Florida church's 'Burn a Koran Day' brings Islamist threats

Originally posted by muftanan
No one's building a shrine dedicated to terrorists! Mosques promote PEACE and justice! There's 1,209 mosques in the US--they are NOT harboring terrorists.

Have you asked yourself....why there?
We are supposed to never depict mohammed in any way and be sensitive to their religion and culture but when it comes to the ONE THING that is sensitive to us, we get the middle finger.

Oh and yes in some mosques, there are terrorists and/or extremists. I'm sure it's the minority and I know the vast majority of muslims are peace loving people who just want to live their lives, but lets face it, islam has been hijacked by extremists.

They promote scholarly, moderate views of Islam and provide services for the local muslims. Yes, there are local muslims. They need a place to worship. It's hard to find real estate in NYC, and now they have a chance. Yes, the terrorists of 9/11 were Muslim, but that has NOTHING to do with the muslims who are building this center OR the victims who died on 9/11.

How many mosques are in the immediate surrounding area?

And, it's not even primarily a mosque--it's a community center with a prayer area for muslims. It includes "fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court), a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant and culinary school, cultural amenities including exhibitions, education programs, a library and art studios, childcare services, a mosque (intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community), and dedicated meditation rooms" (Park51.org). It's like a YMCA or Jewish Community Center. It's open for any and all New Yorkers to use.

Great then they should donate it to the YMCA

But hey, you know what IS insensitive. The fact that there's a strip club even closer to ground zero than the Cordoba House site.

yeah and those extremist strippers blow up buildings and kill innocent Americans all the time !

And the burning of the Koran is insensitive and, as a Christian, I feel this church in Florida is setting a very un-Christ like example. That is why Christian groups are coming down on them as well.

AGREED! However, the burning of a Quran and the building of a mosque are 2 opposite things. Burning a Quran is an act of HATE and INTOLERANCE. Building a mosque is a sign of UNDERSTANDING between muslims and non-muslims in the community.

Building a mosque on ground zero is not an act of understanding. It's a way for extremists to plant their flag at their place of victory. Where did all that money come from to build that complex ??? You'll be surprised when that info comes out.

But now we see a group threatening murder in retaliation. And nobody seems to care.

Seriously? Did you not read oozy's reply:

How about saying, "the vast majority of people don't seem to care. Is that better?

Originally posted by muftanan
We allow neo nazis to have their say.
We allow mosques to be built at ground zero even though its a big middle finger in our faces.
We allow racist speech.
etc...
we have to protect those more distasteful things so we can ensure we keep our CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS.

I agree we have freedom and all is protected, but how on Earth could you compare mosques to neonazis and racism?!

Because most Americans find those things distasteful.
And I'm not saying all mosques am I ? Just the ONE mosque at ground zero.

Have you ever BEEN to a mosque?

Yes.
I live in Michigan which has the largest American Arab population in the US. Many of my clients are arab. Most are great people.

They're places of worship--places of peace! They don't allow HATE, like neonazis and other racists!

Never said they did. Just that ONE mosque at ground zero...that's the ONLY mosque I have a problem with aside from ONE mosque in Detroit.

if we draw a simple picture of mohammed (south park), people are threatened with death.

Yes, those are the extremists.

I know.

Mosques are being built to fight ignorance and insecurity among muslims, so that they will not follow extremists. Please don't assume that all Muslims are advocating violence. It was only the few on that 1 particular website.

I never said all muslims are advocating violence but I also know it's not just a few extremists...we're talking about millions upon millions of violent radicals who have perverted islamic teachings and have hijacked the religion and culture.

We can draw a picture of jesus having sex with barnyard animals and it won't even make the news

That's just sick, but anyway,

My point exactly.

it won't make the news because much of the MSM is busy promoting islamophobia.

Mainly FOX News which is owned by the republican reich.

But hey, I can find some controversies about Christians making death threats over insults of Jesus Christ if you want:

And did comedy central CENSOR him ? Did russell stop telling those jokes? Probably not because those threats are rarely taken as seriously as the muslim EXTREMIST threats.

Now, what about these threats against Muslims that don't get "plastered all over" the news:

Possibly because those types of death threats are usually not followed through on. We know that those extremists will fly planes into buildings. When was the last time a group of christian extremists killed thousands of people by flying planes into buildings ? How many christians do you hear about blowing themselves up with suicide bombs? That's the difference.

Is any threat of violence right? Of course not ! Should they be prosecuted just as vigerously ? Of course they should.

