to their families due to their un-marriageable status maybe the parents will make better lifestyle choices. ...

Sick. There's no other word to describe your comment. Your comment is sick.

You hope they have a societal breakdown, an increase in rape in a place where it's not now common, that innocent girls get raped, so that your vision of a more ideal society can be realized.

You don't understand their society, don't understand why rape is uncommon there, but you want to change it and you don't mind if girls get raped so it goes the way you want.

You have expressed what many actually feel, but most of them are too sly to say it openly as you did. Thank you.

reply to post by Phenomium


I take it that you have never been around baptists?
I am a very outspoken individual,when I am in church,
I remain quiet.Women are not suppose to talk in church.
Women are suppose to be under the authority of their
husbands.
You should become a member of a baptist church.Then
you will meet some nice christian girl who will make you
a great wife.

Originally posted by dreamwalker74
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Very simple. Women are continually treated as less than second-hand citizens in many countries across the planet. Yet the women in countries where they can legally speak out, without being killed, simply do not. Why is this? WHOLE POINT OF THREAD. Not to propogate war. Not to attack specific religions, but to simply ask, "why don't you care?" and "Why aren't you doing anything?". Or even simpler "Why are you supporting those that propogate this?"

Unfortunately, women are conditioned to look at the plight of their ME counterparts and say, 'How cool my life's better, I should be happy.' It's just another facet of forcing women into passivity, but how effective.

Seriously, what is the point of this thread? It's been established by the majority on this site and frankly common sense that no woman is going to support, nor should any man for that matter, the persecution, oppression, ownership, etc. of any woman or man anywhere in the world. OK....now what?

There are atrocities occurring daily everywhere in the world including the US. This does not mean it is the business of the US, or women, or men that live elsewhere to solve all of these problems. Further, doing so simply changes the oppressor. Who are we to say how they should live? If they want freedom, they will fight for it. If they want to leave the country, they will find a way. They spend millions of dollars and plenty of time forging documents all over the world in order to go blow something up -- perhaps they should use their fake passports and millions of dollars and actually do something constructive. But again, that's their choice.

I am also opposed to how non-Native American women are treated when they marry a Native American man, move onto a reservation, have a child, and then want a divorce. Do you know how that goes? Most of the time, the woman is banished from the reservation and ex-hubby and child remain on the reservation. Visitation is shakey, if even existent, at best. Unfortunately, this happens in the US.

I'm not saying that Native Americans and Middle Easterners are the same at all. What I am saying is that there are cultures and customs within our own border that I think "cross the line", but again, who am I or who are you to make that determination?

The first Supreme Court case dealing with ICWA was the 1989 case Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians v. Holyfield (490 U.S. 30, 109 S.Ct. 1597). This Court ruled that the ICWA gives the tribal court exclusive jurisdiction over a case where the parent was domiciled on the reservation, no matter what their own personal desires are in the custody case.

en.wikipedia.org...


I really think we need to clean-up our own darn country before we begin telling others what to do or worse, doing it for them. There is a huge difference between providing support for a movement and forcing the movement to happen.

Nothing that isn't fought for and earned on one's own is ever as valued as it is if your ancestors and your blood helped accomplish it.

Toppling a regime is more than simply crumbling a statue as we saw in Iraq. That is only the beginning. It takes decades and generations to build a democracy and as we are all seeing now, a constant battle to maintain it.

It can't simply be captured by a foreign government and displayed as a trophy for all to see. Unless you believe in it, unless you continue to fight for it, and unless you are willing to band together with your neighbors to make it happen, it never will.

The perfect example of this is our own Constitution. Without people constantly fighting for what it represents, it is nothing more than a piece of paper. If nobody believes in it, if nobody fights for it, it is worth nothing. It, alone, does not provide us with our freedoms. It outlines the freedoms We The People want to live by. It is up to each generation to ensure it continues to do just that. Simply "giving" a Constitution to another country and telling them to simply live by it goes against everything it stands for and everything it is supposed to represent.

Democracy, freedom, and equality is a way of life not a singular battle in which one can simply declare victory.

Originally posted by Alxandro
A picture tells a thousands words.
The current cover of Time magazine is shocking.

The front of US magazine Time this week reveals a stomach-churning example of the horrific violence being inflicted on women in Taliban-controlled areas of Afghanistan.

