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Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations

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posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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August Cover of Time Magazine - Aisha.
(Video of Photo)


The Taliban pounded on the door just before midnight, demanding that Aisha, 18, be punished for running away from her husband's house. Her in-laws treated her like a slave, Aisha pleaded. They beat her. If she hadn't run away, she would have died. Her judge, a local Taliban commander, was unmoved. Aisha's brother-in-law held her down while her husband pulled out a knife. First he sliced off her ears. Then he started on her nose...




Afghan Women and the Return of the Taliban


"If you sacrifice women to make peace, you are also sacrificing the men who support them and abandoning the country to the fundamentalists that caused all the problems in the first place."


As exit strategies are reviewed, the clear indication that the Afghan Govt. will need to make some sort of peace or treaty or reconciliation with the those aligned with the Taliban seems to be the consensus. For the women in Afghanistan, what will such a reconciliation bring? Some fear it will sideline women's progress and what small momentum they've gained.


"Women's rights must not be the sacrifice by which peace is achieved," says parliamentarian Fawzia Koofi.

Yet that may be where negotiations are heading. The Taliban will be advocating a version of an Afghan state in line with their own conservative views, particularly on the issue of women's rights. Already there is a growing acceptance that some concessions to the Taliban are inevitable if there is to be genuine reconciliation. "You have to be realistic," says a diplomat in Kabul. "We are not going to be sending troops and spending money forever. There will have to be a compromise, and sacrifices will have to be made."


President Karzai was reported to have said at a June conference: "What is more important, protecting the right of a girl to go to school or saving her life?"

It's a good question and one that the Afghan President will have to reconcile as his and the allies answer to negotiations and troop withdrawal will have long lasting consequences for the women of Afghanistan.




posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 


Unfortunately, LadySkadi, this is the type of ignorance you get.

When a country sees one gender more valuable than the other.

Women are treated as property, not as equals, they are a mere commodity.

The only value they hold is to trade to another male for something of value.

More often than not, it's for for farm animals, or for debts owed to another.

It is the lowest form of Human Trafficking there is known.

More often than not it is done by the female's own father for debt payment.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


This is one story out of thousands, but it does emphasize an important, fundamental struggle. Yes, women are (in most cases) considered property and yes there are any number of horrible things happening, but there is a movement gaining slow speed. Women (and some men) are working towards ensuring they have a voice - slow as the progress is - and hopefully, they will continue to fight for their place.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by LadySkadi
 


Unfortunately, LadySkadi, this is the type of ignorance you get.

When a country sees one gender more valuable than the other.

Women are treated as property, not as equals, they are a mere commodity.

The only value they hold is to trade to another male for something of value.

More often than not, it's for for farm animals, or for debts owed to another.

It is the lowest form of Human Trafficking there is known.

More often than not it is done by the female's own father for debt payment.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]


This is what you get when you watch too much propaganda.

Those actions are horrific, and those are all against Islam. The Pashtoons have a very hard culture of respect, loyalty and discipline.

But they are all hardcore Muslim, the solution is easy, teach them the true Islam. But won't happen under the occupation. Do you think they will listen to their enemy? Or listen to their fellow Muslims brothers while their fellow Muslim brothers are fighting along side the invading force?

That is naive.

So they need to leave, let Afghan solve their problems.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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Very sad, but nothing new. Taliban has been doing this for a very long time, and from what it looks like they will continue to do so unless someone stops them.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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Well if it will help why don't people write the Taliban leaders and have them knock this stuff off?

Like it will do any good.

THE TALIBAN :


Alhaj Mullah Mohammad Rabbani
(Chairman of the Taliban Caretaker Council)
Embassy of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan
House No 8, Street No. 90
G-6/3 Islamabad
Pakistan

and

Mullah Mohammad Omar
(leader of the Taliban)
Embassy of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan
House No 8, Street No. 90
G-6/3 Islamabad
Pakistan



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 


The problem comes from the slow progress making a backwards walk.

Taliban Build Multi-Million Dollar Insurgent Operation, Complicating U.S. Efforts

Trafficking in humans, drug trade, and terrorism are rife in Afghanistan.

The Taliban are ultimately our fault.

Not you and I nor any citizen of America but our Government.

If you've read the following book :

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001




Partial Amazon Review :

Steve Coll's Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 offers revealing details of the CIA's involvement in the evolution of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the years before the September 11 attacks.

From the beginning, Coll shows how the CIA's on-again, off-again engagement with Afghanistan after the end of the Soviet war left officials at Langley with inadequate resources and intelligence to appreciate the emerging power of the Taliban.


Or even watched the simplistic Hollywood version called Charlie Wilson's War :

Charlie Wilson's War - Trailer(HD) Tom Hanks, Julia Roberts


You will see that our own Central Intelligence Agency created this mess.