Houston Talk Show Host says he "hopes it's blown up" (referring to Ground Zero Mosque) -----where's the outcry over THIS?!

www.chron.com...

If this is correct, This is just as vile and his boss' should fire him for his hate speech.

There are extremists and terrorists within all groups. These people don't represent Christianity just like muslim extremists don't represent Islam.

But again there is a difference. When was the last time a christian group attacked the US and killed thousands of it's citizens? Destroyed buildings? Attempted to attack our capital? etc... ?

Why is it ok for these extremists to dictate law in another country based on their religious views? Why isn't EVERYONE angry about this ????

They're not angry because extremists are NOT dictating law! We're fighting them in Afghanistan and elsewhere to stop them from imposing their views.

Evidently you don't understand what I'm saying. Please reread my post. If you still don't get it, let me know.

Seems we are both patriots and love the freedoms our country provides are not willing to allow others to trample on them.

I'm sure, and no one denies this. But look at it from the perspective of the Muslim minority in the country.

Ya know what ? I'm tired of looking at it from their perspective. I've done that for quite a long time now. Just once, how about they look at it from my perspective? Why do WE always have to take THEIR feelings into consideration but it's never the other way around?

There's all the hatred against them, insults at their religion, and protests against their mosques. Heck, the mosque in my community gets vandalized every couple years. These people live in THIS country because there is more freedom here than elsewhere. They're not trying to impose themselves on society.

I think you're missing the whole idea behind my posts. I know the vast majority of muslims are not terrorists or even extremists. I'm ONLY referring to those muslims who ARE terrorists and ARE extremists.
I see mosques and churches alike vandalized on a pretty regular basis. I find both to be just as vile.

Im a Christian... But I would rather be beheaded, shot, blown up, gutted in the street, than associate with someone who would burn the holy book of another faith in protest. What an impotent and pathetic group. They should be ashamed of themselves.

To be honest , strong as my faith is... I think the best thing for the world would be if all who take up arms in the name of faith, or through fear of it, were dead. That would surely leave only persons who would fight for freedom, the only cause worth anything on this insane planet.

reply to post by jfj123

lets face it, islam has been hijacked by extremists.

Let's face it, America has been hijacked by rapist, murderers, child molesters, racists, thieves, torturers, pimps and gangsters.

but it isn't all Americans, most Americans are peace loving people who just want to live their lives, these are just mere small minority.


It is easy to copy FOX news, but you forget, they do it in TV because no one can respond to their toxic and hateful rhetorics. Down here, everyone will give you a shot.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by alien]

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by jfj123

 

lets face it, islam has been hijacked by extremists.

Let's face it, America has been hijacked by rapist, murderers, child molesters, racists, thieves, fags, torturers, pimps and gangsters.

but it isn't all Americans, most Americans are peace loving people who just want to live their lives, these are just mere small minority.


It is easy to copy FOX news, but you forget, they do it in TV because no one can respond to their toxic and hateful rhetorics. Down here, everyone will give you a shot.

Obviously I am not copying from FOX and obviously you know that if you actually read my posts.

Also, just curious but where is , "down here" ? and what do you mean by, "shot" ?

Also please keep in mind there is a difference between crime which every country has and an actual WAR. If you want to say that America has been hijacked by "rapist, murderers, child molesters, racists, thieves, fags, torturers, pimps and gangsters.", that's fine but this statement also applies to EVERY country in the world including yours.

Again, there is a difference between internal crime and a declaration of war by an outside power.

[edit on 6-8-2010 by jfj123]

reply to post by AshleyD

you have a point there, but still two wrongs don't make a right. Pitty we all forget we have ears, and instead use our mouths before them

reply to post by jfj123

Again, there is a difference between internal crime and a declaration of war by an outside power.

By down here I mean ATS, by shot, meaning give a shot at showing your ignorance.

Internal crime VS declaration of war

Declaration of war against Iraq and Afghanistan? The Terrorist attacks against Pakistan (hence the drone attacks)?

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by jfj123

 

Again, there is a difference between internal crime and a declaration of war by an outside power.

By down here I mean ATS, by shot, meaning give a shot at showing your ignorance.

Internal crime VS declaration of war

Declaration of war against Iraq and Afghanistan? The Terrorist attacks against Pakistan (hence the drone attacks)?

You were talking about internal crime (ie crime that happens within a countries own borders), and an attack on the US by a foreign power as an act of war. Had 9/11 not happened, do you honestly think we would be in afghanistan right now? Of course not !

Sorry but your argument just doesn't float.