Read more: mirror.co.uk

Culture. Ain't it GREAT?

reply to post by oniongrass


Rape is uncommon there....if you don't define what their "husbands" do as rape. And you apparently don't.

ok stop posting that time magazine picture thinking its cool to gross us out ok?
2 i would love to marry a women that lived there,couse she would atleast appretiate my goodness and blablabla,not like these kesha emo crapsters here,that i have to wair tatoos to make them like me
3 any woman that supports how they treat theyr wifes is downward retarded,they have theyr wifes like slaves,they HAVE NO RIGHTS.
sometimes i wish the position gets reversed,all muslim women come to democracy,and all our women go and become muslim women,that would be awesome

Originally posted by Stillalive
ok stop posting that time magazine picture thinking its cool to gross us out ok?
2 i would love to marry a women that lived there,couse she would atleast appretiate my goodness and blablabla,not like these kesha emo crapsters here,that i have to wair tatoos to make them like me
3 any woman that supports how they treat theyr wifes is downward retarded,they have theyr wifes like slaves,they HAVE NO RIGHTS.
sometimes i wish the position gets reversed,all muslim women come to democracy,and all our women go and become muslim women,that would be awesome

Besides, Western women have heels. Oh how 'free' they are, lol

Originally posted by crazydaisy
Perhaps we should focus on what goes on right here at home. Domestic abuse is rapant in the US - shall I take some time to tell you about my 16 years of hell?

Daisy I went through that too, that is partly why it is hard for me to look away when atrocities are being perpetuated on women world wide.

indyposted.com...

remembering, Neda

The women will have to take a stand.

So, has this thread become a reason for continuing the war now? Are women subjected to abhorrent acts of violence and suppression throughout the Middle East? Yes, they are but war is certainly not a means to an end. It hasn't worked with terrorism and only perpetuated the problem.

I believe that this is a very important topic to discuss, but it needs to be framed in a better opening post.

tell you the truth man,with all the nwo and obama,middle east is FREERER then usa.
i would be more free to live in iraq lol!
no need for me to get into sexism,its just that middle eastern folk treat theyr women like crap,and if i want a woman who will apretiate me i would go there and buy one. this apperations here will just drain me and divorce me and took all my stuff.
who knows,once a woman becomes free she may get worse but im doubting.
since women are free most of them really become awfully arrogant,and treat man like crap. its really hard not to hit a woman when she is screaming in your face and trying to attack you.

The title of this thread suggests that the OP has run across examples of ATS females supporting the Middle East actions of violence against women.

Yet here we are on page six, and the OP has failed to show us one single example of females on ats who support the ways of the Middle East.

Once supplied, we can better debate the issue.


I would also like OP to define the vague word "ways" as it applies to the topic. What "ways" of the Middle East are specifically being supported by ATS females?

reply to post by Aeons


Dear god,

What I am posting is off topic, but I watched a program this weekend where they pretend to be hazing students and the reactions of the passers by,

People were more concerned about the mens welfare that were being hazed, but did little to help the women.



[edit on 113131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Morningglory


Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment --

Women have progressed in the Middle East since there have been female suicide bombers in the last year or so. A job that used to only be secure in the hands of a man, now is becoming OK for a woman as well. Granted, there have only been a few out of hundreds, but it is progress.

Unfortunately, it is not the progress "we" have in mind for them.

The underlying theme to this thread that people want to forget, is that we are not saying we will help women to progress, we are really saying we should help women progress in the way that we see fit.

What would happen if the women in the Middle East said -- please...I want to be a suicide bomber like my husband was....

Would we still want to help then? Or are we really saying, as long as you choose the lifestyle we think is acceptable we want to help you? I chose a drastic scenario on purpose.

We continue to assume that "our way of life is best" and that "everybody wants to live and be free like us", but the real question is -- Is that even true?

reply to post by lpowell0627


Sure - you rape them, then they have no other legitimate way out. They can only atone by becoming martyrs for Allah. Great system.

Almost as good a parents giving up their mentally retarded daughters to the cause to wear suicide jackets.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Phenomium

 

I take it that you have never been around baptists?
I am a very outspoken individual,when I am in church,
I remain quiet.Women are not suppose to talk in church.
Women are suppose to be under the authority of their
husbands.
You should become a member of a baptist church.Then
you will meet some nice christian girl who will make you
a great wife.

A wife? No thanks, been there done that. I have been to Babtist churches, Quaker churches etc. as far as I can tell EVERYONE (men and womena) are silent in the churches, the only guy that talks is the preacher. Not a lot of protesting while he is preaching. Anyway, in America having a wife is like losing an arm....you start with it, it's a great and useful part of your arsonal and just like the arm you lose, so goes all of your stuff when you wife leaves......even if SHE is the one who cheated on you, she still gets everything handed to her by the courts including all children.....as a man, the rest of your life is not living.....it's just surviving. I don't want a wife anymore, I just want a pet. A female I can use, gain her trust and then crush her. Not gonna get church mixed up in this. I simply just want women everywhere to be depressed. Especially women from Texas.

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Phenomium]

reply to post by LarryLove


I am against war also, what do you suggest?

I know highly educated individuals that follow these arcane religious laws,

If they cannot figure it out what hope is there?

I suspect submissive is exactly where they want their wives.

I am old school and not at all a womens liber and take very good care of my husband, because I love to,