No, they did not create the absurd ownership rites of the Taliban, or Middle East.

They did however, drop the ball, after Operation Cyclone.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Operation Cyclone

Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm, train, and finance the Afghan mujahideen during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989.

The program leaned heavily towards supporting militant Islamic groups that were favored by neighboring Pakistan, rather than other, less ideological Afghan resistance groups that had also been fighting the Marxist-oriented Democratic Republic of Afghanistan regime since before the Soviet intervention.

Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.


If only the C.I.A. and Congress had spent money on school for Afghanistan, we might have a more civil ally, and as well the educational level of the Afghani's might be more modern, instead of backwoods ignorant.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


How does one go about teaching True Islam when there are concessions made for tribal interpretations?

This is the excuse or explanation that is made every time this issue comes up. The atrocieties are explaned away as not being acceptable by Islam, but are (apparently) acceptable per tribal/custom.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by LadySkadi
 


This is what you get when you watch too much propaganda.


Really?

I know the difference between propaganda and outright lies.

There's a subtle difference but not by much.


Originally posted by oozyism
Those actions are horrific, and those are all against Islam. The Pashtoons have a very hard culture of respect, loyalty and discipline.


I never said it had anything to do with Islam, now did I?

All religion's selectively interpret their religious books.

As well, all religions have sects, who selectively do even worse.


Originally posted by oozyism
But they are all hardcore Muslim, the solution is easy, teach them the true Islam. But won't happen under the occupation. Do you think they will listen to their enemy? Or listen to their fellow Muslims brothers while their fellow Muslim brothers are fighting along side the invading force?


I could care less if it is true Islam or false Islam, human trafficking is wrong.


Originally posted by oozyism
That is naive.


No country usually listens to an occupying force ever.

And it is not naive in the least to want education.

We, the United States, should never have been in Afghanistan.

Overt or Covert.

Back during Operation Cyclone nor now.

Leave the Middle East alone.

However, once we were there, we had responsibilities, our Government reneged on.


Originally posted by oozyism
So they need to leave, let Afghan solve their problems.


I could care less about Afghanistan since I see it as useless terrain.

To me personally.

But I see human trafficking, human rights violations, and drug trafficking as bad.

The problem stems not just from the Taliban, Afghanistan, or the Middle East.

It stems from duplicitous foreign policy of America involving ourselves where we're not needed, not wanted, and have zero reason to be, in the first place.

If we wanted the War on Drugs stopped we would go after the source.

Period.

Seeing as the Golden Crescent has been operational for decades, I do not see this happening anytime soon, the same with other areas.

The only naive one here is you.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by oozyism
 


How does one go about teaching True Islam when there are concessions made for tribal interpretations?

This is the excuse or explanation that is made every time this issue comes up. The atrocieties are explaned away as not being acceptable by Islam, but are (apparently) acceptable per tribal/custom.



Afghans never get to sit down and talk about these issues because of political instability. Without political stability other issues can't be solved.

The political instability has existed due to external forces playing their dirty games in Afghanistan.

Heck it was Pakistan which set the trap for USSR in Afghanistan, and it is Pakistan which set the trap for Western powers in Afghanistan.

Afghans are being used as tools to defeat strong enemies.

The education system which the Pashtoons received was backed by Pakistan and the US empire. They memorized the Quran, and the interpretation came from past scholars.

I have a book, which my dad told me to read once, this book is the same book kids in Pashtoonistan reads, and in Peshawer refugee camps where I was.

I read the book, and then I came across a paragraph which claim there was stoning in the Quran, and it even had a damn fake verse in it.

So I went and opened the Quran, and found the chapter, and the verse number, it was completely different.

They invented fake verses, and wrote books claiming it is from the Quran>?

That is the Question, who is behind this false teachings? Yes, the US empire.

Pakistan is as bad as the US to be fair.

I will photocopy the book for ATS to see.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


My reply was only in regards to your first sentence, the rest was directed towards LadySkadi

Second line.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
Or listen to their fellow Muslims brothers while their fellow Muslim brothers are fighting along side the invading force?

That is naive.



Why is it that they are fighting along side that force ooz?
Could it possibly be that they themselves would rather not like the Taliban back in power? Remember it was the Northern Alliance that actually kicked the Taliban to the curb.

Or have we already forgotten that?



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by oozyism
 


How does one go about teaching True Islam when there are concessions made for tribal interpretations?

This is the excuse or explanation that is made every time this issue comes up. The atrocieties are explained away as not being acceptable by Islam, but are (apparently) acceptable per tribal/custom.



