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The simple reality of 9/11, what we know and what we don't

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posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
NO, the ATC were not "confused". NOT by Operation Vigilant Guardian.


Then by one of the other wargames going on that morning. You've never seen the quotes, along the lines of, "Is this real world or exercise?" Looks like you're the one spreading half-truths and misinformation if you're trying to imply this never happened, and no one was confused by the wargames.



AS TO the bit about Cheney, in the "bunker"? Another (intentional) misinformation from the "conspiracy" websites, but for what reason?? No one knows.


Do you know where Cheney was when all of this was happening? He was taken to the Presidential Emergency Operating Center in the basement of the White House.


The President's Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) is a structure that lies beneath the East Wing of the White House in the United States. Originally constructed for President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II, it is presumed to be designed to withstand fifty nuclear blasts and is likely to be the president's evacuation point in the event of an incoming ICBM (the main protocols of escape are of course highly classified).


en.wikipedia.org...


You don't have to put "bunker" in quotes like you're mocking someone. This mother WAS a bunker.


A military bunker is a hardened shelter, often buried partly or fully underground, designed to protect the inhabitants from falling bombs or other attacks.


en.wikipedia.org...


What other half-truths and misinformation from you, "WeedWhacker"?


It is well established that Cheney's orders were to "protect the House at all costs". This, of course, refers to the White House. It indicates that he had authorized (although not yet gone up the military chain of command, as little time had yet elapsed, and uncertainty still reigned) the shoot-down of airliners that seemed intent on impacting the WH.


The job he was "supposed" to be doing is NOT an indication of what he was actually doing. There is no evidence he actually ordered the shoot-down of any plane. Norman Mineta's testimony does not wash with Cheney trying to defend anything, as they monitored the plane approaching DC the entire time with an order that 'still stood' just to make his aide nervous, and ultimately allow the Pentagon to be attacked.



Also, the timing of those remarks by Cheney, are uncertain....in some cases it seems that AAL 77 had already impacted the Pentagon, and the concern was regarding UAL 93, still 'inbound'...PLUS any others that may have been still out there, but as yet undetected!!!


Was United 93 ever 50, 30, and 10 miles out from the White House? (No -- it crashed 124 miles away.)


There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, 'The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out.' And when it got down to, 'The plane is 10 miles out,' the young man also said to the vice president, 'Do the orders still stand?' And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?' Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant.


But maybe you know better than the people who were actually there, presumably using some type of equipment for this purpose?

Only you seem to be "uncertain" about what flight was being referred to.


Unfortunately for the "truth" search, too many seekers neglect to do a FULL search


Ditto. And some people are arrogant on top of that, and think they ALREADY know everything and their work is done. COUGH COUGH




posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Jones' paper was not peer reviewed by any analytical chemist or it would have not been published. It is fatally flawed on many levels and it is internally inconsistent.
Jones is either loathe to admit his errors or is blinded by his desire for celebrity.

There is no evidence of thermite at the WTC.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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There are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia....they don't allow churches and synagogues to be built in Saudi Arabia...........

Now, that's what I call staunch political correctness. Whether I agree with the Saudis or not, I have to hand them an infidel's head on a platter that what they say, goes in their country.

You don't see Saudis filming moon landings and 9/11 type terrorist acts on a secret sound stage. You don't see them doing that because...well....they won't let you watch. Pure and simple.

But what's to watch? I mean, the whole Zapruder Film thing showed Aemrica that you can't believe what your eyes behold. The President of the United States could be hit in a massive crossfire right before our eyes, but the official version is what we are told to believe.

From the Zapruder Film to allt he films of airplanes supposedly crashing into the Twin Towers, America eagerly awaits the official version of what happened. The people can't be trusted to draw their own conclusions. That would create chaos. There's a much more orderly way to life in abject political correctness: "This is what you saw. Believe it."

Or, as John Belushi said, "Are Americans quitters? Did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

I don't know about the rest of you, but as for me, I sleep well at night. Because I know there are faithful experts creating the 'Truth' for us in think-tanks all across our nation's university campuses. I know these 'Truth' makers are highly trained. They want only what's best for me. And you. If you only accept their word as gospel.