You may have noticed but the dozens of posts in the other threads have not. They have been very one sided about the insensitivity of Christians without every stopping to think perhaps a mosque in the area of a terrorist task is also offensive.

Seems to me that a whole religion has been borne with the responsibility
of 9/11.
I've noticed it been said that contributors of this forum are entitled to their own opinions on what happened on 9/11, so does the above statement mean that believers of the official story (to whatever level) tar all Muslims with the same brush?

That way of thinking lead to countless problems personally experienced by myself in my neck of the woods

en.wikipedia.org...

Please look at the parallels between the two stories and see where this is going to lead.

People need to calm down and think this through.

2cents

Originally posted by AshleyD

And for a preemptive rebuttal: Just like the building of a mosque is deemed to be insensitive and a slap in the face, it still falls under the freedom of religion. Likewise, the burning of a Koran is something I feel is dangerous and just as insensitive but it still falls under the freedom of protest.

You can't have it both ways.

Indeed! Well stated AshleyD!

IRM

I have a better idea to restore world peace:

All church leaders should just tell their congregations that God doesn't exist the way that all churches portrays it to exist, and that Jesus may have been a plagiarism of the old ancient Mithras, Horis, Chrisna, etc saviors (not saying that he didn't exist, but examining the story lines from previous saviors comes so close to Jesus' story line that it make it very questionable, and I am a guy that likes to work with absolute proof, not 'blind faith'). Then after all church leaders tells their congregation the truth, tell them that further congregating reunions will not be about religion any more, but for ways to better the world and our self without any more 'blind faiths', but based on science, the truth and absolute knowledge that could lead mankind to save it self if things like the 2012 predictions were to come true.

As for the other religions, such as islam, etc, have them do the same as my primary example, and have them congregate to find ways to better the world.

That way, no churches have to close, just do a massive change of 'doctrines' not longer based in a book called the Bible or the Koran or how ever you call it, but based on common sense, the bill of rights, and the law, and science.

THAT way, I can guarantee you that there wont be any more killings and wars because of differentials between ignorance (aka Religions)

//Edited to correct a few misspellings.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by FNetV1]

U americans make me laugh ur goverment orcastrates mass murder on live t.v then say it was a man in rags in a cave in the mountins and everyone believes it
then they say thers wmd's in america swore blind ther wer 7 years later no wmd's
then they put a black MUSLIM preident to control the country and hes done nothing new then the old ones
im not preaching because the british are just as bad the diffrence is we know wen the goverment is lieing to us its like u lot lost that selfawareness from u wen u left england
god save the queen

reply to post by satnav_c-1

...she aint no human being, and there's no future....

just sayin'

anyway you regurgitate the tripe that the far right spews about Obama being a Muslim (all caps so I figure you mean it) and you laugh at us Americans for being gullible. wow. I love the English by the way, not a hater. I just find it amazing that you believe (like an astounding number of Americans) that Obama is a Muslim. He's not. He pays lip service to Christianity, so officially, he's a Christian. Really, he's like most educated Americans, a secular humanist. Thank goodness for that, too.

reply to post by hinky

'Well, the Muslims sacked the library at Alexandria Egypt and burned every last book. I guess, what goes around comes around.

I personally don't object to hot dogs and marshmallows. If you wrap some corn in foil, and put some shrimp on the barbie, it could be a very nice buffet.

They were just talking about this on CNN and you know what? That preacher has not even read the Koran! You should never burn what you have not read.

So basically they are inciting the same outrage that would occur had a mosque had a bible burning session.....

Why do we have to breath the same air as these people and that is coming from a Christian!

I am a peace loving person - I do not agree with any of this garbage from either side. Religion has become nothing more than a flag to promote violence. I will be home on 9/11 hoping that the families of those that lost loved ones can find peace of mind and shelter from what is happening in this world.

While I 100% disagree with the burnig of the koran at this church. He is following a tradition that Christians performed it can be found in the book of

Acts ch 19 vs 19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

So if they look at the koran as a evil book, then they wouold just be doing what the early Christian converts did.

reply to post by humbleseeker


Your close, but I think you kinda missed the point of that verse.
Those that burned the books were recent converts that realized their previous practices were wrong.
So, in that context, if you had a bunch of Muslims convert to christianity, then the parralel to that scripture would be for them to burn their korans...however a bunch of practicing christians to accumilate and burn this book is just inciting retaliation...
But it has been effective in helping the world realize that "extreeme" muslims are much more commonplace than this 'minority extreemist group' that most of the MSM and politicians keep trying to say.