While I agree we should end the occupation because were not over there to help as so many think. The problem is the Afghans won't salve their own problems if left alone they will continue to perpetuate this filth. This has been going on for a thousand years and they just perpetuate it. It is extremely difficult to overcome oppression like this with no way to fight it.

I don't know what the answer is for sure but we are not there to help we are their to protect our investment in the poppy fields that is why they don't go in and clean house.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Well, it only looked as if your comment was directed at me, so I am sorry.

Please accept my apology.

Usually I would edit out the difference of opinion and leave it at that.

I think both of us showed we both have knowledge.

Although it sounds as if you have personal knowledge based on firsthand experience.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 




Why is it that they are fighting along side that force ooz?
Could it possibly be that they themselves would rather not like the Taliban back in power? Remember it was the Northern Alliance that actually kicked the Taliban to the curb.

Or have we already forgotten that?


Remember that tentacle thing I always talk about?

Who was supporting Northern Alliance, and who was supporting the Taliban?

External forces support groups to push for their own interests in that region. Yes Northern Alliance didn't want to live under the Taliban, but as I stated in my other post that the political instability was, and is the problem which is stopping Afghans from settling down and solving their differences and issues.

It is war which allows Afghans to read false books, with false teachings, because they have no time, they prioritize the defeat of the occupying force before other issues.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 



While I agree we should end the occupation because were not over there to help as so many think. The problem is the Afghans won't salve their own problems if left alone they will continue to perpetuate this filth. This has been going on for a thousand years and they just perpetuate it. It is extremely difficult to overcome oppression like this with no way to fight it.

I don't know what the answer is for sure but we are not there to help we are their to protect our investment in the poppy fields that is why they don't go in and clean house.


It should end and the ME should be left alone, in a perfect world. However, we all know this isn't a perfect world and the ME is not going to be left alone. That is certainly a larger point to the issue, however womens rights are not and never were a priority. Karzai himself, explains it away as a choice between saving a girl's life and providing for increased rights. It's a smokescreen for not wanting to take a side.



[edit on 30-7-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
External forces support groups to push for their own interests in that region. Yes Northern Alliance didn't want to live under the Taliban, but as I stated in my other post that the political instability was, and is the problem which is stopping Afghans from settling down and solving their differences and issues.


The fighting between the two groups was going long before 9/11 or the invasion. They didn't want to be apart of any Taliban ran Government ooz.
Northern Alliance

The United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan (UIF, Jabha-yi Muttahid-i Islami-yi Milli bara-yi Nijat-i Afghanistan), more commonly known as the Afghan Northern Alliance, was a military-political umbrella organization created by the Islamic State of Afghanistan in 1996. The organization united various ethnic groups of Afghanistan fighting against each other to fight the ethnic Pashtun Taliban instead.

The Northern Alliance included Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Pashtuns and others. Some of these ethnic groups are Shia with smaller numbers of Ismailis.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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Let me remind you that America IS NOT in Afghanistan to protect women.
We are there for MUCH LESS noble causes.

And its too bad we aren't fighting this war for the women's sake...I'd feel
alot better about it.

It's just PRO WAR propaganda, and very handy propaganda I might add,
seeing as how emotional a topic it covers.

Too bad TIME isn't reporting on the rise in birth defects due to depleted
uranium ordinance, or running pictures of dead and maimed children
on the front page caused by coalition force's "collateral damage."
Of course, that propaganda wouldn't be pro-war, and as such wouldn't
fit the agenda of the guys in charge.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by rival

Let me remind you that America IS NOT in Afghanistan to protect women.
We are there for MUCH LESS noble causes.

And its too bad we aren't fighting this war for the women's sake...I'd feel
alot better about it.


No need for this reminder, I believe every one (on ATS) is quite aware of this.


It's just PRO WAR propaganda, and very handy propaganda I might add,
seeing as how emotional a topic it covers.


It is not pro war propaganda to report on the women IN Afghanistan who are working towards furthering womens rights IN Afghanistan. Note that women of Parliament are obviously concerned about the future, not just the poor woman stuck in a tribal village without a voice.


Too bad TIME isn't reporting on the rise in birth defects due to depleted
uranium ordinance, or running pictures of dead and maimed children
on the front page caused by coalition force's "collateral damage."
Of course, that propaganda wouldn't be pro-war, and as such wouldn't
fit the agenda of the guys in charge.


There are many, many other sources doing just that. TIME has chosen to focus on another issue and it is JUST as valid. Do not negate it.



[edit on 30-7-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by rival
 



Look at her face.





She wasn't mutilated for propaganda purposes! She didn't get horribly disfigured by an IED or bomb fragments. Somebody who supposedly loved her took out a knife and in a face to face cut her. Shes a real live human being.




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