I suspect that a future history book is being written that will depict the falling of the World Trade Center Towers to a catastrophic earthquake that violently shook New York City. I know that our future generations will sleep equally secure knowing that earthquakes are bad, but they don't always happen. Like, maybe once every ten thousand years will an earthquake topple skyscrapers in the Big Apple.




Pat Condell is a British stand-up comedian, but this video isn't comic,
it's pure truth, and utterly brilliant.
Click here:
www.jihadwatch.org...



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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Here's my take. You got two of the world's tallest buildings on fire and another apparently on fire. High Rise fires are notorioulsy hard to put out with conventional wisdom.

So are you guys telling me we simply got lucky they fell? And fell in a way that didn't do that much damage to surrounding areas? Because those towers would still be burning today if they didn't fall. What were they going to do? Let them burn themselves out?

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Come Clean]



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by mark-in-dallas
 


NO, the ATC were not "confused". NOT by Operation Vigilant Guardian.


The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States investigated the possibility that Vigilant Guardian preparations compromised the military's response to the attacks on September 11. They concluded that the exercise may have had, in fact, the effect of expediting the response to the attacks.


Source for the above, and snippet below:


But your statment, sourced from a Government Agency is believable? Yeah right!



Originally posted by weedwhacker
This next statement?? It is so wrong, it causes one to wonder just WHY any website would ever put out such incorrect information, in view of hte fact that a simple bit of research shows it to be false:



Not a single fighter aircraft was scrambled to find out why the planes had flown off course, turned off their transponders and cut communications.


Yeah, scrambling fighters after the attacks were completed does lots of good, doesn't it?


Originally posted by weedwhacker
AS TO the bit about Cheney, in the "bunker"? Another (intentional) misinformation from the "conspiracy" websites, but for what reason?? No one knows.

It is well established that Cheney's orders were to "protect the House at all costs". This, of course, refers to the White House. It indicates that he had authorized (although not yet gone up the military chain of command, as little time had yet elapsed, and uncertainty still reigned) the shoot-down of airliners that seemed intent on impacting the WH.


If Cheney wasn't in the PEOC, then where was he? Even the 9/11 Commission places him in the bunker! And flying within a mile of the White House posed no threat? And his only concern was in protecting the White House, not the Pentagon, Capitol or any other landmark buildings?

Well established where? It indicates? How about a source please?



...Dick Cheney was sitting in the PEOC being advised of another hijacked plane flying toward Washington and being continually updated as the plane closed in, but refused to do or allow anything to be done to stop the aircraft from flying within 1 mile of the White House at a very low altitude and slamming into the Pentagon.



Originally posted by weedwhacker
So, the actual sequence of events, there, seem to be inaccurate as well....the way the ATS member posted them (likely just repeating from what he/she read somewhere).


Innacurate according to who and what? Did you watch the flight path on TV? I did! Care to provide a conflicting explaination, or are you just trying to disccredit me, based on nothing other than your own contradictions?



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 12:26 PM
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"The insurance policies obtained in July 2001 for World Trade Center buildings 1, 2, 4 and 5 had a collective face amount of $3.55 billion. Following the September 11, 2001 attack, Silverstein sought to collect double the face amount (~$7.1 billion) on the basis that the two separate airplane strikes into two separate buildings constituted two occurrences within the meaning of the policies."

Larry Silverstein

If I took out an insurance policy on my house and it burned down two months later I would be up under the jail.

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Come Clean]



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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9/11 is presently a conspiracy theory - eventually documents will be leaked, released or the elite will disclose what it was. Until then we have all this evidence.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by mark-in-dallas
 


Mark....you do know how far away Andrews AFB is, from the Pentagon....right?

It's there, on Google Maps...

So....again, NO anti-missile defenses AT the Pentagon. Still checking to see just what that is in the picture linked form Google Earth.

(Some airports use "guns" --- firing blanks --- to shoo away birds...just a thought).

www.jod911.com...



[edit on 31 July 2010 by weedwhacker]



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by airspoon
First, I'd like to mention that I have nothing to gain by opposing the OS. In fact, it brings me great sadness and imposes many more sacrifices than I have already given and more hardships that I would ever want. You see, I have much more invested in 9/11 than the average person and it would actually serve me well to believe in and promote the OS,


Agreed, there is not much to gain by 'disbelieving' the OS. Sleepless nights, questioning everything you took for granted. Being labeled, and thus diminished or dismissed.

The OSers would have you believe it's some lucrative and opportunistic deal where you can make a buck off 'disbelievers', when in fact it's a painful process of reinventing yourself and then living with it.


My unit was the first unit called to make Al Qaeda answer for the atrocities of that day.


How soon after 911 were you deployed? Were there FOBs in place when you got there?

Some of the discussions here have suggested troops were deployed in the region prior to 911. Is this your experience?

Thank you for your service to our country, may we see the day that these wars end.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by pteridine
Jones' paper was not peer reviewed by any analytical chemist or it would have not been published. It is fatally flawed on many levels and it is internally inconsistent.
Jones is either loathe to admit his errors or is blinded by his desire for celebrity.

There is no evidence of thermite at the WTC.

Would you agree that FEMAs findings of "evidence of severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with intergranular melting" on steel samples from WTC7 and that "no explanation for the source of sulphur has been identified", is evidence of incendiaries, especially thermite? As far as I'm aware, sulphur is consistent with the use of thermite. Also, to my knowledge, Jones' peer-reviewed paper on thermite has yet to be debunked by anyone. It's an open journal, which is a superior formant and means it's open to everyone who wants to check his experiments, rather than being only available to only a handful of scientists. Also, what about the molten metal that was documented by eye-witnesses and photos, which is a side-effect of thermite? Are we to just deny all of this?

To the OP - amazing story. You're incredibly brave.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 

The only investigations that really matter in the end are official ones. There are clearly enough inconsistencies with the original OS to warrant a new official investigation. A new official investigation won't happen without enough people contacting their representatives and senators to demand one.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Nathan-D
 


The NIST engineers may be lacking when it comes to chemistry.
Thousands of tons of sulfur were available in the drywall dust [gypsum] and the high temperature corrosion would have occurred during the underground fires.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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The Lord's right was invoked so that nobles could sleep with a woman the night of her wedding.

Elites are capable of anything.

Ancient text shows the Lord as a violent being. If you submit to his will then you are safe. According to the first book of Adam and Eve they tried to kill themselves many times over. The Lord kept bringing them backt to torment them. It wasn't until they submitted to his will did he leave them alone for awhile.

If you question the status quo then you are doomed to die a horrible death. Sound familiar in modern times? History has shown that violence is the preferred method in dealing with problems.

One and one is two. Not three. We are a mongrel race of people who are destined to do evil things.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 

What we do know:
Terrorists struck at innocent American citizens.

What we don't know:
Where is Osama Bin Laden. Dead? Alive?

Nothing more to examine.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by pteridine
 



Jones' paper was not peer reviewed by any analytical chemist or it would have not been published. It is fatally flawed on many levels and it is internally inconsistent.
There is no evidence of thermite at the WTC.


The information that you are spreading in here is false.
No one has proved Jones’ paper was flawed, if so you would have posted some credible sources. Jones’ paper was peered reviewed and that is a proven fact.

The only thing you have given about Jones paper in your opinion and nothing else.


Jones is either loathe to admit his errors or is blinded by his desire for celebrity.


Wow, talk about proving someone's assumptions?




[edit on 31-7-2010 by impressme]



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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Great work Airspoon
Your work is the epitome of class as usual.
SandF

I'm wondering why your detractors on this thread have offered not one convincing opinion in comparison to the sheer volume of reasoning you have posted.
The answer to that simple question is:
There is no real proof the OS is true and that is coming from the officials themselves:

Why haven't they indited Osama for any crimes?
Because they haven't got any proof....

When the Taliban offered to turn over OBL up to international justice they asked for reasonable proof he was guilty.

Did the US offer any proof?
No
why?
Because they haven't got any

6 of 10 911 investigation commissioners have stated the investigation itself was a fraud

Colin Powell's 50 now proven lies to the UN

Simple

The OS supporters obfuscate, but the standard of proof they represent wouldn't even convict a blind guy of a parking ticket, and that is from the officials themselves.
I hope the supporters of the OS insist on the same standards of proof when the lynch mob of justice knocks on their door.

I know in any western Clint or Audy or John, or even Mickey Mouse would have filled boot hill with there skinny white butts by the end of the movie.
Minions die hard they say...

Too bad for the millions of innocent dead and dying, but hey, they say they wait for the guilty, and one must pass by then sooner or later on the way to eternity...
Hopefully for the rest of us
Better sooner than later

keep up the good work
IMHO
your posts are among the best here at ATS

[edit on 31-7-2010 by Danbones]



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


1. I haven't read all your posts. HOWEVER, I've read enough to say:

THANK YOU ENORMOUSLY. YOUR NARRATIVE IS ONE OF THE MOST SENSIBLE AND, TO ME, ACCURATE OF ANYTHING I'VE READ ON THE WHOLE TOPIC IN ALL THESE YEARS SINCE.

2. YOUR SACRIFICES AND THE SACRIFICES OF ALL OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL WERE MADE WITH THE BEST VALUES AND INTENTIONS YOU COULD MUSTER. THEY ARE NOT WASTED. THEY ARE NOT EVIL. THEY ARE NOT EVEN MISGUIDED. YOU OPERATED WITH THE BEST INFORMATION YOU HAD AT THE TIME. 2ND GUESSING YOURSELF EVER AFTER IS NOT REASONABLE, NOT FITTING, NOT NECESSARY. You have my eternal admiration and gratitude. May God comfort you and give you His peace. He alone is worthy. He alone is able.

3. Ike's favorite General . . . I forget his name . . . noted that war was a horrific BUSINESS--as in a deliberate for profit BUSINESS--meaning that it was evil from the git-go--and implying that it was ran by evil doers much higher up the food chain than himself. Certainly that is true, as these blokes have asserted for at least 110 years of their playing globalist geo-politics with millions of lives . . . AND AS THEY ARE NOW DOING toward reducing the global population to 200 million by force and deadly mayhem.

www.freerepublic.com...

4. We all have to make life and death decisions from time to time whether it's on the freeway; at the bar; wherever. We can only make them with the best heart-felt eternal values possible or less so. I believe you made the best decisions you could at the time with the info you had. CONGRATS ON THAT--AND THAT YOU DIDN'T WIMP OUT.

5. I think your distillation of what we know of 9/11 is very perceptive and accurate from all I have exposed myself to--a fraction of what you have. THANKS TONS FOR IT.

GOD BE WITH YOU. YOU ARE A RARE HERO WELL DESERVING OF THE NAME.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by airspoon
 

What we do know:
Terrorists struck at innocent American citizens.

What we don't know:
Where is Osama Bin Laden. Dead? Alive?

Nothing more to examine.


Why are we looking for Osama by the way ? He said HE DID NOT do it.
If he did, he sure to say "I did" and might become all Muslim hero. Problem is he said "I did not" even until today.

Who actually do this ?
God punishment and bad karma chase after their families and descendants forever, that might be the wishes of the world, I guess.



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Yeah weedwhacker, the distance is about 12 miles. Close enough for a missile launch.

I can't say with absolute certainty, but the thing in the picture looks a hell of a lot like an anti-missle battery to me. You can even make out what appear to be the launch tubes. Patriot Missile System?

Here's a link with better pictures: cryptome.org...



[edit on 31-7-2010 by mark-in-dallas]



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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Fantastic post. You have clearly laid out the main evidence surrounding this day.

However, I would say this: the PTB, in my opinion, merely allowed this to happen. Perhaps they 'encouraged' it, but I am confident that they got wind of this plot, and ensured that it happened. The evidence that the OP provides I feel supports this - from the presence of the Israelis to the insurance job to the collapse of the other tower which is nowhere near. There are also some reports of workmen in the towers, with suggestions that they were placing the thermite or other explosives in the towers. This again suggests prior knowledge of the attacks and that the PTB made sure that the plan succeeded.

WORD




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